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Lemon Highlander Hybrid 2020 LE...now water leak

6K views 34 replies 10 participants last post by  Penzfan 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,

did someone had problem with water leak under the front driver floor mat ? I have a 2020 LE (that is a REAL lemon, I'm now at the 8 major issue since January 2021!!!!) and it have a lot of water under the floor mat of the driver side. It'a a LE so, no gimmick, no sunroof, moonroof or anything that usually leak. Also, its the original Windshield, again, so not suppose to have problem there too.

So someone had this issue (or any water leak) ?

Thank you !

Eric
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
Hi everyone,

did someone had problem with water leak under the front driver floor mat ? I have a 2020 Hybrid LE (that is a REAL lemon, I'm now at the 8 major issue since January 2021!!!!) and it have a lot of water under the floor mat of the driver side. It'a a LE so, no gimmick, no sunroof, moonroof or anything that usually leak. Also, its the original Windshield, again, so not suppose to have problem there too.

So someone had this issue (or any water leak) ?

Thank you !

Eric
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
It could be coming from anywhere, they are the hardest things to fix....

I must warn you of the dangers of mold growth, in the Insurance industry, we no longer laugh at those sorts of claims, I have totaled cars over water leaks, including a Porsche Panemara

Water is finding the lowest point, where it came from requires tearing out a lot of the interior and looking for tell tale signs of water. A friend with a Suburu was not taken seriously by a dealer, I dent him to a second one I knew was more thorough, they had the car three weeks. The leak was thru one of the roof rack mounts, they ended up replacing a lot of parts, and my friend lawyered up and got $$$ from Suburu for diminished value.

We are always concerned about water getting into connectors and corroding pins. If an air bag does not fire off because of a corroded connector I don't want to be named in the law suit.

A 2020 car should still be under warranty. Make them fix it !!

If they can not find it by removing the interior trim and looking for the leak with someone running a hose over the car, then they need to bring in a machine that fills the car with a non toxic "smoke" and then they run a sensor around until they cat a hit that the chemical is leaking out .

All it takes is one seam that was not sealed properly on the assembly line to cause your problem.
I have appointment Friday to check the car, but, from what I read everywhere, and like you mentioned, the water leak is the worst thing to fix. I don't want to keep the car anyway, to much problem can arise.

I had the dealer director involved, and they offer me to buy the car back since I had 8 problems in 1 year, this car is a lemon. The problem is they don't have any new car right now, and the waiting list is over 1.5 year for a Hybrid Highlander.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Yeah, I will take the money for sure, in fact they offer me 2000$ more than I paid (before taxes), but, I need a new one, and they don't have any, they just ordered a new one this morning for me. I will try to escalate this with Toyota Canada and see if they can have me a car faster I can't wait 1 year and half for a new car. Anyway, it is a problem from factory, so I wish they will do whatever they can to get me a new one.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Yeah, I will take the money for sure, in fact they offer me 2000$ more than I paid (before taxes), but, I need a new one, and they don't have any, they just ordered a new one this morning for me. I will try to escalate this with Toyota Canada and see if they can have me a car faster I can't wait 1 year and half for a new car. Anyway, it is a problem from factory, so I wish they will do whatever they can to get me a new one.
So, long short story. Here is the continuous unending horror storie with Toyota Canada !

I just take my LEMON highlander 2020 hybrid in at the dealer this morning to have the water leak problem fixed, the first thing the service guy say to me :" if the water leak is your fault I will need to pay for the fix" he was SO arrogant, how can say that even before checking de car... what a way to do business with someone who pay 50k for a car that have less than 1 year on the road and have 8 major breakdown on it ! The service guy had say that it's probably my boots this winter, or the condensation (a first time someone try to make my believe this, 2 inch of water on the floor is from the condensing in winter !!!) that create this mess , it had nothing to do with my boot :mad:, interestingly enough the water mess happen after a week of rain. They also try to put the problem on the sunroof (I don't have one, my model is the LE :LOL:, well you know your job man ... learn your model before say anything ) That's total bullshit, I drove the car 2000km this winter and I have a winter carpet that I wipe every time I had water on it.

Anyway, after arguing with him (and talk with the dealer manager) he ended up by saying that they will need to take the entire front appart and keep the car for the week end and next week also ! They need to remove seat, center console, all trim and carpet. What a fu.... mess ! All the car will be lose and will crack and rumble after this ... anyway its another story.

So I just go back to home, and call Toyota Canada, because, let's face it, this situation is totally inacceptable. And they will do absolutely nothing to get me a car faster, nor help me with this problem, they put all the dealer. Toyota QUALITY AND RELIABLITY is now a MYTH, they take a BIG DROP they are nowhere near of what they was before, this company is a joke. I'm currently thinking of bringing this to the local TV, and a bunch of auto reviewer I'm so unhappy with Toyota and the bullshit they said to me lately that I also looking at legal to settle this.

Anyway, if any of you have water leak problem, DON'T LET THEM afraid you with their cost. They MUST legally fix the car. They try to scare customer so much, what a shady business Toyota !

Anyway thank for reading me guys, I will try to keep updated this saga on my really not loved LEMON highlander.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
I am sorry that you have been through this long frustrating problems with your new Highlander. I hope you get a replacement soon! I have a 2022 Highlander XLE and since I got it a month ago it drives me crazy with clicking noise coming from the dashboard. Not a big problem as yours, but feeling cheap on a $50k car.

I suggest going with 4runner though, it's not the same driving experience or mileage but at least it's one of those rare cars that are still made in Japan which I believe would have a much better quality control.
Yeah, I think Toyota cut quality big time on the newer model with the infamous TNGA, fit and finish is not so great, a lot of clicking noise from dashboard, door and trim.

I agree with you on the 4Runner, I had a 2017 limited before the highlander, I some time regret selling it, the build quality is stellar. The 4Runner is a tank. I'm now thinking to go with the Lexus RX450H, maybe this one is a better choice for quality and reliability, plus the RX 2022 is on the last year-model, so all problems is probably fixed after 6 years. The Highlander is still a new car in 2022. Maybe it will be better after the 2023-24 mid life remodel. The only thing that stop me buying the Lexus RX is the cargo space and seating, it is way smaller than the highlander.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
I am sorry that you have been through this long frustrating problems with your new Highlander. I hope you get a replacement soon! I have a 2022 Highlander XLE and since I got it a month ago it drives me crazy with clicking noise coming from the dashboard. Not a big problem as yours, but feeling cheap on a $50k car.

I suggest going with 4runner though, it's not the same driving experience or mileage but at least it's one of those rare cars that are still made in Japan which I believe would have a much better quality control.
By the way, for the clicking noise, I had the same problem. Dealer didn't manage to fix it (even after 3 visit) so I found a way to stop it (at least for me). I put a ribbon of insulation (sold in most hardware store) between the dash and the windshield. My car is at the dealer now, but I will take a pic when I will have the car back.
 
Discussion starter · #12 · (Edited)
I have been trying with my local dealership and they claimed they don’t hear it.
Yes, I have the same problem, they seem deaf and they never heard anything, this is really annoying. They make you look like idiot and all is normal for them, quite unacceptable for a vehicle in this price range.

I still hear it and yes it would be much appreciated if you show some pictures.
I will take pics with pleasure when they give me my car back, they have it for a couple or day since they need to find the water leak.

I have a video recorded around the glove box when the clicking noise is heard.
I have the same problem, and its quite annoying, but I didn't manage to pinpoint the exact location of the clicking noise, more than often it is so annoying, I slam the glovebox with some ... force or simply crank the radio up ! Great for a 50k car !

[/QUOTE]
Another noise I solved myself (and again the dealer claimed no noise heard) was a kind of springy/rattling noise coming from the driver side around the side mirror. I thought it’s wind noise but it ended up that when the driving wheel is lowered to minimum something is rubbing against something, I don’t know exactly but I raised the wheel a bit and the noise went away!
I had a similar problem, but it was more like a whistling noise from the two side, like a high pitch whistling sound when driving at 90 kmh +. I have them replace the two mirror. In the meantime they also changed the blower fan that had a clicking-rubbing noise, really annoying.

Generally I am not impressed with the build quality of highlander!
Generally speaking, I'm all with you, my highlander is a big piece of junk ! Quality is lacking everywhere, all feel cheaply made, poorly assembled with subpar parts. This car is the worse car I ever had, its a new car and I have bring it maybe 10 times to the dealer BEFORE the first real maintenance appointment (16000km).

I have a 2011 Rav4 that I bought new, this car just keep running and running. It is a Tin can, but I have little to no problem with this one.

Anyway, I'm so disappointed of this total lack of quality and reliability, its really not what I expect from Toyota.

So, for now, I may trade my Highlander for a Lexus RX450h 2022. The RX is on the last year-model in 2022, I expect that all problems is fixed, I really hope, because it will be my last Toyota.

I always wanted to pay for better quality and reliability, I don't care paying more, I just don't want problem, but, my highlander have none of these. I hope Toyota will fix theses issues, if they want to survive the next critical decade, they need to bring back the quality they are know for.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
I would strongly recommend you to talk with a lawyer (if you haven't done so yet). Toyota will try every trick to avoid getting the car declared as "lemon". If you ever get them to buy back the car, they will try to trick you into signing an affidavit that the car wasn't a lemon and that it was a "goodwill" settlement. Toyota does it to keep their "lemon car" statistics artificially low. Also, "lemon law" gives you specific rights, why "goodwill" settlement or arbitration allows Toyota to bypass the law and set their own rules. A lawyer will help you maximize your benefits, and "lemon law" requires the manufacturer to pay lawyer fees. Don't let Toyota go the "goodwill" settlement or arbitration route. The court route and "rule of law" will usually work in your benefit.
I wish I could, but since I'm from Canada, we don't have any lemon law here, we have something call Camvap (CAMVAP - Homehttps://www.camvap.ca). The problem is it took time to go in the process, and I don't have much time. The dealer offer me to buy back my car for a little over the price I paid 15 month ago. The only problem is that they don't have any car to replace it at the moment. The Highlander hybrid have a waiting time of around 1.5 year. I may go for a Lexus RX450H, which I can have in about 3-4 month.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
I totally agree with you. You know, I financed my 2022 (not leased) and my biggest concern now is that the lack of quality control might have been reflected on real mechanical problems in the engine or transmission. I am worried that any of big bill problems might occur 5 years down the road when the warranty is over. I do my due diligence with oil changes every 6 month and I will keep records of all bills and receipts.
I'm with you, I pay cash for the my highlander hybrid, big mistake, but at least, the current market keeps the price high, so I didn't lose any money.

I don't know if they will address all theses problem and the lack of assembly quality, but for me its a huge turn off. I had many Toyota before my highlander, and I never experienced any problem like this. I will now go with Lexus, I wish they maintain a level of quality since its a luxury brand, and it cost a lot more than the toyota lineup.

I will be waiting to see your pictures of the rattle repairs around the dashboard when you have your car back. I hope your issues get resolved soon but with the delays in market and production you will have to wait as you mentioned. Good luck!
Yeah I wish I will have it soon, the dealer have my car for more than a week, and they haven't start to work on it.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
I'm with you, I pay cash for the my highlander hybrid, big mistake, but at least, the current market keeps the price high, so I didn't lose any money.

I don't know if they will address all theses problem and the lack of assembly quality, but for me its a huge turn off. I had many Toyota before my highlander, and I never experienced any problem like this. I will now go with Lexus, I wish they maintain a level of quality since its a luxury brand, and it cost a lot more than the toyota lineup.



Yeah I wish I will have it soon, the dealer have my car for more than a week, and they haven't start to work on it.
So the dealer was give me the car back. They do some test a quick cleanup, and they say that they don't find any leaks ... common.

Anyway, I will just get rid of it at the end of summer I ordered a 2022 RX450H. But I have see on clublexus, that earlier Lexus RX 2016-2020 had a water leak problem too with sunroof drain (they say it was spider web and nest...). Now let's hope I will not have it on this one too 🤞
 
Discussion starter · #22 · (Edited)
Lexus is just a pimped out Toyota. It's not designed and built like real premium / luxury cars that are designed from the ground-up as a premium product. "You can put lipstick on a pig ..."
Hi Katekebo, what do you mean that is not designed and built like a ''real'' premium ? I know that they are on the same platform (K platform). It is not the same for all manufacturer ? Acura have the same platform as Honda ? And Infiniti have the same as Nissan ?
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
So the dealer was give me the car back. They do some test a quick cleanup, and they say that they don't find any leaks ... common.
The dealer say that he can't find the water leak after having the car and searching for 2 weeks, that's make me wonder if they are any competent with water leaks, they spray some water with a hose over it and call it a day.

Today after a trip in the rain, I notice the car is still leaking, so back to house I did a test with a pressure washer (best way to simulate a heavy rain at 80mph), I found the problem in less than 15 minutes. It leak in the upper front left, probably a seam in the body or the base of the windshield. The water drip very slowly so it take a while to detect the leak.

What make me a bit angry, is the dealer doesn't seem to care about the problem. I don't have any trust in them anymore, and if the body is leaking, I just take the cash and run away. It will be another one problem not mine anymore.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Why even stay with a Toyota Product?
Currently, the dealer offer me to buy the car back, so I'm stuck with them since they are aware of the leaking problem and they won't sue me. I don't want to sell the car to anyone else and risk being sued for a hidden problem. And quite frankly, I think nobody will ever want buy a car with water leak. If the dealer sell it after that to someone else, it surely won't be my fault, and legally I will be clear.

I must say that I don't ''hate'' or ''dislike'' Toyota, I always had Toyota before and generally speaking, like them (at least, the ones I had before was problem free for the most part of the ownership), I want to convince myself that I had real bad luck with this one, its a first year/model. I know that Toyota and Lexus are the same company, but I wonder if any brand will be better that Toyota/Lexus, maybe, but I didn't had great experience when I had other brand.

I look for a High-end/Luxury SUV with a reliable hybrid power plant, so, the option are pretty limited to Toyota and Lexus, and more specifically to Highlander and RX.

I will go take a look at other brand for sure.

My friend just bought a new MDX, car is nice but they are not trouble free also. He also say he averaging 17-18 l/ 100km, what is a awful gas mileage for a new car just redesigned this year. He also pay north of 90k for it. I had a friend with a BMW X5, well, the car had a lot of problem too.

I need to go take a look at Mercedes, but, from what I heard, they are quite expensive to run, maintain and fix.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Finally, I will get my new highlander hybrid 2023 LE tomorrow ! I just wish the problem will be over with the new one ! I really don't want to have water leak again. I will take a look closely in the next few month to be sure all is ok. I will keep the post updated, but I really really wish that all will be ok !
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
And hopefully at no cost to you! And hopefully the new one will not have problems! Best wishes!

I heard a rumor. In the 1990's Toyota was trying to figure out how another car company (I'll leave unnamed, since it is just a rumor) could build and sell a car so cheaply. So they bought one and dismantled it. Turns out this other company used 1/3 less parts. Lets see, bolt, nut, lock washer. Which is the easiest part to leave out?

Edit: I do think that Toyota, and other companies, still follow the concept of
Kaizen (English: Continuous improvement). So likely your 2023 will be better than your 2020

With the current market I haven't lose money, the dealer bought the car the same price I paid it two years ago.

For the kaizen concept, I think they still use it, for instance, I see some change with my 2023 VS my 2020. I notice a few things, better panel alignment, trunk seem to close smoother. Doors shut ''tighter''. Exterior plastic trims are less flimsy. It's all small things, but it prove that they still improve over time.

I also notice that they use different updated parts for many parts, fuel tank, hybrid cable, etc, etc.

But I learned my lesson :rolleyes:, I will never ever but a first year model-year car anymore, even with a Toyota-Lexus. When you buy a new year model, you will be testing and more prone to problems. Usually I always try to buy a car on the end of his lifecycle, so i have all updated parts, most problem are usually fixed. I know that I still can have problem, but at least, they probably fixed many over 3 years.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
Just a FYI there are creative ways to find a water leak, and trust me water leaks are the worst thing to get on a service order

Once you eliminate the sunroof drains, and look at all the seals, the easiest way is to either use a smoke machine and pressurize the crap out of the car to force the smoke out, or in the bad old days we would open a tank of freon ( no oil, just gas, when it was cheap) in the car, close it up, and use the freon sniffer to find the leak.

the third way is to pop an ozone generator in the car and let it run, then use an Ozone sniffer to hunt for the leak.
Hi thank for your input. They are indeed good way to find a water leaks, but i think dealer doesn't really care about finding the problem (at least the two dealer i visit), they prefer to put the fault on consumer instead of admit a manufacturing problem. After two years of water intrusion i decided to trade the Highlaner for another one, because i live in Canada and here, its a lot of salt water that was entering the vehicle, so i didn't want to deal with long term problem caused by the water intrusion.
 
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