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It's okay to use a thicker oil oneself if it makes you happy, but it is not okay to claim the thinner oil is bad for engine when you have no hard evidence. This is very irresponsible.
I don't think it is as simple as one oil visocosity being bad, and another being good. There is a continuum of trade-offs between fuel economy and other factors (such as engine longevity).

You seem to want everything to be black or white, and it just doesn't work that way.
 

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I don't think they are allowed to do that, or at least that open Toyota up to all kinds of legal liability problems.
Looks like US consumers are screwed. The only good thing is I have Highlander running 0W20 and can/may problably alternative between 0W16.
 

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The only tine I experimented with different viscositys was when I had my Ram. Most of the older long time ram owners said that 5/20 was too thin and to run 5/30 to help protect the cam and lifters. I tried Pennzoil, mobil1, redline, and Amsoil 5/30's and all of them produced a knock about half way up the temp scale when engine was warming up. The knock only lasted about 15 or 20 seconds but sounded like a rod knock. When engine was cold or when it was hot everything was quiet. Went back to running 5/20 and never had the knock again. Granted the 5.7 hemi had issues of its own, but I didnt see introduceing another issue into the mix as necessary.

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Is 0W-16 mentioned in the owners manual as an acceptable viscosity for the HL?
HL running 0W20. Camry 2019 will be running 0W20 every other change 7k interval alternating with 0W16.

Previous post was not as clear. Guess this is a happy compromise for me.

I now have 3 different oil viscositty including 5W30 ;=(
 

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My local Wal-Mart now has m1 0/16 back on the shelf again. @mark888, you realize that m1 0/16 is not API certified, right? Not that it makes any difference but if I had something requiring 0/16 id use either the m1 or toyota oil.

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Wait, when did the Mobil 1 0w-16 is not API Certified? On the back of the bottle it shows API SN PLUS.
 

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Wait, when did the Mobil 1 0w-16 is not API Certified? On the back of the bottle it shows API SN PLUS.
If API SN PLUS, then certified. Documenation as typically been the last thing to get updated.

Oil grade: API SN/RC multigrade engine oil
Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-16
 

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If API SN PLUS, then certified. Documenation as typically been the last thing to get updated.
Even if it were only API SN (no plus) it would still be API certified as API SN.

This is a different situation than the Amsoil Signature line of motor oil, which does not meet any API certification, because it contains higher than allowed zinc and phosphorus levels.

Here is an explanation:

"What was discovered through oil testing by several engine component manufacturers is that many older [flat tappet] engines experience a short period of time during engine start-up where critical lubrication is insufficient between metal-to-metal lubrication points when using modern oils with reduced amounts of ZDDP/ZDTP. These same enhancers unfortunately have their downside: The phosphorus in this compound creates carbon buildup in engine bores and valvetrains, and both compounds can also lead to the early demise of catalytic converters. For this reason, the industry has been reducing phosphorus levels since 1994, when the American Petroleum Institute’s SH designation became the industry standard, and levels have been further reduced in each subsequent API rating for engine oils."

Note that the Amsoil XL and OEM lines meet API specifications and are API certified. But they don't test any better than mass markets brands in wear testing.
 

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Did OA's on another ride, using Blackstone lab. Report will list whats found in oil..good, bad or ugly. You tell um what oil used & how many miles on it when sending in. Tech report might even say can go longer between changes. Can also talk to tech's there if need be. So far no OA on my 2 gr fe using OW-20, meaning no idea what OA would show? This oil sure drains fast. :unsure:
Will AMS Oil work in those engines?
 

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quoted from above
There is a big difference between 0W-20 and 0W-16.
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This is not intuitive and is really hard to believe. any more explanation ?
 

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Even if it were only API SN (no plus) it would still be API certified as API SN.

This is a different situation than the Amsoil Signature line of motor oil, which does not meet any API certification, because it contains higher than allowed zinc and phosphorus levels.

Here is an explanation:

"What was discovered through oil testing by several engine component manufacturers is that many older [flat tappet] engines experience a short period of time during engine start-up where critical lubrication is insufficient between metal-to-metal lubrication points when using modern oils with reduced amounts of ZDDP/ZDTP. These same enhancers unfortunately have their downside: The phosphorus in this compound creates carbon buildup in engine bores and valvetrains, and both compounds can also lead to the early demise of catalytic converters. For this reason, the industry has been reducing phosphorus levels since 1994, when the American Petroleum Institute’s SH designation became the industry standard, and levels have been further reduced in each subsequent API rating for engine oils."

Note that the Amsoil XL and OEM lines meet API specifications and are API certified. But they don't test any better than mass markets brands in wear testing.
Amsoil signature series has the same doughnut and labeling as mobil1 0/16 with no API certification shield. So how can you say one is certified and one is not? If Amsoil is not certified bexause it has the doughnut but no shield then same goes for mobil1 0/16.

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Amsoil signature series has the same doughnut and labeling as mobil1 0/16 with no API certification shield. So how can you say one is certified and one is not? If Amsoil is not certified bexause it has the doughnut but no shield then same goes for mobil1 0/16.
That is not accurate. Amsoil Signature line does not pass any API certification because it has to much ZDDP/ZDTP, which can harm emissions systems. So it does not have the API doughnut label.

The Amsoil XL and OEM lines are API certified (and probably not even blended by Amsoil). Amsoil Signature is not even available in grade 0W-16 (only their OE line, which is their cheapest motor oil).

Mobil 1 says its 0W-16 meets API SN Plus specs, but is not certified for API SN Plus Resource Conserving (which is some fuel saving designation). It is not clear why that is, and whether it is just a delay in the testing and certification, since Mobil 1 0W-20 does meet API SN Plus Resource Conserving specs.

Again, the problem with Amsoil Signature line is that it contains too much ZDDP/ZDTP, not that it doesn't meet viscosity specs. ZDDP/ZDTP is important for classic or racing flat tappet engines, but not for modern production cars.
 

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That is not accurate. Amsoil Signature line does not pass any API certification because it has to much ZDDP/ZDTP, which can harm emissions systems. So it does not have the API doughnut label.

The Amsoil XL and OEM lines are API certified (and probably not even blended by Amsoil). Amsoil Signature is not even available in grade 0W-16 (only their OE line, which is their cheapest motor oil).

Mobil 1 says its 0W-16 meets API SN Plus specs, but is not certified for API SN Plus Resource Conserving (which is some fuel saving designation). It is not clear why that is, and whether it is just a delay in the testing and certification, since Mobil 1 0W-20 does meet API SN Plus Resource Conserving specs.

Again, the problem with Amsoil Signature line is that it contains too much ZDDP/ZDTP, not that it doesn't meet viscosity specs. ZDDP/ZDTP is important for classic or racing flat tappet engines, but not for modern production cars.
Instead of just voicing youre opinion you need to look at an Amsoil bottle, it does in fact have the doughnut and has had fir awhile now.

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Discussion Starter #75
Mobil 1 says its 0W-16 meets API SN Plus specs, but is not certified for API SN Plus Resource Conserving (which is some fuel saving designation). It is not clear why that is, and whether it is just a delay in the testing and certification, since Mobil 1 0W-20 does meet API SN Plus Resource Conserving specs.
Bottom line is it seems bizzare that the largest motor oil manufacturer in the USA (Exxon-Mobil) is telling the general public - on it's own motor oil selection guide - that it doesn't offer ANY motor oil that meets Toyota's specs for the 8th gen Camry 4 cyl engine. Likewise the company has told me in writing none of the transmission fluids advertized on it's website meet Toyota's WS fluid specs! https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-transmission-fluid
 

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Instead of just voicing youre opinion you need to look at an Amsoil bottle, it does in fact have the doughnut and has had fir awhile now.
Instead of just voicing youre opinion you need to look at an Amsoil bottle, it does in fact have the doughnut and has had fir awhile now.
I am not even sure the API doughnut is applicable anymore (been replaced by "Resource Conserving"); however, I have never seen it on Amsoil Signature line (your post says "Amsoil," and I am talking about Amsoil Signature Line only since Amsoil XL and OEM are API certified).

Here are the only pics I could find, and don't see any API certification:

What is says is that you can use the oil when the following certifications are specified, but in fact Amsoil Signature does not meet any of the certifications listed since it has too much ZDDP/ZDTP.

So unless you can find or post a pic to verify what you said, I will go by the available pics on the Internet, which says Amsoil Signature line is not API certified (and has no API doughnut).
 

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Bottom line is it seems bizzare that the largest motor oil manufacturer in the USA (Exxon-Mobil) is telling the general public - on it's own motor oil selection guide - that it doesn't offer ANY motor oil that meets Toyota's specs for the 8th gen Camry 4 cyl engine. Likewise the company has told me in writing none of the transmission fluids advertized on it's website meet Toyota's WS fluid specs! https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-transmission-fluid
In the Mobil 1 Q&A section (posted earlier in this thread) they implied they are waiting for the new New API and ILSAC Certifications to Launch in May 2020, but that early testing looks good. 0W-16 is a new product for Mobil 1.

I would be surprised if any other 0W-16 motor oil manufacturer officially is certified other than Toyota, even if they recommend their 0W-16 motor oil. Exxon Mobil is very conservative, because they end up getting sued a lot, such as being sued for global warming by multiple states.

Mobil 1 does list their 0W-16 as a recommended motor oil (along with 0W-20) for the Honda Fit, so there is something about the Toyota certification that I guess is lacking, or Toyota is trying to corner the market on oil changes.

As far as auto transmission fluid, I can understand that because these days with "lifetime" transmission fluids, and the fact that it is no longer a DIY job, there is not as much of a direct retail demand for it (and shelf space is very valuable). They probably provide OEM's transmission fluid under the OEM brand name.
 

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I am not even sure the API doughnut is applicable anymore (been replaced by "Resource Conserving"); however, I have never seen it on Amsoil Signature line (your post says "Amsoil," and I am talking about Amsoil Signature Line only since Amsoil XL and OEM are API certified).

Here are the only pics I could find, and don't see any API certification:

What is says is that you can use the oil when the following certifications are specified, but in fact Amsoil Signature does not meet any of the certifications listed since it has too much ZDDP/ZDTP.

So unless you can find or post a pic to verify what you said, I will go by the available pics on the Internet, which says Amsoil Signature line is not API certified (and has no API doughnut).
LMAO, made you look. If all anyone is worried about is if this oil or that oil meets yotas spec then they should run toyota oil and be done with it. If ya wanta run mobil1 then run mobil1 and shut up about it. Same goes for castrol, Pennzoil, valvoline, pick youre flavor, not everyone has to like it.


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LMAO, made you look. If all anyone is worried about is if this oil or that oil meets yotas spec then they should run toyota oil and be done with it. If ya wanta run mobil1 then run mobil1 and shut up about it. Same goes for castrol, Pennzoil, valvoline, pick youre flavor, not everyone has to like it.
Does that mean you deliberately post false information?
 

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Does that mean you deliberately post false information?
No, it means oil threads are rediculas. This oil is better than that oil, no this oil don't meet spec but mine does, youre motors gonna go belly up if you dont you this oil. Oh my god, don't even think about using this oil. They all start out so innocent, hey, what oil is everyone using, and then the aruments and trash talking begin.

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