Toyota Nation Forum banner

81 - 100 of 272 Posts

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,500 Posts
wow some wonderful input.
well tell me if im doing something wrong here first off im gonna revert fuel from 95 to 90 and change oil to 5-20 or should it be higher and lastly im gonna hav my combustion chamber cleaned professionally and take out that nasty carbon deposit out of the engine.
any other suggestions.
It's not your vehicle combustion chambers. It is lifters. Has none to do with combustion chambers. You do not have piston slap, it's no GM truck.
OP, don't waste time and money. Not a single professional will clean lifters by pouring half a can of solvent down the fuel line. Cleaner must be IN OIL, or lifters must be removed.
We already told you before - why do you keep running car that is made for 87 grade gas on 95? But see, high octane knock would have been there all the time, not just at cold start.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,500 Posts
OK, my last post on this issue...

Again, the TSB in question has a noise that only lasts about 1/2 second and does not effect in the least the way the car runs. The VVT gear is supposed to rotate to max retard on shut down, and there is a hardened steel pin that engages to lock the gear in that position until the engine starts and the oil pressure unseats the pin and unlocks the gear. If the pin sticks or breaks, the gear then rattles extremely briefly until the system starts to operate. The gears have a special type fastener on them to hold them together and cannot be disassembled. I have done it with a chisel and hammer on one that was no good, but then they are REALLY no good! If the gear is affected by that problem, there is no recourse but to replace it.

Ron AKA is correct, when the OP stated it was misfiring, I read into it that the CEL was on, which is not mentioned. But that got me started thinking some more along the lines I stated. On and ICE, if the fuel has drained down as I suggested, the car just spins and doesn't start. After a few seconds of cranking, the operator generally quits. But on the TCH, the ECU is in control. It will spin the engine for something 20 seconds before it quits and sets a code. In the fuel deprivation I mentioned, the ecu is causing the engine to be spun over, but it is only partially running until the fuel pressure comes up, and then it smooths out.

I would want to hook a laptop to one while it was doing it, or a pressure gauge or both, but IMO that is the only thing that fits the symptom.

'Nuff said.
Good to know. I thought, only Mazda had badly designed VVT actuators. Hey, you the man.
 

·
Registered
2013 TCH LE
Joined
·
208 Posts
...why do you keep running car that is made for 87 grade gas on 95?
FYI, fuel octane ratings are different between North America and Europe:

87 in the US is about the same as 91 in Europe
95 in Europe is about the same as 91 in the US

So it might not be as "bad" as it first appears.

I'm no expert here but my understanding of octane is that it's a knock retardant so if you put too high octane gas in your car, it will limit the explosiveness of the gasoline and cost more so it's mostly a waste of money in that case.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,500 Posts
FWIW, the 2.4l 2AZ-FXE engine does NOT have hydraulic lifters, but a 'shim-bucket' valvetrain design - the valve lash is set by using different thickness 'shims' to obtain the specified tappet-to-cam clearance. While this design can get noisy, the noise level will not be notably reduced after build-up of engine oil pressure - and the only 'cure' is to replace the valve shims to get the clearance to spec.

To the original poster's problem - one item to determine is how quickly you're building oil pressure, possibly using a direct-reading gauge spliced in via a 'T'. The car is old enough to have issues with the oil pump - these can come from high loads of grit that is likely present in your environment. If you're slow in building up pressure, address the root cause (could be oil pump, could be pickup, could be pressure relief valve - or excessive bearing clearances somewhere. Problem could also be something as simple/stupid as an oil filter with bad/missing drainback valve.
To my knowledge, I had clear pictures of lifters in repair manual. Have my word, I had shimmed engine before, with what is called tappets, or shimmable buckets, and made sure it's not the case before posting. Says loud and clear "lifter" and has 2 holes at the camshaft mating lobe. Says nothing about shims. Unless it is a shim hidden inside the tappet bucket, and they simply call it lifter because they do not know what they talk about?

 

·
Premium Member
06 HiHy,10 Prius
Joined
·
510 Posts
ukrkoz, yeah, some people do refer to them as lifters for the sake of simpllicity. The holes you see in the side of the bucket are to make removal of the shim easier...after depressing the valve, you can hit that hole with a blast of air pressure, and ZING! out it comes! Having seen many, in the photo on the left you posted you can just see where the shim stops...there is a line at the bottom of the shiny edge of the shim.

FWIW = For what it's worth.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,500 Posts
Ok, they are tappets. Not sure why they call them lifters. No, it does not have hydraulic pressure in it. Clearance is adjusted by replacing tappet. AKA lifter in Toyota terminology.

VALVE MECHANISM 1. General
The 2AZ-FXE engine is a high-expansion ratio Atkinson cycle engine of which the intake valve close timing has been significantly retarded by setting the VVT-i controller and intake camshaft to the retard side.
Each cylinder is equipped with 2 intake valves and 2 exhaust valves. Intake and exhaust efficiency has been increased due to the larger total port areas.
The valves are directly opened and closed by 2 camshafts. The intake and exhaust camshafts are driven by a chain. The VVT-i system used for the intake camshaft
is used to increase fuel economy, engine performance and reduce exhaust emissions. A shimless type valve lifter is used.

Along with the increased amount of valve lift, shimless valve lifters that provide a large cam contact surface are used. The adjustment of the valve clearance is accomplished by selecting and replacing the appropriate valve lifters.
Service Tip The valve lifters are available in 35 size in increment of 0.020 mm (0.008 in.), from 5.060 mm (0.199
in.) to 5.740 mm (0.226 in.). For details, refer to the 2007 Camry Hybrid Vehicle Repair Manual (Pub. No. RM02H0U).


Guess, nothing changed since 94 Corolla times. And it's costly PITA to adjust, as you have to buy entire set of tappets. And tech to do it for you.

So I rest ashamed here.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,500 Posts
ukrkoz, yeah, some people do refer to them as lifters for the sake of simpllicity. The holes you see in the side of the bucket are to make removal of the shim easier...after depressing the valve, you can hit that hole with a blast of air pressure, and ZING! out it comes! Having seen many, in the photo on the left you posted you can just see where the shim stops...there is a line at the bottom of the shiny edge of the shim.

FWIW = For what it's worth.
No, no shims. I miss good old lifters. Easy to maintain.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,500 Posts
Ahhhh, screw shims and tappets. Nothing beats Honda's "by hand" adjustments. 30 minute job, for the cost of valve cover gasket. With Toyota, you either have to buy entire set of shims, and have camshaft removed to access tappet one at a time, or entire set of tappets for this engine. Either way, it's a pain as you have to get all the way down to tappets. Much more work to do. And something to go wrong along. Not friendly.
 

·
Premium Member
06 HiHy,10 Prius
Joined
·
510 Posts
ukrkoz, no reason to be ashamed! You and I both were victims of incorrect information. The photo you posted is not for a 2AZ-FZE or a 2AZ-FE. If it is from a Camry, it is from a 5S-FE. I responded based on the photo instead of researching. The actual facts are that on the 2AZs the entire tappet must be exchanged instead of a shim. If you removed a tappet and looked underneath, you would see a largish bump dead center, and also a marking of the size. The tappets come in different sizes. It sounds awful and expensive, but the truth is that with the hardened valves and seats of today, they almost NEVER need adjusting unless they are re-faced. The system has come light years since Fiat introduced it in the early 60s (stateside...maybe earlier overseas), but it is still just as effective as ever. When I went through my 2AZ (I bought it with the engine damaged from no maintenance) at 176K, I reused the same exact shims with no problems. I like them.
 

·
Registered
2012 Camry Hybrid
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
I wonder if what we call tappets are what the toyota techs mention as buckets.

All this talk about tappets and such reminds me of my wife's first '78 Corolla. After a 5 years the rockers became noisy. I set them with the engine warmed at idle with a feeler gauge. They were nice and quiet for about a month then would need resetting. I used a screwdriver to set the clearance and locked the set screw net down tight. I did this for about 3 months then we sold the car to a fellow worker at my work. He bought the car for his daughter to drive to collage. He said she loved the car. I remember it had a 5-speed manual floor shift.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Hi again guys just to update you on the situation i fixed the car knocking noise by changing the oil to 5-30 synthetic and added a few fuel system cleaners to the tank all is well now.
Thanks again i highly appreciate the help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,433 Posts
Hi again guys just to update you on the situation i fixed the car knocking noise by changing the oil to 5-30 synthetic and added a few fuel system cleaners to the tank all is well now.
If that is all it took to "fix it", at least you know there was nothing really serious wrong with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
JAZMONDO wrote:
Hi again guys just to update you on the situation i fixed the car knocking noise by changing the oil to 5-30 synthetic and added a few fuel system cleaners to the tank all is well now.

This reminds me of a similar instance back in the 1970's. My brother in law had bought a new Cadillac which was making some engine noises after start up. It was within the first year he had it and when he took it back to the dealer they said not to worry about it, everything checked out fine. Synthetic oil just started being sold commercially and Mechanics Illustrated tested it and their article impressed me enough to put in my car. I told my brother in law about the article and he put it in his Caddy. He was surprised to see that the noise that he heard on start up had stopped happening. The next time he changed oil he went back to regular oil and he said the noise came back. He didn't use anything but synthetic since. I'll bet if you hadn't used the fuel oil cleaners your knocking would have stopped with the synthetic oil alone.

 

·
2007 TCH owner
Joined
·
341 Posts
Oil Consumption Test

Finally I found a dealership that handled my situation. I used to have the oil consumption tests on another dealership and with 3 tests (every 1000 miles) they say it's normal. When I have the safety inspection done on another dealership they told me that the oil level is low and they have to continue the oil consumption tests. After 800 miles, brought back the vehicle to them and they're going to rebuild it. The tech said that Toyota is aware of the problem and has redesigned pistons to fix this issue. Luckily I have a 100k warranty, so that paid it off.
 

·
Registered
2008 TCH
Joined
·
695 Posts
That's interesting. I have noticed that mine uses oil. I have to "top it up" every couple weeks. It was really bad when I got it and it has been using less over time. It uses less now with 163,000 miles than it did when it had 76,000 miles. Same oil, Mobil 0/20 syn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
I recently changed out my PCV valve and it seems to have decreased oil consumption quite a bit. It's a cheap part to purchase, but if your feeling frugal you could probably get away with cleaning it out with some carb cleaner or engine degreaser.
 

·
Registered
2008 TCH
Joined
·
695 Posts
I recently changed out my PCV valve and it seems to have decreased oil consumption quite a bit. It's a cheap part to purchase, but if your feeling frugal you could probably get away with cleaning it out with some carb cleaner or engine degreaser.
Hmmm.... Where is that located on the TCH? I could do that right now.

As long as they move freely and do not stick, they are fine.
 
81 - 100 of 272 Posts
Top