[aaronvincent]

So on the way to have my bearings changed my corolla started knocking. At least at first I thought the engine was knocking, but after a day of checking the motor all over and driving it in varying conditions I'm confused. The noise only happens after driving for awhile, maybe 15 minutes or so which leads me to believe it's not the dreaded death knock but maybe an accessory failure. I stuffed my head into the engine bay while the car was running and the sound appears to come from the water pump/timing belt tensioner area. Also knocking doesn't usually just come and go for no reason with no ill effects on the engine (or idle) so what could this be? Has anyone heard anything like this before? Do you think maybe it's my timing belt tensioner?

I attempted to add my youtube vid but toyotanation is throwing a hissy fit (basically every time I use this website actually). But anyway here it is

 

[Pete Suhman]

Perhaps the knocking correlates to your power steering problem.

 

[Chris94]

How old is the water pump itself?

 

[Anthony Wendt]

start taking off all the belts one at a time and start the car. don't sound like rod knock thank god.

 

[aaronvincent]

The water pump is 8 months old so I wouldn't think that's it, it better not be anyway. I think it's the timing belt tensioner, pretty much all of the vids I looked up on bad tensioners sound like this and produce the same symptoms. I did the belt test already with no change in results which is kinda good because the tensioner is isolated from the belts so it would make no change. I originally thought it was knocking so I did the spark plug test to isolate the cylinder but no change there. I also used a huge screwdriver to put on my ear and listen to the source, none of the accessories were the issue. Unfortunately I can't put the screwdriver on the tensioner so I'm going to take it to the mechanic on Friday and have them look at it. I don't have the tools to replace it so I might have to actually pay someone for this job,

 

[DannoXYZ]

there's only 3-4 small bolts holding the plastic cover over the timing-belt cover. Takes 5-minutes to remove and you're at the tensioner!

 

[phillcaldina]

Hey guys, you might try locating a noise the old way, using a 4 foot length of garden hose, get someone to poke one end around the engine, while you stand back and have the other end on your ear, and or a length of broom stick if you are on your own, just hold the end of the broom stick in a fist, and hold your fist against your ear, then touch the other end on the motor. surprising how anyone can listen to each injector, each tappet, listen for nosy water pump, alternator, big end, ect,

Also if you have a noise anywhere outside the car, and you can't define where it is coming from, grab a 15 foot long length of garden hose, a few electrical ties, some tape, and attach one to ?? front wheel bearing, or a suspension component, shock, tie rod end, ???. where ever, and tape the hose to the car, and run it inside so you can get it to your ear, and drive,

 

[aaronvincent]

there's only 3-4 small bolts holding the plastic cover over the timing-belt cover. Takes 5-minutes to remove and you're at the tensioner!

Ahhh but then I gotta remove all that tension off the tensioner and fish it out at some insane angle. Then I gotta re-install it and somehow re-tension it. Not to mention the crankshaft pulley that I have to remove just to get to all of that, those things never come off without a show lol. If I had all the tools and a proper write-up I'd give it a go but I haven't found any good tensioner replacement threads for 7th gen corollas sadly. I need the pictures because I'm autistic, some call it being a visual learner I don't want to let the car make that noise for too long so I'm hoping to get it fixed pretty soon. Guess I'm going to keep looking for a how to with good pics!

 

[Pete Suhman]

*I think* that you can get at the tensioner through the top and middle covers. I'm pretty sure you won't need to remove the crank pulley. Remove the passenger front wheel and splash-shield, and you'll have decent access.

 

[DrZ]

I'm confused. In the video the tensioner is exposed, so the 2nd timing belt cover isn't on. How did you get it off, or do you never have it on? It seems that you could change the tensioner. The hard part would be putting the spring back on with the belt installed. The spring just holds the belt at the proper tension. Once you tighten the tensioner down, then the spring doesn't do anything.

 

[firstclutch]

I recently changed the water pump on mine, I have the same engine....

The middle cover comes off easily if you can manage to get the pulley off the PS pump, but for that you need an offset 10 mm wrench.

Anyways, it sounds the worst close to the PS pump so let's start there just for simplicity sake -
Removing the PS belt is easy but once you do, you need to situate it out of the way so it doesn't get caught in the other belt that wraps around the water pump pulley. That is kind of the "Bubba" way of doing it but it is real important you find a way to rig it out of the way, it wont come out completely since the alternator/water pump belt is in the way.

If there is still noise, that means it is not the PS pump. So then you have to remove to alternator belt to eliminate it being the water pump.

It seems doubtful that it is the timing belt tensioner and trust me, it is not easy to get to anyways. Yes you could loosen the bolt holding it down and it will take tension off but then you cannot run the engine. Plus, reinstalling it isn't any fun, that stupid spring falls off easily during the initial installation.

You do know if you take it to a mechanic, they are going to want to do more work than what the car is worth.

As far as finding s good visual guide, good luck with that.

 

[aaronvincent]

You can see my tensioner because the middle timing cover has always been missing since I got the car. Some people run without a cover altogether so I figure this is okay. The PO probably forgot to install it or something

The mechanic I take the Corolla to is local place that gives me a pretty decent discount because of the business I bring them, it won't be too bad but still sucks to keep paying money into this old thing. We have an understanding about car repair so they don't rake me over the coals every time I go in lol. Basically I supply the part and the shop takes a little longer to finish the job (maybe a day) and I pay a good bit less than half price. I bought the tensioner from Koyo so it'll be here on the 25th. I'm going to actually give replacing the tensioner a try before I take it to them just because I like to do my own repairs (an sav dee monies). I figure I'll rent a crankshaft pulley tool from one of the McGarbage parts stores and see how far I get. Why not right? At minimum you guys will get pics at least lol

 

[crowenator]

Theres a brass fitting right behind the power steering pump between it and the firewall, that connects a metal line to a rubber hose. See if its not coming from that fitting, try lifintg up on it some and see if it quietens down. I had a very similar knocking sound like this just a couple months ago, turned out to be a long bolt that went through the powersteering pump (one of 3) had walked itself damn near 100% of the way out. Popped the bolt back in, had to push up on the pump from under the engine bay to get it to go back in, but lo and behold I fired it up, heard of squeal for a few seconds as proper tension was applied to the belts / pump w/e, and it went away, and off I went, no more knocking sound. Wish ya luck!

 

[firstclutch]

The purpose of the timing covers is to prevent crap from getting into the timing belt and sprockets.
It is not air tight by any means but still does the job.
The reason the middle one is missing is because it is a PITA to get back in unless the water pump pulley is off. The PO probably just didnt want to dick with it.

As far as removing the crank pulley - yeah you will probably need a puller of some sort, I just used a steering wheel puller I have laying around. The crap part is that the threads for the puller bolts were rusted to hell so I had to "tap" the bolts in, you may want to get a pair of identical bolts for the sole purpose of they will probably get ruined.

To be honest, I cannot imagine the tensioner making that kind of racket. Does the timing belt wobble?

And not to get into personal stuff but with the whole "autistic" thing - you do realize that in the late 90's they started using that label very loosely? What better way to control the little bastards and milk the parents for a few bucks than by telling them their kid is messed up?
I have seen and also work with a guy who has REAL autism. It has nothing to do with little Johnny not wanting to sit still in class.

 

[Haloruler64]

I don't know what kind of tensioner the 7A-FE uses, but I know the oil driven 1ZZ-FE tensioner can make a REAL racket when worn. I can't say whether that sounds like a tensioner, but when revved, the engine does sound pretty healthy.

Autism, medically, isn't really overused. It's a spectrum. It's arguable whether the low end of the spectrum is real developmental problems or just how a kid is, not in a bad way. Some people are just different. I can be a total idiot in many ways and screw everything up, yet I was amazing in school simply because my mind functions a certain way and school was a game I knew how to win.

 

[94RollaDad]

The tensioner has greased bearings. I've never heard what a bad one sounds like but as an unqualified guess I'd think a worn one would start squealing badly not knocking badly. But I don't know really.

I agree re: firstclutch's comment on the timing belt cover. It's not there to look pretty - it has a function and it's to keep debris and gunk out. I'd get it replaced. It is painful to both remove and install but it's doable if you bend it and pray it doesn't crack... On the other hand with your current setup a tiny pebble could leave you with a snapped timing belt if it gets in there.

I didn't need a puller to get the crank pulley off but I could see it being needed if it's been more exposed to the elements and for longer than mine had been. The crank sprocket on the other hand required quite a bit of prying to get out.

 

[aaronvincent]

I took the car to the mechanic this morning who also believes it's the timing belt tensioner, he said when they go some of them can make an AWFUL noise. Not all of them but some of them can begin to "knock". He actually referred me to a youtube vid as proof (which I'll add below). I really hope it's the tensioner because if it's not I refuse to put another motor in this car, the car itself is getting too worn out to be doing those kinds of repairs. Since I'm waiting for the tensioner in the meantime I guess I'll see if I can get a middle timing belt cover from the PnP, it'll give me a chance to try out the pulley puller lol. I hate crankshaft pulleys! I really hated how the timing belt cover was missing ever since I got it, it's just aesthetically unpleasing to me. What leads me to follow the tensioner theory is how healthy the engine sounds when I goose it (like Halo mentioned). If it didn't sound so normal I'd say knock but it just sounds too normal to be that. I checked the brass fitting that crowenator mentioned and it was still nice and tight so no luck there.

On the autism thing they tried for years to get me to take medication because I met more than the standard amount of issues to be on the spectrum. I was eventually diagnosed with "high functioning" autism. Originally they thought it was Asperger's because of my complete lack of communication skills and the fact that I had every single red flag for the syndrome. My father also has AS. I have trouble relegating my humor, as in I just say what I think is funny even though most of it is messed up. I get obsessive over mechanical repair and knowledge in general (OCD obsessing about my engine) and of course the whole strong reaction to random textures and stimuli. That one is a bitch. I have a bad tenancy to be in my head more often than the real world as well, even to this day I catch myself just staring off sometimes. I don't usually make eye contact either and in my job I get a lot of flak for this but I can't help it. My parents refused the pills and instead told me to focus on what I liked, which happened to be cars so I started learning about cars. My thought process allows me to work on a lot of complicated mechanics and understand how it functions but it also takes away an amount of humanity. I have no compassion for people to an extent and I can't express the way I truly feel, basically that means I don't understand their emotions. I was very happy to find the internet some years ago because here's a place I can go that avoids those restrictions. A place of knowledge. So I promise I'm not just messing around and making autism jokes, I'm one of the people that actually suffer from it. I know it has been hideously misdiagnosed in MANY people over the years but not this time sadly. I'm a private person so I don't talk too much about if at all but it does make things a bit more challenging when you can't even talk to other people. Some say it's a joke, some say it can be fixed, some people are just assholes about it. Whichever way you look at it I still have the afflictions as of today and I was told of them before I even knew I did them. I didn't even know about it until the mid 2000's when a teacher asked me about my "disabilities" and then asked my parents. Imagine being told you're a retard basically, at least that's the way I was treated. Anyway I've ranted now and probably made myself look stupid but I had to so people didn't think I was just being rude. Here's that vid of the tensioner failing

 

[Haloruler64]

If you've gotten this far on your own, you're functional enough I'd say. You're talented at mechanics and have a dark but funny sense of humor. Good enough for me to buy you a pint.

 

[aaronvincent]

Better safe than sorry, don't want people to think I make fun of disabled people in public lol.

The local auto store rents out the crankshaft puller for $30 and I get it all back after I return it (after 3 days) so that should work out. Going to go to the PnP on Sunday to look for timing belt covers and then on Monday I plan to do the tensioner. If I succeed I'll only be out $35! Whoo

 

[Pete Suhman]

I took the car to the mechanic this morning who also believes it's the timing belt tensioner, he said when they go some of them can make an AWFUL noise. Not all of them but some of them can begin to "knock". He actually referred me to a youtube vid as proof (which I'll add below). I really hope it's the tensioner because if it's not I refuse to put another motor in this car, the car itself is getting too worn out to be doing those kinds of repairs. Since I'm waiting for the tensioner in the meantime I guess I'll see if I can get a middle timing belt cover from the PnP, it'll give me a chance to try out the pulley puller lol. I hate crankshaft pulleys! I really hated how the timing belt cover was missing ever since I got it, it's just aesthetically unpleasing to me. What leads me to follow the tensioner theory is how healthy the engine sounds when I goose it (like Halo mentioned). If it didn't sound so normal I'd say knock but it just sounds too normal to be that. I checked the brass fitting that crowenator mentioned and it was still nice and tight so no luck there.

On the autism thing they tried for years to get me to take medication because I met more than the standard amount of issues to be on the spectrum. I was eventually diagnosed with "high functioning" autism. Originally they thought it was Asperger's because of my complete lack of communication skills and the fact that I had every single red flag for the syndrome. My father also has AS. I have trouble relegating my humor, as in I just say what I think is funny even though most of it is messed up. I get obsessive over mechanical repair and knowledge in general (OCD obsessing about my engine) and of course the whole strong reaction to random textures and stimuli. That one is a bitch. I have a bad tenancy to be in my head more often than the real world as well, even to this day I catch myself just staring off sometimes. I don't usually make eye contact either and in my job I get a lot of flak for this but I can't help it. My parents refused the pills and instead told me to focus on what I liked, which happened to be cars so I started learning about cars. My thought process allows me to work on a lot of complicated mechanics and understand how it functions but it also takes away an amount of humanity. I have no compassion for people to an extent and I can't express the way I truly feel, basically that means I don't understand their emotions. I was very happy to find the internet some years ago because here's a place I can go that avoids those restrictions. A place of knowledge. So I promise I'm not just messing around and making autism jokes, I'm one of the people that actually suffer from it. I know it has been hideously misdiagnosed in MANY people over the years but not this time sadly. I'm a private person so I don't talk too much about if at all but it does make things a bit more challenging when you can't even talk to other people. Some say it's a joke, some say it can be fixed, some people are just assholes about it. Whichever way you look at it I still have the afflictions as of today and I was told of them before I even knew I did them. I didn't even know about it until the mid 2000's when a teacher asked me about my "disabilities" and then asked my parents. Imagine being told you're a retard basically, at least that's the way I was treated. Anyway I've ranted now and probably made myself look stupid but I had to so people didn't think I was just being rude. Here's that vid of the tensioner failing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f71QFaq7kKQ

Maybe you and people like you are normal, and everyone else is stupid and needy. Those school shrinks would never tell you and your parents that, even if they could fathom the possibility...