[Vew]

First post, though I've been a long time lurker. Most information I've found from searching in the past. I drive Subaru's, but the rest of my family drives Toyota's which I help with some of their maintenance and major problems. I'm trying to fix my sister's 2007 Rav4 (V6).

Vehicle shows CEL, VSC, & 4WD lights are on. I pulled the codes (9 total) which were
P0300 - random - multiple misfire detected
P0011 - Intake (A) Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced (Bank 1)
P0015 - Exhaust (B) Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0017 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor 3
P0301 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
and a couple repeats.

The vehicle seems to drive ok (no power loss), though I'm not used to driving this car. The idle is defiantly rough and the acceleration seems a bit jumpy, though this just may be the fact I'm used to 4 cylinder engines. I do drive a 4Runner fairly often and acceleration doesn't seem anywhere near as touchy.

During a hunt for an exhaust leak I located at the muffler, I also notice a diesel/tractor type sound coming from the engine itself. I'm assuming it's misfiring.

She bought it used at 55kmiles. It's at 75kmiles now. She drives very short distances to commute on the train to the city and drives back home to WV long distance once every few months. She only puts about 5kmiles on it per year with 2 oil changes per year.

Among the obvious is faulty sensors, I've read possible bad OCVs, and came across this http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/152-venza-forum/324381-tsb-2gfr-fe-engine-ticking-noise.html which seems unlikely since I don't hear a ticking noise (unless you count the diesel sound).

Anyone have any ideas to narrow down what it possibly could be before I start dropping money into parts?

 

[fgf001]

How old is the battery? A battery that's going south can wreak havoc with the '06-'12 V-6 even though it starts just fine. It's worth checking the state of the battery on a load test. I put this info here before with another similar V-6 problem and folks thought I was nuts. Know what? It cured the problems. Obviously there may be other issues but start with that.

 

[Vew]

That does seem like a crazy notion that a failing battery would cause such problems since I would imagine the voltage difference be handled by the alternator until it was low enough where the vehicle is unable to start, and the battery is unable to accept a full charge. I won't rule it out though. I'll check the date code, voltage, and do a load test when I get home from work. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[katekebo]

Without any more info I would say that the VVT is toast. These could explain why one bank is over-advanced and the other is over-retarded.

I would start by looking at the timing chain (or belt, whatever it has). Maybe it jumped a tooth (due to wear, broken tensioner, or something else). The timing is OK, then I would look at the VVT actuators.

 

[Vew]

Talked to my sister. Battery was replaced last March. This matches up with the date code which shows C3(L?)GB which indicates it was shipped from the factory March 2013.

The battery voltage shows 12.57VDC before I began. The battery dips to ~10.5VDC before turning over. Traffic is insane right now so I'm trying to avoid leaving my house until later. I'm going to probably rule this cause out.

Without any more info I would say that the VVT is toast. These could explain why one bank is over-advanced and the other is over-retarded.

I would start by looking at the timing chain (or belt, whatever it has). Maybe it jumped a tooth (due to wear, broken tensioner, or something else). The timing is OK, then I would look at the VVT actuators.

Pardon my lack of familiarity, but I'm assuming I'll have to pull the valve cover to check the timing chain (almost certain)?

 

[katekebo]

Pardon my lack of familiarity, but I'm assuming I'll have to pull the valve cover to check the timing chain (almost certain)?

You will have to pull the valve AND the chain cover to be able to see the timing marks. You really need to have the full engine service / repair manual do to it right (follow all the steps to remove the covers without damaging something in the way, know how to identify the timing marks and what relative positions they should be in, etc.). If you don't have the documentation, I doubt you will be able to diagnose the problem correctly.

 

[dl175]

Is it possible the spark plugs are bad?

 

[katekebo]

Is it possible the spark plugs are bad?

Spark plugs could result in misfire codes but not these ones
P0011 - Intake (A) Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced (Bank 1)
P0015 - Exhaust (B) Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0017 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor 3

I think that these three codes point to a timing issue between the crankshaft / camshafts position. The simplest mechanical cause would be the chain jumping a tooth. Or something more complex like a bad VVT actuators, bad position sensor, etc.

I am going to look at the service / repair manual for a different Toyota engine I am more familiar with to see if I can find any clues.

 

[Vew]

My mechanic friend brought over their fancy Snap On scanner the city owns. Gave me a bit more detail on narrowing it down. The common recommendations between all the codes pulled is to check/clean the VVT oil filter screens, check/replace both the intake/exhaust OCVs, and finally the timing chain. I'll see if I can get to the screens and check for timing damage this Saturday or Sunday. Thanks for all the input everyone. I'll keep everyone updated.

 

[Vew]

Well, the screen only had a few particles in it. Nothing that looked like it would hinder oil flow. Cleaned it out with brake parts cleaner. Is there only one filter for all 4 OCVs?

I removed the 2 front OCVs since the rears were being blocked by the intake manifold. Is this thing supposed to be this rusty? This was after blasting it out with cleaner. I expected them to be oil drenched pulling them out, but they were just barely covered in a thin layer of oil.

Edit:

I cleared the codes before cleaning the filter and front OCVs. I started it up and it seemed to run fine. No rough idle and the diesel sound was gone. Took it for a spin around the block and drove OK. When I got back into the driveway, I noticed the idle was rough again and the engine was sputtering (i think that's what is making the diesel sound). Didn't run it long enough for it to throw any codes.

 

[zapatito]

What was the resolution to this one? I am having similar issues and codes.

 

[Vew]

I took the vehicle to the dealership for diagnosis (~$70). It was what I feared, the VVT system was toast. Estimated between $5-10k to repair. She ended up trading it in on a Honda CRV. I think she got about $7k on her trade in.

I actually own a 2013 4Runner now, so although my confidence in them has been shaken, it wasn't completely lost.