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Discussion Starter #1
My Boyfriend and I found the perfect 2019 Camry XSE at Right Toyota in Scottsdale, Arizona. Upon arriving, the sales man showed us the car and we very quickly started to talk numbers. After negotiating for a couple of hours, we provided them with ALL the information they requested. We gave them our social to run our credit and the VIN number for our trade. After reviewing all the information we provided, we agreed on a deal with the sales manager. We went over to the finance manager and we signed all of the paperwork necessary for the new car contract and trade. After everything was signed and the deal was closed we went home with our brand new car.

3 days later I receive a call from the finance manager. He tells me that I need to bring the car in to "verify the VIN number and mileage" I ask if I could send a picture instead and he says "No, we have to verify it with our own eyes for legal purposes" and reassured me a full tank for the inconvenience. My boyfriend was at work so I took the car in by myself. Upon arriving, the finance manager walks me into his office and the sales manager who approved our deal was waiting at his desk. The sales manager then proceeds to tell me that they were backing out of the deal and that they need the new car back because my trade wasn't worth as much as they had paid off. They took the new keys from me and gave me back the old ones even though we had already signed the contract and THE BANK APPROVED the deal. When I went to get the contract out of the glove-box, I caught the finance manager trying to take it! I requested for it back and he kept telling me that it was in the car until I pointed out that it was in his hands.

My boyfriend ends up getting there about an hour later and immediately asked to speak to the general sales manager. We witnessed front desk and sales men notify him through the glass box behind the front desk. Instead of coming over and talking to us, he simply packed his bags and left. We ended up talking to another manager who said he would reach out to us the next day but never did. I contacted him via email and didn't get a response. I, then, called him the following day and he didn't even remember who I was! Since then, all employees have passed the ball around but no one has reached out to us to talk about the issue. They still have the 2019 loan under our name but WE DO NOT HAVE THE CAR.
 

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2008 Highlander Limited, 3.5, JBL
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I would talk to a lawyer about this as soon as possible. Right now, make notes of everything that went on and everyone you talked to because the lawyer will need that for the lawsuit.

Chris
 

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I believe you have the right to back out of the contract for a few days after the purchase. Maybe they have the same right? Regardless, I think it's a really awful thing to do. They led you to the dealership until false pretense.

Remember that even if it's determined that the act of backing out of the contract is legal, these dealerships generally hire people that don't have the proper education to handle potentially grey-area issues like these, so it's possible they did SOMETHING illegal along the way.

I would definitely speak to a lawyer and walk them through everything with as much detail as possible.
 

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2018 Camry XSE V6
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Best to talk to a lawyer. There is a contract that you and the dealer signs called 'sellers right to cancel' that gives the dealer 10 or so days to cancel but usually it's because the finance fell through. Never heard of a dealer take the car back because you 'defrauded' a dealership. Dealer screwed up, not your fault. Also, there is another contract called spot delivery. Dont know much about that but something about giving your the loan but not being approved? I don't know but talk to a lawyer not to a forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Best to talk to a lawyer. There is a contract that you and the dealer signs called 'sellers right to cancel' that gives the dealer 10 or so days to cancel but usually it's because the finance fell through. Never heard of a dealer take the car back because you 'defrauded' a dealership. Dealer screwed up, not your fault.
I saw that and thought maybe they had the right to back out. Then I started to look more into it and found that that was only applicable if the loan didn't get approved. In my case, we were approved. Also, below the 'sellers right to cancel' notice it says that any changes have to be written and no oral changes are permitted. We didn't sign anything when they took the car from us. I've gone to other dealerships and told them about our situation and they are all baffled by it.
 

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Just what Torquin said. They’re screwing you, somebody messed up and they’re trying to take it out on you. Don’t tell me let me guess you’re in your 20s? They’ll try that shit on people they don’t think will come back on them. But of course you’re going to just for the fun of it if nothing else because we all like to mess over thieves. It just takes a little legworkAnd unfortunately most people aren’t willing to do it. Of course the outcome of it all depends on what state you’re in somewhat but I can’t see anyway they can Breach a contract That’s in writing just because somebody screwed up.
Like they say the nickname is Stealerships and it’s that way for a good reason. The majority of them are always your friend until the paper signed .
At this point I would imagine in most states you can just call them up and say look chump here’s the deal. I spoke to a lawyer and we’re going to come and eat you unless you make good on this and give me your tank a gas and maybe something more for lying to you to get you there.
You don’t need a lawyer really at that point you can tell the dealership anything you feel like and then still do exactly whatever you feel like so don’t go out of your way being honest About what you’ve done so far. Let them sweat.
What I would not do is talk to the salesman or the service manager. I would go straight to the dealership owner by passing these morons completely and just tell him what happened stressing that it’s all been signed for in writing and you’d already had the car in your possession . Also let the owner know how the sales manager lied to you to get you to come back in so they could snatch it! Who knows he probably doesn’t even have a clue this ever happened And will likely shake somebody’s tree and make things right for you.
The long and short of it is unless you lied on some of the documentation yourself you have them right by the family jewels. So with that in mind don’t be the slightest bit hesitant to twist.
Tell him you’re going to contact the state attorney general. Also tell them you’re going to contact Toyota corporate.
If everything you say is true I wouldn’t be hesitant to contact the police and at least file a report. It’s almost impossible the DA would prosecute but it does change peoples attitude when when a police man shows up at the door saying “ I have a complaint”. I know, I was one.
One big word of warning here, !!!!!!!don’t you dare let that dealership lay their hands on any of your paperwork!!!!!!!! Feel free to give them copies if they want to play with it but those originals even if it’s your copies and they have the original you don’t let them ever touch !!!! They may well disappear. If that happens there goes your case no matter what you do.



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The sales manager then proceeds to tell me that they were backing out of the deal and that they need the new car back because my trade wasn't worth as much as they had paid off. They took the new keys from me and gave me back the old ones even though we had already signed the contract.
Just my opin, but sales made BIG mistake, didn't honor signed contract & sounds like some intimidation involved. Talk to owner & if he/she doesn't correct mistake made, then contact your states Attorney General Office. Some one will give u directions on how to proceed, might be thru consumer affairs. I did that in my state, but for diff. issue. Also I think lawyer is premature at this time. Good luck on outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Just what Torquin said. They’re screwing you, somebody messed up and they’re trying to take it out on you. Don’t tell me let me guess you’re in your 20s? They’ll try that shit on people they don’t think will come back on them. But of course you’re going to just for the fun of it if nothing else because we all like to mess over thieves. It just takes a little legworkAnd unfortunately most people aren’t willing to do it. Of course the outcome of it all depends on what state you’re in somewhat but I can’t see anyway they can Breach a contract That’s in writing just because somebody screwed up.
Like they say the nickname is Stealerships and it’s that way for a good reason. The majority of them are always your friend until the paper signed .
At this point I would imagine in most states you can just call them up and say look chump here’s the deal. I spoke to a lawyer and we’re going to come and eat you unless you make good on this and give me your tank a gas and maybe something more for lying to you to get you there.
You don’t need a lawyer really at that point you can tell the dealership anything you feel like and then still do exactly whatever you feel like so don’t go out of your way being honest About what you’ve done so far. Let them sweat.
What I would not do is talk to the salesman or the service manager. I would go straight to the dealership owner by passing these morons completely and just tell him what happened stressing that it’s all been signed for in writing and you’d already had the car in your possession . Also let the owner know how the sales manager lied to you to get you to come back in so they could snatch it! Who knows he probably doesn’t even have a clue this ever happened And will likely shake somebody’s tree and make things right for you.
The long and short of it is unless you lied on some of the documentation yourself you have them right by the family jewels. So with that in mind don’t be the slightest bit hesitant to twist.
Tell him you’re going to contact the state attorney general. Also tell them you’re going to contact Toyota corporate.
If everything you say is true I wouldn’t be hesitant to contact the police and at least file a report. It’s almost impossible the DA would prosecute but it does change peoples attitude when when a police man shows up at the door saying “ I have a complaint”. I know, I was one.
One big word of warning here, !!!!!!!don’t you dare let that dealership lay their hands on any of your paperwork!!!!!!!! Feel free to give them copies if they want to play with it but those originals even if it’s your copies and they have the original you don’t let them ever touch !!!! They may well disappear. If that happens there goes your case no matter what you do.
Yes, we are in our early 20's... We have been 100% completely honest with everything. The only thing that might be considered dishonest is that we didn't flat out say we were in a car accident but not because we were trying to hide it from them. We provided our VIN number for the trade and just assumed they ran the carfax like every other dealership previously had. This is the only reason why we feel a little hesitant. We didn't have the trade with us the day of the deal and turned it in the following day but before signing the contract I did ask the salesman what would happen if they found any type of damage on the trade once I brought it in (there was no damage, everything had been fixed but was asking just in case there was a crack in the windshield or scuffed rims) and he said not to say anything at all because the deal was done. Were we wrong for assuming they ran the carfax?
 

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My thoughts on this:


The contract is still in full force until it is unilaterally or bilaterally canceled (even if don’t have your copy). If the car was financed (not leased) it is legally YOUR property. They’ve just sequestered your property.

Normally, they should unilaterally cancel the contract in writing (if they legally can). After that they should legally collect the property.

The owner’s contract copy is also YOUR property! That property, aparently, was also sequestered by force.

You already received pertinent advice here:

Take detailed notes;
Stop talking to the dealer;
See a lawyer immediatelly;
Talk to the lawyer about focibly sequestered property, and if it’s legally the case, declare it right away, in writing, to the police.

If you did all in good faith, you have nothing to be affraid of. Go after them and make the pay for the way they managed this. Go after a settlement. The lawyer will guide you best.


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You mentioned AZ. Might start here;
I went almost the same thing here in Ca. Once I notifed the dealer that I had filed a formal comlaint with the State attorney General by providing the casee # they contacted me a few days later with a better deal to retract my formal complaint. Maybe i got lucky, but telling the State cost nothing and got their attention!
Also, many consumer Attoneys offer free consultations if you want to purse legal action.
 

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The dealer has no legal right to cancel the contract and sale as you described it.

One other remedy you might pursue is to contact the consumer affairs reporter at the local TV stations and see if they are interested in getting involved. They usually love stories like this, and if they do get involved the dealer will usually back down.

If it were me, I would have called the police as soon as they tried to take my new car back and report it as stolen.
 

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Yes, we are in our early 20's... We have been 100% completely honest with everything. The only thing that might be considered dishonest is that we didn't flat out say we were in a car accident but not because we were trying to hide it from them. We provided our VIN number for the trade and just assumed they ran the carfax like every other dealership previously had. This is the only reason why we feel a little hesitant. We didn't have the trade with us the day of the deal and turned it in the following day but before signing the contract I did ask the salesman what would happen if they found any type of damage on the trade once I brought it in (there was no damage, everything had been fixed but was asking just in case there was a crack in the windshield or scuffed rims) and he said not to say anything at all because the deal was done. Were we wrong for assuming they ran the carfax?
ok, recently i was searching for another lease. i had a '17 camry..i went to that dealership, and yes, they verified the VIN and miles as i looked on. but i did not go for that deal they offered me.

then i went to another dealership, same procedures. so yes, it is NORMAL to check the VIN and miles in person.

my question is, both of you are in your early 20's as you say..was your trade in car legit?? meaning maybe you unknowingly bought a stolen car or a flood damaged car, or a salvage car, and THAT showed up on carfax or a VIN check?

maybe there were some stolen parts used in the repair of your trade in car..???

otherwise, i personally never heard of this, and i have bought more cars than many here have been alive.
 

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Ashsalg.....Curious, do u have your signed sales contract ?
 

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The only thing that might be considered dishonest is that we didn't flat out say we were in a car accident but not because we were trying to hide it from them.
I thought about false representation on your part. Not disclosing important things about the condition of the property sold (your original car) could be regarded as a hidden (latent) defect not declared in the sale process. But that’s specific to real estate transactions...I don’t know if works the same in car transactions. Even so, the dealer’s appraisal should have been done upon inspection before signing the deal and that’s on them!




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Discussion Starter #17
ok, recently i was searching for another lease. i had a '17 camry..i went to that dealership, and yes, they verified the VIN and miles as i looked on. but i did not go for that deal they offered me.

then i went to another dealership, same procedures. so yes, it is NORMAL to check the VIN and miles in person.

my question is, both of you are in your early 20's as you say..was your trade in car legit?? meaning maybe you unknowingly bought a stolen car or a flood damaged car, or a salvage car, and THAT showed up on carfax or a VIN check?

maybe there were some stolen parts used in the repair of your trade in car..???

otherwise, i personally never heard of this, and i have bought more cars than many here have been alive.
The trade was new when I leased through camelback toyota. All repairs have been professionally done. I have a copy of the carfax and the only thing that comes up is structural damage from the minor accident 5 months ago. The only reason structural damage was reported was because they changed the right rear panel that is attached to the frame and, unfortunately, carfax reads that as structural damage. No actual structural damage is on the car. I have all paperwork from the repair shop that disputes structural damage. My pay off amount on the trade was 15. Camelback offered 10 and Larry H Miller offered 13, both with the carfax in hand. What closed the deal with Right Toyota was that they were paying off the whole 15. But apparently they didn't check the carfax until 3 days after the deal was done and approved.
 

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This is just my personal opinion but I think they believe they can get away with it because youre young. Once the prices are negitiated and contracts signed that should be a done deal. The only reason ive ever heard for dealer taking a new car back is the finance company backed out on the deal, and I think thats shady too. As far as the carfax report that should have been taken into consideration before the deal was made. I'm surprised they didn't say if you wanted to come up with $2000 down payment you could keep the car. Ive head of that happening before too. Still a shady situation. Good luck.


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I thought about false representation on your part. Not disclosing important things about the condition of the property sold (your original car) could be regarded as a hidden (latent) defect not declared in the sale process. But that’s specific to real estate transactions...I don’t know if works the same in car transactions. Even so, the dealer’s appraisal should have been done upon inspection before signing the deal and that’s on them!
In real estate transactions, disclosure of defects is generally governed by state law, and generally only apply to defects not observable via a normal inspection. Defects also include known defects in the title, or other pending legal matters. But exceptions may apply depending on the state. Generally the defect disclosure form has to be signed by both seller and buyer.

With regard to the sale of an auto by a consumer, generally no disclosure is required. However, if asked a question, the seller must respond truthfully. If a vehicle is sold by someone in the business of selling cars, then they must disclose most defects they know about, even if not asked about them. But again, this can vary somewhat by state law.

In this case, the seller of the used car claims that the Carfax is not accurate, and no real structural damage previously occurred (the damage was minor and mis-classified). That is still a problem for the car dealer, because a subsequent buyer is likely to see that the Carfax says there was structural damage. But if the dealer did not ask about this, and the seller (consumer) did not deceive the buyer (dealer) in response to a question, the seller (consumer) is not generally not liable.
 

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This is just my personal opinion but I think they believe they can get away with it because youre young.
They think they can get away with it because they have possession of the car, and it has not been titled yet. And also that it would be expensive for the consumer to hire a lawyer.
 
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