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why do prius owners feel it is OK to do 50 in the fast lane.?. even when i flash them to move i get ignored, and when i pass on the right, i get flipped off. real classy. fortunately here in marin, calif. the CHP has started ticketing those prius owners that think the fast lane is a good lane to grow trees and fart bunnies.
a BMW 335i sport owner
how do my tail lights look.?.
 

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This is an old thread.....

Some of the information has already been stated - a lot of hybrid owners are of the mindset that they are "saving the environment" and anyone driving a vehicle that isn't a hybrid is doing just the opposite. It isn't uncommon for me to see hybrids (of all forms) hogging the left lane going slow, stacking traffic behind them, having stickers like "50mpg" or "Slow for MPG", etc.... and then most of them have no idea how negatively impactful their vehicles are to the environment and the carbon footprint it took just to build the car...

I have a hugely gas guzzling 1970 Landcruiser with a carb'd Chevy 350
I have a psuedo gas guzzling (especially for it's size) Lexus IS300
I have a not so gas guzzling 1988 Toyota Corolla Alltrac wagon

The person I'm dating has a 2014 Prius C. It's a good car that gets 50+mpg. She bought it for mileage, and not "because it's a hybrid". I've driven it - actually has more power than my Alltrac. We have lots of long backroads without lights and can travel pretty far without hitting traffic - this is the type of area where a Prius actually can have great mpg.
However, given that the alltrac is almost 100% original and has over 300k miles, has no leaks, and was built nearly 30 years ago - the overall carbon footprint of it vs someone "tossing" an old car to buy a hybrid is significantly smaller. I tend to really dislike hybrid owners who buy their vehicles to "reduce their carbon footprint".

I live in a hugely liberal city (full of hippies). I am not liberal. My sister, however, is a huge liberal and a "tree hugger" at heart. So much so that she practices environmental law. She drives a prius. She uses the "MPG" reasoning. She also used to have a 1990 Toyota Corolla. She lives in NJ and based on the traffic, her Prius is only getting mid to upper 20's in the MPG. Hardly worth bagging an older car that was still running getting good mileage for. She has no idea of anything car related (can't even drive a stick). I despise that she has a prius and she knows it... She has a "holier than though" outlook on my cars (in fact her husband even rolled his eyes when he first saw my Lexus).

The hybrid owners who feel they are saving the environment are just as stupid/ridiculous as the coal rollers.
 

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This is an old thread.....




However, given that the alltrac is almost 100% original and has over 300k miles, has no leaks, and was built nearly 30 years ago - the overall carbon footprint of it vs someone "tossing" an old car to buy a hybrid is significantly smaller. I tend to really dislike hybrid owners who buy their vehicles to "reduce their carbon footprint".


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This statement makes no sense. The car they "toss" still gets driven by someone else. If someone traded in a 4 -10 year old car for a new car you wouldn't say they were "tossing" it. it is not like the car goes to the landfill....it gets used regardless of who owns it. They are putting a new hybrid into circulation instead of putting a new car that gets worse mileage into circulation. Even if they only drive it for 3 years....they'll pass it on to someone else who will drive it and get better mileage.


As for the high 20's fuel mileage for the Prius....that number is either wrong or they are driving a defective vehicle. Nobody gets 20's driving a Prius. Having said that....buy whatever you want. When you complain about what other people drive it makes you seem small and petty. You say that you notice someone looking down on you for your Lexus....but you do the same thing in reverse! Grow up.
 

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Though I feel it's nobody's business, I hate the people who think I have two Prius' in my driveway because I think 'I'm saving the world'. I don't believe this. The 1.5 and 1.8 4 cyls in both of my cars pollute worse than my 7.3 Powerstroke F250. I know that. I bought them because they save the money in my wallet. Also because they are Toyota's and run forever. Just my .02.
 

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This statement makes no sense. The car they "toss" still gets driven by someone else. If someone traded in a 4 -10 year old car for a new car you wouldn't say they were "tossing" it. it is not like the car goes to the landfill....it gets used regardless of who owns it. They are putting a new hybrid into circulation instead of putting a new car that gets worse mileage into circulation. Even if they only drive it for 3 years....they'll pass it on to someone else who will drive it and get better mileage.


As for the high 20's fuel mileage for the Prius....that number is either wrong or they are driving a defective vehicle. Nobody gets 20's driving a Prius. Having said that....buy whatever you want. When you complain about what other people drive it makes you seem small and petty. You say that you notice someone looking down on you for your Lexus....but you do the same thing in reverse! Grow up.
Fish on!

Ok, I'll bite here.

In some cases you are right. In others you couldn't be more wrong.

In fact - in order to hype up hybrids there were nationwide callouts to "gas guzzlers" where people were allowed to bring in any car/truck on the "list" in any condition, and if they did they would get $5,000 towards a new vehicle. The vehicle they brought in would be given a chemical that purposely destroyed the engine, and the vehicle was slotted for scrap.

Further - a 300k mile 1995 Camry sounds scary to 95% of those on the road. If you trade in this vehicle, almost guaranteed it will NOT be put onto a lot. It will become one of 3 options -

It will be sold to a side lot/dealer at a reduced cost just to dump the vehicle. Most times dealerships plump up the price of their vehicles and they can negotiate based on trade in because in some circumstances, like a 300k mile 1995 Camry, they will most likely lose money.

In a similar case, it may be slotted for the scrapyard, and they will get a scrap value.

Third option is that it will go to auction - at which point if someone doesn't buy it for themselves/personal use (since no dealer in their right mind would advertise 300k mile cars, and as such wouldn't pick it up) a scrap buyer will pick it up at auction. It may get parted out, but ultimately it's off the road.

A 1995 Camry (4 cyl) gets upper 20's if not lower 30's in the MPG. It uses a widely available 5sfe engine which can be had for very inexpensively and there are tons of them in the scrapyards. In short, a 300k mile Camry can easily outlive many new cars being sold today. A person who has that 300k mile Camry may be doing very little to actually reduce carbon footprints NOR save money in the long run.

Too often people say "I'm saving money by having a Prius". I personally don't always buy it. Here's why:

Lets just say the Camry needs a newer/used engine installed, and it costs you $2000 in total annual maintenance. You drive 10,000 miles that year and (for easy figures) cheap gas is $3/gallon and you get 25MPG.

10,000 miles / 25MPG = 400 Gallons x $3/gallon - $1,200 to drive
plus your $2,000 in annual maintenance
Assuming the Camry is paid for, your annual cost to drive the Camry with maintenance is $3,200

Lets say you get a $20,000 Prius and after negotiations your trade in etc, your monthly payment is $300.
You drive the same 10,000 miles and get 50MPG at the same $3/gallon
That's 2x the mileage so 1/2 the cost.... $600 for gas to drive.
$300x12 - $3600 + your $600 in gas (assuming maintenance for the first year is free) your first year is $4,200 in ownership.

Now lets say you have no car and want 40+mpg. Buy a 3 cylinder 1995 Geo Metro... lets say you get THE best one out there and you spend $5000 on it. Obviously it's the best out there and should be low mileage at that price and so maintenance is mild, at best. Lets just summate it at $300/year for maintenance (oil changes, brakes, belts, etc). You can't afford the $5000 outright so you get a 5 year loan, so lets just say you get the shaft in credit and it costs you $150/month. These CAN reach 50+mpg, but lets just say you drive less conservatively and you get 40MPG.
10,000 miles / 40 = 250 gallons x $3/gallon = $750
Plus your payments of $150 x 12 = $1800
Plus your annual $300 maintenance comes to a grand total of $2850

Going that route- you've still saved almost $1400 that first year of ownership, buying a used Geo Metro.


As for a prius getting in the 20's.... you're right, it can't happen. In fact, why don't you prove it to everyone. Go start your prius and pretend you're stuck in traffic day in, and day out. Start the car, leave it in the driveway for an hour running. Drive it 10 miles. Leave it running for another hour in place. drive it 10 miles. Continue to do this day in and day out. I'm sure you'll still get 50MPG.


And as for the debate of, say, a 1995 Camry needing a new engine - it's comparable (and probably cheaper overall) than having a new battery pack installed in a hybrid - with a probability to last as long if not longer. Further, hybrids still have gas engines and the needed maintenance to go with them - oil changes, belt changes, and all the same wear/potential issues that just a normal gas engine has - because it has a normal gas engine.


Lastly - you completely mistook what I said. I don't hate hybrids themselves - I hate those that know little to nothing about the vehicles, how they're built, and actual available options to "reduce carbon footprints" while stating that they are gods gift to the earth to save it by driving said hybrid. I made the statement that these people are just as stupid as hybrid hating coal rollers.

As for the person I'm dating who has the Prius - she loves my Alltrac and actually wishes she hadn't bought the Prius because her annual cost of ownership is significantly higher than any savings she gets at the pump vs her old car which was paid off.
 

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Fish on!

Ok, I'll bite here.

In some cases you are right. In others you couldn't be more wrong.

In fact - in order to hype up hybrids there were nationwide callouts to "gas guzzlers" where people were allowed to bring in any car/truck on the "list" in any condition, and if they did they would get $5,000 towards a new vehicle. The vehicle they brought in would be given a chemical that purposely destroyed the engine, and the vehicle was slotted for scrap.

Further - a 300k mile 1995 Camry sounds scary to 95% of those on the road. If you trade in this vehicle, almost guaranteed it will NOT be put onto a lot. It will become one of 3 options -

It will be sold to a side lot/dealer at a reduced cost just to dump the vehicle. Most times dealerships plump up the price of their vehicles and they can negotiate based on trade in because in some circumstances, like a 300k mile 1995 Camry, they will most likely lose money.

In a similar case, it may be slotted for the scrapyard, and they will get a scrap value.

Third option is that it will go to auction - at which point if someone doesn't buy it for themselves/personal use (since no dealer in their right mind would advertise 300k mile cars, and as such wouldn't pick it up) a scrap buyer will pick it up at auction. It may get parted out, but ultimately it's off the road.

A 1995 Camry (4 cyl) gets upper 20's if not lower 30's in the MPG. It uses a widely available 5sfe engine which can be had for very inexpensively and there are tons of them in the scrapyards. In short, a 300k mile Camry can easily outlive many new cars being sold today. A person who has that 300k mile Camry may be doing very little to actually reduce carbon footprints NOR save money in the long run.

Too often people say "I'm saving money by having a Prius". I personally don't always buy it. Here's why:

Lets just say the Camry needs a newer/used engine installed, and it costs you $2000 in total annual maintenance. You drive 10,000 miles that year and (for easy figures) cheap gas is $3/gallon and you get 25MPG.

10,000 miles / 25MPG = 400 Gallons x $3/gallon - $1,200 to drive
plus your $2,000 in annual maintenance
Assuming the Camry is paid for, your annual cost to drive the Camry with maintenance is $3,200

Lets say you get a $20,000 Prius and after negotiations your trade in etc, your monthly payment is $300.
You drive the same 10,000 miles and get 50MPG at the same $3/gallon
That's 2x the mileage so 1/2 the cost.... $600 for gas to drive.
$300x12 - $3600 + your $600 in gas (assuming maintenance for the first year is free) your first year is $4,200 in ownership.

Now lets say you have no car and want 40+mpg. Buy a 3 cylinder 1995 Geo Metro... lets say you get THE best one out there and you spend $5000 on it. Obviously it's the best out there and should be low mileage at that price and so maintenance is mild, at best. Lets just summate it at $300/year for maintenance (oil changes, brakes, belts, etc). You can't afford the $5000 outright so you get a 5 year loan, so lets just say you get the shaft in credit and it costs you $150/month. These CAN reach 50+mpg, but lets just say you drive less conservatively and you get 40MPG.
10,000 miles / 40 = 250 gallons x $3/gallon = $750
Plus your payments of $150 x 12 = $1800
Plus your annual $300 maintenance comes to a grand total of $2850

Going that route- you've still saved almost $1400 that first year of ownership, buying a used Geo Metro.


As for a prius getting in the 20's.... you're right, it can't happen. In fact, why don't you prove it to everyone. Go start your prius and pretend you're stuck in traffic day in, and day out. Start the car, leave it in the driveway for an hour running. Drive it 10 miles. Leave it running for another hour in place. drive it 10 miles. Continue to do this day in and day out. I'm sure you'll still get 50MPG.


And as for the debate of, say, a 1995 Camry needing a new engine - it's comparable (and probably cheaper overall) than having a new battery pack installed in a hybrid - with a probability to last as long if not longer. Further, hybrids still have gas engines and the needed maintenance to go with them - oil changes, belt changes, and all the same wear/potential issues that just a normal gas engine has - because it has a normal gas engine.


Lastly - you completely mistook what I said. I don't hate hybrids themselves - I hate those that know little to nothing about the vehicles, how they're built, and actual available options to "reduce carbon footprints" while stating that they are gods gift to the earth to save it by driving said hybrid. I made the statement that these people are just as stupid as hybrid hating coal rollers.

As for the person I'm dating who has the Prius - she loves my Alltrac and actually wishes she hadn't bought the Prius because her annual cost of ownership is significantly higher than any savings she gets at the pump vs her old car which was paid off.


None of your arguments have anything to do with a Prius. All of your arguments would be exactly the same if you were trading in an old Camry for a new Camry. If you had your way everyone would be driving 20 year old cars. Some people are going to buy a new car ANYWAY. If you are going to buy a new car anyway the prius will save you gas/money. If you want to be a martyr and drive a 1998 Geo metro knock yourself out. Enjoy driving!
 

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I've said this at least twice now, I find it funny that you haven't been able to comprehend it yet: I don't hate hybrids.

I hate hybrid owners who think they are better than everyone else purely because they have a hybrid. That their hybrid is the solution to global environmental issues and anything else is just unfathomable - because those thoughts are completely invalid. Someone buying a new gas only Camry isn't going to have that stigma associated with their purchase. I'm not saying all hybrid owners are like that at all. However, there are a lot of them out there.

The "holier than thou" hybrid owners are almost always standard Prius owners.
 

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"The 1.5 and 1.8 4 cyls in both of my cars pollute worse than my 7.3 Powerstroke F250. I know that."

I'd like to know how you know that?


He doesn't. He's just repeating a corollary of the widespread urban myth about a Prius taking more natural resources to manufacture than most gas guzzlers.
 

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He doesn't. He's just repeating a corollary of the widespread urban myth about a Prius taking more natural resources to manufacture than most gas guzzlers.

Thanks for the opportunity to explain myself... and no, this is not at all what I meant.

I wasn't talking about the manufacturing process. Notice how I specifically listed the engines. What I meant by this is that the gas engines in my Prius' create more carbon dioxide than that of my 7.3 Powerstroke. For those who don't know a 7.3, or any Powerstroke for that matter is the Diesel engine Ford selected to put into its Super Duties.
 

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Well, lets be honest - Diesel engines, especially turbo diesels, are dirty dirty engines. They don't conform to the normal output of a gas engine and as such are exempt from emissions testing as CO and Nox are different. That isn't to say that they aren't dirty polluting engines.

For those that don't know - there's actually a reason that a diesel engine outputs all that black smoke.

A gas engine is regulated by the throttle body. The throttle body lets air in. A gas engine will pull air in (or forced induction, air is forced in) and the engine electronics (or carb based on vacuum) will determine the amount of gas required - keeping it within an appropriate range of stoich, while creating needed power and not running too lean. This system works and gas engine can run at a higher RPM - they are ignited by spark plugs (electronically). They have a controlled flame-front and as such, that's why we regulate the air coming in. As such you hit the "gas" pedal, which the throttle body snaps open and there is a very slight delay in the amount of air vs gas (this is lean) - then the electronics kick in and add additional gas.

A diesel works almost in reverse. There is essentially an open amount of air available and hitting the throttle actually controls how much diesel fuel is being pumped into the engine, regardless of how much it "needs" given the rpm/air available (or being pushed in). Further diesels do not rev as high because they do not use a controlled flame front - it will self ignite based on temperature and compression. This is called "ping" or a chaotic flame front - meaning the spark can occur anywhere in the combustion chamber (this can happen in a gas engine and it's very bad). In any event - diesel engines dump black fumes out because when the driver hits the "gas pedal" the system pumps more fuel through the system before the engine actually needs that much fuel.

A turbo system will always require more fuel - be it a diesel or a gas engine. It's very common for diesel guys to up the turbos and as such require more fuel - this allows them to increase power and tow more (or tow the same amount up steep hills without issue) - usually these increased setups have a computer that controls how much fuel can be delivered or what "level" the driver wants the power to be at (based on turbo pressure and fuel delivered) - coal rollers can essentially manipulate it to dump excessive unburned fuel out the tailpipe.

To say a diesel is cleaner than a gas engine is like saying a stagnant pool of water in the jungle is safer to drink than ocean water.
 

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I stand corrected. Though my truck is considered an "older" diesel (no cat, no dpf, nothing but a muffler on the exhaust) it doesn't dump really any smoke at all. I have a larger turbo, and upgraded fuel system to accompany it, a chip to regulate fuel/air, a larger exhaust, and a few more mods but my truck doesn't "roll coal." At most my truck will give a small puff while under duress (flooring it, towing). Thanks for clearing it up, I know that no engine was clean but I thought that the difference in cleanliness between gas and diesel was much greater.
 

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srellim234
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We just recently bought our Gen II Prius for the gas mileage, dependability and the fact we were in a position we could pay cash for it. We already use it primarily to go see reachable family on the weekends (106 miles to our son's family and 120 miles to one of my wife's sisters). Next summer we'll be making trips to Colorado Springs and Denver as well as the Salt Lake City area, all to visit family.

We're averaging 50mpg out on the high desert and we don't worry about the car getting us there. Quite frankly I don't care what anyone else drives, just that this vehicle works exceptionally well for us.

My conservative driving style is what irritates the impatient. No matter what I'm driving you'll usually see me over in the right lane with the trucks, cruising along at anywhere from the actual speed limit to 3 mph over.
 

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srellim234
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I realized the last post before mine was a couple of months old but figured I'd throw my two cents worth in anyway. Coming from a couple of other automotive forums I'm finding this one is pretty dead.

You're right about driver attitude. That smugness was the same we used to see in Cadillac and BMW drivers who drove as if saying, "Well, yes, as a matter of fact I DO own the whole road." :)

I recall a few years ago, too, hearing my friends complain about Prius drivers who would hold up traffic behind them trying to accelerate while using only the electric motor. Those Prius drivers had very little consideration for others.
 

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Coming from a couple of other automotive forums I'm finding this one is pretty dead.
I'm assuming you are just referring to the hybrid forum.

I'm a member of several forums - focusfanatics, Hyundai-forums, priuschat, fiestafaction, etc., and overall, I'd say TN is more active than any of them.

Then again - I tend to follow ALL of TN and the forum makes it simple to do that ...
 

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srellim234
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Spot on with the assumption. I figured the Echo part of this forum would be dead because there are so few of them out there. Priuschat is a little busier with the hybrid stuff. The other one I used to frequent a bunch was NICOclub when I had a Nissan Versa. I still pop over there on rare occasions and find them pretty active.
 

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I realize I am late to post this. We have a red 2010 Prius that has been the best vehicle we have ever owned, but definitely didn't buy it as a political statement. Here in the reddest state of all, Oklahoma, our car has been keyed so many times that the paint is ruined. Seems particularly bad now that the low price of oil has wrecked out state economy!
 
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