Toyota Nation Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts
M
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?
 
?

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:40:11 -0800, morpheus777 wrote:

> I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that one
> should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips of less
> than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my trips are
> below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can I conclude
> that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?


A lot of things happen to a car that is driven infrequently or for short
drives.

One thing is the oil has a tendancy to acidify. Actually, this happens
whether you're driving 5 miles or 500 miles at a time.

The combustion process creates water. On drives over 5 miles, the exhaust
system gets good and hot, so any water in the system is evaporated and
expelled as steam. On drives under 5 miles, the exhaust system doesn't get
hot enough to dissipate the steam, and the water stays in the exhaust and
rots it out. Good thing Toyota has a Lifetime Warranty on their
replacement exhausts...my Mom is on her thrid on on her Camry, and it only
has 85,000 miles on it. The first one, she paid for, the other two havs
been freebies, because she only drives 5-7 miles at a time.

Also, anitfreeze doesn't fully get up to temp. Antifreeze kind of 'cleans'
itself at temp, this isn't happening if it isn't getting hot enough.

I would stick to the rule of thumb...3,000 miles for oil, 24 months or
24,000 miles on antifreeze, and the same for ATF if you have an automatic.
 
J

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
> one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
> of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
> trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
> I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?
>


Sort of yes and no. I mean, it obviously wouldn't hurt to have oil changes
MORE often, but I wouldn't obsess about it. Per my mechanic: "You wanna go
6-7 thousand - fine. If you're planning to forget for 10,000 miles, bad
idea". Reason: It's a good idea for the underside of any car to be looked at
with a bright light on a regular basis. The most likely time this will
happen is during oil changes. Of course, this assumes you are taking the
vehicle to a real mechanic, not the instant oil change places where they
simply don't take the time to look a car over, and often hire people who
have zero mechanical experience.
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
>I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
> one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
> of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
> trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
> I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?


Us a synthetic oil and the 5000 mile interval will not apply to you. At the
very least, use a synthetic blend oil.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
"Mark A" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> >I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
>> one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
>> of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
>> trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
>> I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?

>
> Us a synthetic oil and the 5000 mile interval will not apply to you. At
> the very least, use a synthetic blend oil.


You can NEVER change you oil too often. Oil changes are cheap, cheap, cheap
compared to the cost of a premature engine failure.



>
>
 
?

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:39:38 +0000, sharx35 wrote:

>
> "Mark A" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> >I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
>>> one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
>>> of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
>>> trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
>>> I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?

>>
>> Us a synthetic oil and the 5000 mile interval will not apply to you. At
>> the very least, use a synthetic blend oil.

>
> You can NEVER change you oil too often. Oil changes are cheap, cheap,
> cheap compared to the cost of a premature engine failure.


One of the few times I completely agree with you!
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 21:07:06 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:40:11 -0800, morpheus777 wrote:
>
>> I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that one
>> should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips of less
>> than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my trips are
>> below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can I conclude
>> that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?

>
>A lot of things happen to a car that is driven infrequently or for short
>drives.
>
>One thing is the oil has a tendancy to acidify. Actually, this happens
>whether you're driving 5 miles or 500 miles at a time.
>
>The combustion process creates water. On drives over 5 miles, the exhaust
>system gets good and hot, so any water in the system is evaporated and
>expelled as steam. On drives under 5 miles, the exhaust system doesn't get
>hot enough to dissipate the steam, and the water stays in the exhaust and
>rots it out. Good thing Toyota has a Lifetime Warranty on their
>replacement exhausts...my Mom is on her thrid on on her Camry, and it only
>has 85,000 miles on it. The first one, she paid for, the other two havs
>been freebies, because she only drives 5-7 miles at a time.
>
>Also, anitfreeze doesn't fully get up to temp. Antifreeze kind of 'cleans'
>itself at temp, this isn't happening if it isn't getting hot enough.


This is a new one. How does antifreeze cleans itself ? Never heard of
that. Not saying it isn't true but....

>
>I would stick to the rule of thumb...3,000 miles for oil, 24 months or
>24,000 miles on antifreeze, and the same for ATF if you have an automatic.


with 5 miles or less I would definitely stick to the 3000 mile oil
change.
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
"RT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>>
>>Also, anitfreeze doesn't fully get up to temp. Antifreeze kind of 'cleans'
>>itself at temp, this isn't happening if it isn't getting hot enough.

>
> This is a new one. How does antifreeze cleans itself ? Never heard of
> that. Not saying it isn't true but....
>


I have never heard of antifreeze cleaning itself either...

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 
?

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:29:08 -0600, Ray O wrote:

>
> "RT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>>
>>>Also, anitfreeze doesn't fully get up to temp. Antifreeze kind of
>>>'cleans' itself at temp, this isn't happening if it isn't getting hot
>>>enough.

>>
>> This is a new one. How does antifreeze cleans itself ? Never heard of
>> that. Not saying it isn't true but....
>>
>>

> I have never heard of antifreeze cleaning itself either...



It tends to rid itself of contaminents better at full temp.
 
B

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Hachiroku ��ロク wrote:
>
>
> It tends to rid itself of contaminents better at full temp.


Coolant?

Where do the contaminants go?
 
?

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 07:46:36 -0500, B A R R Y wrote:

> Hachiroku ��ロク wrote:
>>
>>
>> It tends to rid itself of contaminents better at full temp.

>
> Coolant?
>
> Where do the contaminants go?



Instead of being allowed to fester in a closed system, they have a
tendancy to blow out of the overflow bottle as a gas. We're not talking
rust here...
 
B

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Hachiroku ��ロク wrote:
>
> Instead of being allowed to fester in a closed system, they have a
> tendancy to blow out of the overflow bottle as a gas. We're not talking
> rust here...


Thanks, I never realized that.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
"ToMh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
>> one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
>> of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
>> trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
>> I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?

>
> How much did you pay for your car? You don't need to answer, my point
> being that
> oil changes every 3K is cheap insurance. Never knew anybody that every
> had an oil related problem that changed their oil every 3-4k. I do it
> every 3K, which means by the time I get around to it, it's more like
> 3500-4500.
> Also realize that by definition, most cars, especially cars used for
> commuters, Soccer Mom's etc. fall into the shorter time interval for
> changing oil. Waiting 7500 to change your oil will almost certainly
> mean you will forgot once in a while and go way over. Not worth the
> risk, no matter what the Mfg says.


We agree on oil changes, if nothing else.

>
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:53:36 GMT, "sharx35" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"ToMh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
>>> one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
>>> of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
>>> trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
>>> I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?

>>
>> How much did you pay for your car? You don't need to answer, my point
>> being that
>> oil changes every 3K is cheap insurance. Never knew anybody that every
>> had an oil related problem that changed their oil every 3-4k. I do it
>> every 3K, which means by the time I get around to it, it's more like
>> 3500-4500.
>> Also realize that by definition, most cars, especially cars used for
>> commuters, Soccer Mom's etc. fall into the shorter time interval for
>> changing oil. Waiting 7500 to change your oil will almost certainly
>> mean you will forgot once in a while and go way over. Not worth the
>> risk, no matter what the Mfg says.

>
>We agree on oil changes, if nothing else.
>




Yes....liberals are not always wrong....except in their politics....


--

Scott in Florida
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
On 22 Jan 2007 08:50:18 -0800, "ToMh" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>[email protected] wrote:
>> I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
>> one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
>> of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
>> trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
>> I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?

>
>How much did you pay for your car? You don't need to answer, my point
>being that
>oil changes every 3K is cheap insurance. Never knew anybody that every
>had an oil related problem that changed their oil every 3-4k. I do it
>every 3K, which means by the time I get around to it, it's more like
>3500-4500.
>Also realize that by definition, most cars, especially cars used for
>commuters, Soccer Mom's etc. fall into the shorter time interval for
>changing oil. Waiting 7500 to change your oil will almost certainly
>mean you will forgot once in a while and go way over. Not worth the
>risk, no matter what the Mfg says.


soccer moms maybe, but the average commute for working people is over
30 minutes these days. I would think that's more than enough to burn
off any moisture or what have you in the oil.

I never forget oil changes. I make an estimate when the next one is
due and I am usually pretty close to when it is needed.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
[email protected] wrote:
> I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
> one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
> of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
> trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
> I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?


Do you have longer trips interspersed among the short trips?

You need to get the engine hot in order for the water in the oil to burn
off. The water accumulates much more in cold weather, hence the
"temperature below freezing" caveat. Even in non-cold weather, if you
never take any longer trips, and never get the engine up to the normal
operating temperature, then you should opt for the 5000 mile interval.

As with all newer vehicles, 3000 mile oil changes have no benefit, and
are a waste of money, besides being bad for the environment.

If you're unsure, do the 5000 mile interval. This is what most mechanics
recommend these days. No one does 3000 mile changes anymore.
 
T

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
On Jan 24, 11:34 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that
> > one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips
> > of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my
> > trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can
> > I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?Do you have longer trips interspersed among the short trips?

>
> You need to get the engine hot in order for the water in the oil to burn
> off. The water accumulates much more in cold weather, hence the
> "temperature below freezing" caveat. Even in non-cold weather, if you
> never take any longer trips, and never get the engine up to the normal
> operating temperature, then you should opt for the 5000 mile interval.
>
> As with all newer vehicles, 3000 mile oil changes have no benefit, and
> are a waste of money, besides being bad for the environment.
>
> If you're unsure, do the 5000 mile interval. This is what most mechanics
> recommend these days. No one does 3000 mile changes anymore.


I'm sure you're right about 5K being sufficient, but every mechanic,
every dealership and every lube place, I've ever used recommends 3K oil
changes. I've used 3 different Toyota dealerships, and every one puts
you on a 3K schedule. Not one follows the Mfg recommendation.
Probably more because they want to see you more often, but I have yet
to find any place that changes oil recommend anything other than the 3k
interval.
 
C

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says
>> that one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes
>> "Repeated trips of less than 5 miles in temperatures below
>> freezing". A majority of my trips are below 5 miles, but the
>> temprature is well above freezing. Can I conclude that the
>> 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?

>
> Sort of yes and no. I mean, it obviously wouldn't hurt to have oil
> changes MORE often, but I wouldn't obsess about it. Per my mechanic:
> "You wanna go 6-7 thousand - fine. If you're planning to forget for
> 10,000 miles, bad idea". Reason: It's a good idea for the underside
> of any car to be looked at with a bright light on a regular basis.
> The most likely time this will happen is during oil changes. Of
> course, this assumes you are taking the vehicle to a real mechanic,
> not the instant oil change places where they simply don't take the
> time to look a car over, and often hire people who have zero
> mechanical experience.


I noticed that for many recent US models, Toyota is going to a 5000
mile oil change interval across the board (no normal / severe service
split). This certainly should make it clear for most owners of newer
Toyotas. You might consider this when deciding on the correct oil
change interval for your older Toyota. My SO's new RAV4 has an oil
change reminder light - a very good idea.

For most of my life I have been a 3000 mile oil change sort of guy. In
my heart I know this is excessive but it is hard to break old habits.
The 3000 mile change recommendation has been around since the 50's.
BUT - today oil is better, fuel injection systems have greatly reduced
rich fuel mixtures that could wash down the cylinder walls and
contaminate the oil, good PCV systems reduce the contamination of the
crankcase and help remove water, better air filters have reduced oil
contamination, better cooling systems have resulted in more consistent
engine temperatures, etc., etc. On the other hand modern engines
typically run at higher temperatures(to reduce hydrocarbon emissions),
rev higher, and run at higher peak cylinder pressures. These factors
mostly increase the stress on the oil. However, when all factors are
taken together, oil should last much longer than it did even 30 years
ago. Vehicle manufacturers know this. Outside the US, oil change
intervals are typically much longer (in Europe gasoline powered Toyota
models have 10,000 mile oil change intervals). If you think things
through, you may conclude that a 5000 mile oil change interval is
conservative (at least for well designed engines). You should also
consider the alleged Toyota sludge problems. If you do decide to go
with the 7500 mile normal service oil change intervals, you may be
accused of abusing your car in the unlikely event you have a sludge
problem. I would not go past 7500 mile under any circumstances so as
to avoid any potential warranty issues. It is my opinion that for the
sort of driving you described, the 5000 mile change interval is
conservative (assuming you are using quality oil and a decent filter).

People recommending shorter intervals, like 3000 miles, fall into
several categories - 1) people who change it that often because Daddy
did it that way; 2) people who believe that constantly changing the
oil will make the engine last much longer; 3) people who profit from
the oil change industry. The oil change indicators being installed on
many new cars are a great idea. Some are simple mileage counters that
remind you to change your oil at regular intervals (the Toyota system
is like this). Other actually alter the change interval based on
driving patterns (GM's system and some Fords). There have been
attempts to design systems that actually measure the quality of the
oil (Daimler has been working on this), but as far as I know none of
these systems are in use in the US. I owned one car, a Saturn, with
the GM system. According to the owner's guide the maximum interval was
7500 miles. The system would reduce the interval based on a number of
factors. I had a hard time waiting for the system to indicated I
needed to change the oil. I never actually waited until the light came
on. The most I did was 7000 miles. When I did change the oil, I
collected a sample and sent it to Blackstone Labs for analysis.
Blackstone said not only was the oil in good shape, it was good for at
least another 3000 miles. I currently own a Nissan Frontier V-6. It
has a 5000 mile normal service oil change interval. For the first
couple of changes I stuck with a 3000 mile interval. However, I
recently let the oil go to 5000 miles and collected a sample for
analysis. As for the Saturn, the analysis confirmed that the oil was
in excellent condition and I could have stretched the oil change out
for many thousand of additional miles. The only thing that makes me
nervous about stretching out the Frontier's oil change interval is the
tiny size of the oil filter. The element in the filter is only about
half the size of the element in the Saturn. I worry that the filter
will load up with contamination and go into bypass mode if I tried to
stretch out the change interval. My SO's RAV4 also has a tiny oil
filter. My Sister has a 1997 Honda Civic. It has an odometer driven
oil change reminder (7500 mile intervals). The oil has only been
changed when the indicator turned "red". The engine runs great. The
rest of the car is crap. Likely the car will end up in the junk yard
with a good engine (like many cars). My SO's old car was a Chrysler
mini van with the horrible 3.0L Mitsubishi V-6. Despite sporadic oil
changes, the car was towed to the junk car with a functioning engine
and 200,000 miles on the odometer. If she had changed the oil every
3000 miles instead of every 7k to 9k, the only difference would have
been more money spent on oil changes.

I can't see where changing the oil every 5000 miles or less will hurt
anything other than your wallet, but I don't think it will do you much
good either, even it you plan to drive the car 200k miles. And if you
take your car to a quick change place, I think the fewer visits the
better! If your Toyota manual allows for 7500 mile oil changes, I
definitely would not worry about getting an oil change until you were
at the 5000 mile mark. I'd say as soon as you approach 5000 miles,
plan on getting it changed at the next convenient time. If you only
drive 12k to 13k miles a years, I'd say have the oil change twice a
year - maybe in December and June.

Ed
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
C. E. White wrote:

> I noticed that for many recent US models, Toyota is going to a 5000
> mile oil change interval across the board (no normal / severe service
> split). This certainly should make it clear for most owners of newer
> Toyotas.


They are doing this to eliminate confusion, not because normal service
suddenly required shorter intervals.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top