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Motor Mount Question

4K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  Kingdom934 
#1 ·
2000 Camry LE sedan with 181.5k miles and unknown service history.

As I'm doing repairs on the car, I noticed large cracks in the dog bone mount. However, when revving the engine with the throttle cable, the engine does not move at all.

There is no vibration in the seat in any gear.

However, when I shift into reverse from park or neutral, I feel a clunk. There are no other clunks in any other gear.

Questions:
Should I replace the dog bone mount, despite not having any problems with back and forth engine movement?

What is causing the clunk when shifting into neutral?

Is there an algorithm for clunking noises to diagnose specific engine mounts?

Autozone has lifetime warranty on its engine mounts and the prices aren't bad. I figure that if I can easily do the engine mounts myself, I get the Autozone, then warranty them if/when they break.

Thanks
 

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#6 ·
I've had several Gen 3 and 4 Camrys in my family and whenever I've replaced the "dog bone" mount (Toyota calls it a "Center Engine Mounting Insulator" for the I4 and an "Engine Moving Control Rod" for the V6, but uses the second wording in the FSM) it always went bad again later. That tells me that one or all of the other mounts are also bad. You may need to replace more than just the dog bone mount. I'm assuming you have the 4 cylinder engine mated with an automatic transmission. If so, this is the mount you want: Toyota part #12363-74130. The manual transmission models use a different mount and the V6 uses different mounts as well, so it depends on what your configuration is.

I know you said you would get one from AutoZone, but in case anyone thinks they want to get a mount fom the junkyard, I say "good luck" to that. They are almost always broken or compromised mounts at the junkyard.
 
#8 ·
Thanks. I definitely need an easy engine mount to change. My confidence level is pretty low, because 10 years ago (or so), I screwed up doing engine mounts on my Volvo, taking me a month to fix it.

Yes, I have the 5S-FE with an automatic transmission (A541E?).

When I went to the junkyard, I looked at the V-6 Camrys. The engine bay was too tight for me to work. For example, I tried to access the spark plugs under the intake manifold next to the firewall, but couldn't even get my hand in there!

My thinking with the AutoZone brand for the dog bone is that it has a lifetime warranty and looks really easy to replace. If so and that dog bone ever breaks, I can easily warranty it.

Any thoughts why the dog bone looks horrible, but the engine doesn't move, and I only have clunking when going into reverse?
 
#9 ·
47 ft lbs torque on those bolts for the engine mouting control rod, BTW. I've never worked on the V6, but yeah.....it's tougher, but there's always a way to reach something, which might involve more work.

Not sure why the engine doesn't move, but the engine mounting control rod (rubber part) gets messed up because at least one of the other mounts is messed up. They work together.
 
#10 ·
Second that


if the dog bone Mount wears out or cracks again fairly quick, you got a bad front at very minima and also rear and or transmission mount.

here’s a V6 guide.


I would destroy the dog bone in 6mon. So far it’s holding out okay
 
#12 ·
See if you can check the other three mounts as well. One or all of them are the reason your engine mounting control rod rubber was broken. When I removed the front mount on my son's Gen 3 Camry, I found it was completely worn out.

I hope you saw that I posted the torque specs?

Also, to anyone doing this on a Gen 3 Camry, go to the junkyard and find a Gen 4 Camry and buy the bracket into which the mount is inserted and use a new Gen 4 mount. It is more stout than the Gen 3 mount. Basically Toyota realized it was too small and updated it for the Gen 4. If you don't have a junkyard nearby or don't want to do that, get a Gen 4 bracket online or at the Toyota dealer.
 
#16 · (Edited)
^^ I'm looking at O'Reilly and AutoZone's wording on their receipts. They say nothing about one-time only lifetime replacement limitations. Where did you find information about any such limitation?

I've also warrantied lifetime warranty items at O'Reilly more than Autozone and was never told about a one-time exclusion. As a parallel, the extended warranties at Best Buy are one-time only.

Also, the new clunking went away, leaving the original clunking into reverse the only problem, though a bit less clunky.
 
#17 ·
Update: I just finished changing the transmission mount. The rear bushing portion at the top was completely torn through and through. You can't see it unless you remove it. There was oil around it, suggesting that an oil leak with the prior owner damaged the mount.

A couple bolts went on with difficulty, but I removed them and reinstalled. All bolts accepted the torque (47 ft-lbs).

I lose the underside rubber cap in the frame. Need I get a junkyard one?

I put Loctite blue on all bolt threads, so I have to wait 24 hours before doing a test drive, which is fine with me because I'm exhausted.

I have the rear mount in hand and will get the front mount next week. I might do both at the same time. We'll see.

Thanks for your help.
 
#18 ·
Update: I just finished the front and rear mounts, torquing everything to spec, except the rear top mount where it attaches to the engine bracket. There was no change in the clunking after I replaced the rear mount. After I replaced the front mount, the clunking improved about 50-70%, but persists.

The front and rear mounts had no cracks and their top, where the bolt/stud fits, moved only a little by hand, as opposed to the new mounts which barely moved by hand.

The only thing that I could have done wrong was not use a torque wrench on the top of the rear mount-engine bracket (no access and barely got a flex head ratcheting wrench in), but I tightened it as hard as I could.

Any suggestions?
 
#19 ·
I used a long extension(s) with possibly a universal joint that allows you to bend the angle a bit. Torqued from up above engine that way. Been a while so I don't remember where through the engine bay I oriented the extension.
 
#20 ·
To summarize, are you saying that after replacing all of the mounts the clunking improved but persists?

If so, then there is something else still making noise. With all new engine mounts we can (hopefully) rule that out (barring any crap quality aftermarket parts issue).

Since it only makes the clunk when you shift into reverse, which is a driveline input that is managed within the transmission, then on a car with 180k+ miles and unknown service history, it may be time for a complete fluid flush of the AT, make sure to flush all of it, not only the 1/3 that comes out when the pan is dropped.

While you are at it, also flush the brake fluid and the power steering fluid and the coolant, as those are often overlooked, and should be done every 50k miles or so, in old car maintenance.

It is entirely possible that the clunk is normal and so long as you don't apply power until after the clunk has occurred each time, might be ok for a very long time. Or, flushing the transmission might improve it. Also, there might be a reverse band that needs adjusting, on the inside of the transmission (I don't know about AT, just guessing about that last part).

N
 
#21 ·
Thanks. Yes, I changed all mounts with new ones, and inspected them before install.

I was skeptical and surprised that the clunking improved only after changing the front mount, because the tip moved only a little and was, in fact, hard to move. Should that front mount tip not move at all when it's not in need of replacing?

I've changed the transmission fluid 4 times since getting the car, three times drain and refill due to color, then once last week due to dark color. I've read elsewhere on TN in the past (can't find the links now) that there is a risk of damaging this old transmission with a complete flush and I should only drain/fill. Is that right?

Also, the car shifts perfectly and better than when I got it in "D" and "L2," and no clunking even before the drain/refill in those gears, so please help me understand why a transmission flush will solve clunking at rest.

Already flushed brake and power steering on getting the car three weeks ago.

As a worst case scenario, if the clunking doesn't worsen and I don't rush the car into gear, what damage, if any, could occur by allowing the clunk to persist?
 
#22 ·
Hopefully someone who knows about AT will be able to answer your questions.

It sounds like it is working fine in the "going forward", only clunks when going into reverse. I have a winter beater '94, (I4 AT, the first AT I've ever owned) and it also clunks going into reverse, but only if I give it gas before it is "ready". So, now I shift into R, wait a beat, and then apply gas. Irritating for someone behind me in a parking lot ("why doesn't he go?!"), but makes the AT happy.
 
#24 ·
I'll take a guess or three... automatic transmissions are black magic and there is a non zero chance I might be full of crap.
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; Direct Clutch and/or Forward Clutch packs and/or the Overdrive planetary gearset is shot causing drivetrain shock when the input shaft connects to the front planetary gears using these clutches and the front planetary gears to the rear planetary gears as well.

When you shift from park or neutral into 1st or reverse, the gearbox input shaft uses one or the other of those clutches combined with a gearbrake depending on which direction you're going to connect the front (and/or rear) planetary gearset(s) set to rotate a certain direction to the sungear and input shaft.

If the gears are not meshing right you could get clunk, if the gear brakes are not engaging or disengaging right you get clunks, if the clutches are not engaging right you get clunks.

Pretty much all of these depend on a properly functioning valve body, solenoids, ecu, proper throttle linkage settings, and appropriate fluid.

I would 1000% test or replace the valve body SLN solenoid next time you drop the pan and filter and have access.
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;or the valve body somewhere is clogged stopping fluid from getting to those gears or clutches.
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;or a solenoid is dying and telling the valve body to make the trans change gears quicker and harder than is required or a brake to engage quicker or slower or sooner or later than it needs to.

The solenoid in question would be the SLN solenoid valve which is the horizontal one right above the trans pan filter if I recall correctly.
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;or your throttle linkage cable is too tight causing the valve body pressure to increase and the clutches to think more power is being transmitted than actually is - so they engage faster to prevent heat and efficiency loss. Ours transmissions are not smart enough to care that the car isn't moving - that throttle linkage is the primary controller of the whole transmission, almost everything it does is affected in one manner or another by that cable and the ecu just feeds the solenoids info based mostly on throttle cable position and speed sensor.

I have mine real tight, I don't get a clunk but the axles do load up much harder from park/neutral than if the cable is looser. The reason I do it is because that cable which controls all the things gets me really snappy, instant redline shifts if I use the shifter at 6k rpm - I just move the shifter manually when the timing is right so it engages the solenoids which control the valve body immediately, and start shifting - instead of waiting for the trans to reach the pressure required and then shift itself at its leisurely pace.

Normally the ecu is set to cut timing when the trans shifts to reduce power and shift shock, but by using that cable and a little timing you can bang through gears at redline with full throttle shifts for some sick crackles. My trans has no right to still be alive lol.
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TL;DR Basically could be anything man..this may not be as helpful as I hoped.
 
#27 ·
Artbuc1, thanks.

I properly seated the mounts before torquing them. However, I wonder if the clunking into reverse could be a defective new transmission mount? The dogbone and transmission mounts were visibly cracked, the front and rear mounts looked fine. Of course, I changed all four mounts.

I agree about doing drain/fills, but would you explain the danger of flushes?
 
#28 ·
Clunking or harsh shiftiness might be something else. Could be maybe CV inner axles clunking when the car goes into drive and revers? I thought part of my issue with my 1998 was caused by worn out mounts...! they were dead, but that didn't solve the rather very harsh upshifts and reverse gear change. I'm concluded it is something internal to the transmission as no adjustment with the kick-down cable is fixing the harshness between each gear shift (R to D) and each up/downshifts in D. ATF been drain/refilled and filter was done as well. As long as it still drives, I'm leaving it alone.
 
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