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NASCAR drivers and owners bitching about how much more HP toyota has in their engines

2998 Views 29 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  eyeball96, 
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Harvick, known mostly for his exploits as a driver in the Sprint Cup Series, also is a part-time driver and full-time car owner on the Nationwide and Craftsman Truck series sides. He said, point blank, that Toyota has more horsepower than everyone else in all three garages and that he believes the difference in power between his Chevrolet engines and Toyota's engines is significant.
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What a difference a year makes.
http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/cup/03/01/kharvick.jroush.toyota.horsepower/index.html
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This makes me laugh out loud. Shouldn't a race car driver like Harvick STFU and do his job, which is racing?


To add, is Jack Roush already conceiting defeat this early? Keep in mind this is what he said (his fighting words against Toyota) more than a month ago http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=2&id=2741269
"We will not be intimidated by any new team or manufacturer that comes in," Roush said. "Toyota will not find that established teams will wither in their path as they have seen elsewhere. We're going to war with them and they should give us their best shot."
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When asked why he was scared of Toyota, Roush replied: "Did I say I was scared? I don't back away from a good fight."
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And now Roush is saying (from mikered's link):
"I wouldn't say they've got an unfair advantage. They've spent maybe more money and spent it in areas that other teams haven't, and with that they've gotten the result that you might get from working harder and expending more resources," Roush said. "There is a limit to what you can reasonably afford to spend, given the traditional of sponsorship and the traditional level of support that comes from the manufacturers, and the traditional level of support that comes from the decal sponsors on the car.

"If Toyota is upsetting that, if they're spending more money, which I'm given to believe they are, then they've got an advantage. But it's not unfair, because if we wanted to spend or could spend that much money, we could do the same thing."
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So Mr. Roush, what in the world are you trying to say? So are you saying Toyota has an unfair advantage or not? What's with contradicting yourself like that?


Shouldn't there be less talk, and instead putting more effort into engine development? Anyway, these "propaganda" smack-talks from Harvick and Roush are certainly evidences that they're conceiting defeat before the "war" is even 1/5 of the way there. Funny that Dodge hasn't say much, and I'd safely assume that Dodge probably has the least amount of spending (for NASCAR racing) out of the Detroit-3.


Mark my words though. When there're more bitching than actual racing going on, I'll predict that NASCAR will have no choice but to penalize Toyota-teams (in power or other things such as ballast weight), just so the bitches will shut up.
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EchoHoLiK said:
Mark my words though. When there're more bitching than actual racing going on, I'll predict that NASCAR will have no choice but to penalize Toyota-teams (in power or other things such as ballast weight), just so the bitches will shut up.
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That's a GUARANTEE! Back when you could use different noses, one team would figure out an awesome "aero" nose and the other teams would bitch to no end about how unfair it was, then NASCAR would step in and make the team modify the nose (if it really did have a clear advantage.)

Toyota, welcome to the modern day bitch fest that is NASCAR. It's nothing new, and it's nothing against you, it's been going on for YEARS.
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So Toyota will get "punished" for pushing out the max possible HP? Isn't that the point of tuning engines? That is stupid. How come other teams last year did not get "punished" when toyota engines sucked, so the field could be even?
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I don't believe NASCAR will intervene, but they will tell the teams with complaints to step it up or get left behind. The same would've been true for Toyota last year. They stepped it up a notch, now it's time for the other guys to play catch up.

I also wouldn't say Toyota is throwing tons of money around. They have a great engineering base at TRD.
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SILVERadoTACOMA said:
That's a GUARANTEE! Back when you could use different noses, one team would figure out an awesome "aero" nose and the other teams would bitch to no end about how unfair it was, then NASCAR would step in and make the team modify the nose (if it really did have a clear advantage.)

Toyota, welcome to the modern day bitch fest that is NASCAR. It's nothing new, and it's nothing against you, it's been going on for YEARS.
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Your last statement (underlined) couldn't be more true :thumbup::lol:

As for the "different nose," how far back was that? Were you talking about the 70's, you know, with the Plymouth Superbird (one of my fav "ridiculous" muscle cars :D) having that nose and wing that clearly gave true aero advantages? Funny thing was that the Superbird was sold as regular production cars to homologate the car to be raced in NASCAR, and shouldn't the NASCAR officials have seen and expected that the Superbird's design (with the nose and wing) would pose a serious threat to non-Superbirds before allowing them to race in the series? :lol::disappoin



mikered30 said:
So Toyota will get "punished" for pushing out the max possible HP? Isn't that the point of tuning engines? That is stupid. How come other teams last year did not get "punished" when toyota engines sucked, so the field could be even?
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Exactly, the engine tuners should stop bitching and get to work. IMO, unjustified bitching = conceiting defeat.



91MR2quickNA said:
I don't believe NASCAR will intervene, but they will tell the teams with complaints to step it up or get left behind. The same would've been true for Toyota last year. They stepped it up a notch, now it's time for the other guys to play catch up.

I also wouldn't say Toyota is throwing tons of money around. They have a great engineering base at TRD.
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:werd: And throwing tons of money into motorsport does NOT mean you'll be successful, and Toyota's Formula-1 program is evidence enough of that.
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Nah, 90's and up. With the "old" cars you could widen out or squish the nose a hair to get an aero advantage, especially at the super speedways. I remember the biggest complaints were when dodge reentered and everyone complained how much better their nose was :lol:

...The superbird was and always will be a bad bad bad ass car :thumbup:
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SILVERadoTACOMA said:
Nah, 90's and up. With the "old" cars you could widen out or squish the nose a hair to get an aero advantage, especially at the super speedways. I remember the biggest complaints were when dodge reentered and everyone complained how much better their nose was :lol:
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:lol: So it's basically a decrease in frontal area :thumbup: I afraid that now it's harder and harder to "find an advantage" (aka "cheat") in terms of aerodynamics. Since every car will have to be checked thoroughly (with pre-made templates of all aspects that "could" be changed to get an advantage) by NASCAR officials, it's very very hard to get away with doing anything without being caught. Having said that, seems like the cars (especially the CoT cup cars) today (from each manufacturer) are still able to look slightly different up front, and I'm not just talking about the decals/stickers. Seems like the sheet metal looks different too, but very very slightly.



SILVERadoTACOMA said:
...The superbird was and always will be a bad bad bad ass car :thumbup:
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Yup, that and its "twin" the Dodge Charger :thumbup::naughty:
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The Dodge "Daytona" Charger and the Plymouth "Superbird" One was a Charger with the nose, the latter was a Roadrunner...not exactly twins
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eyeball96 said:
The Dodge "Daytona" Charger and the Plymouth "Superbird" One was a Charger with the nose, the latter was a Roadrunner...not exactly twins
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Well, that was what I meant (without mentioning the Roadrunner), but they're basically "twins" without the nose-piece and wing, generally speaking ;)

The Charger (with the "Superbird" setup of having that nose and wing) looks nastier and not as aesthetically pleasing as the Superbird as a whole, IMHO. Without the nose+wing add-ons though, I like the Charger more than the Roadrunner, but frankly I like them both and couldn't care less which one I'm driving if the keys are handed over to me :naughty:
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I was watching the race yesterday, when yet another Toyota won, and one of the announcers said that NASCAR will do something because Toyota has an advantage when it comes to HP. Cars get dynoed after the race, and the Toyota engines just flat out do better. So Toyota will get punished for making a good engine, while the other companies struggle to keep up. :confused:
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mikered30 said:
So Toyota will get punished for making a good engine, while the other companies struggle to keep up. :confused:
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Maybe so -- agree with it or not, it's the way they run things... at least in recent years. As soon as one brand is found to have any advantage (power, aero, whatever), Nascar tweaks the rules to 'level the playing field'. Someone gets their nose bent and life goes on.

Now with the COT, innovation is further discouraged if not totally crushed. It is basically a spec car with the only significant difference between brands being the source of the engines. Gets more difficult every year to remain interested in the series...
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GM and Ford will just have to work on their engines....fuckin wieners...Seems Dodge has! Hell Roush shouldn't bitch anyways, Biffle qualified two MPH faster that the Dodge in second and the Toyota in third for todays race in Dover.....it'll probably explode though.

Nascar is trying to make the racing more driver ablility vs HP anyways.
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Nascar has hp restriction and if toyota is exceeding them, then they need to be penalized.

All of the domestics have had cars confiscated at some point for exceeding the limit.

The cars should all be kept to a uniform limit so that DRIVER SKILL will be the determining factor.


One team dominating isn't fun. After all, the thrill of any sport is anticipating who is going to win. The closer the competition, the more exciting the game.
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Venom_5
Toyota needs to put some more money in some real motorsports ... thats all i know.

But im glad they are finally bumping up their motorsports programs, their F1 team is doing better this year and apparently they are gaining some respect in the NASCAR world.

Whether or not they exceed the limits, it doesnt really matter a whole lot to me ... and it shouldnt to any of us, because we wont know who has what HP. My friend works as an engineer on a Nationwide-series team, and they wont even tell him how much hp the engines make :lol:
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Whether or not they exceed the limits, it doesnt really matter a whole lot
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:lol::lol::lol: I see, so if you're a weight lifter and steroids is prohibitted, you don't use it but your opponent does and he destroyed you in the competition... you wouldn't be bitching? :lol:


because we wont know who has what HP.
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Nascar officials do random dyno tests. Toyota has just been lucky to not get caught.

I love Toyotas but fair is FAIR. There wouldn't be any point to any sport if you don't have rules and regulations and they're not followed.
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Venom_5
actually, no - i wouldnt be one to complain about steroids ... i guess im not competitive enough because all i care about is my personal gain & progress

i know if i performed poorly or if i did extremely well, and if im improving - and thats what i like to see

i know this isnt the case with NASCAR drivers (or most paid professionals), but i was just showing you my P.O.V.
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Toyota swept Dover this weekend, time to punish the teams who do the best and win!!! Go NASCAR! Where was NASCAR last year when Toyota sucked ass and could not buy a win? Why weren't the other manufacturers punished because Toyota could not compete?
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cwayne said:
:lol::lol::lol: I see, so if you're a weight lifter and steroids is prohibitted, you don't use it but your opponent does and he destroyed you in the competition... you wouldn't be bitching? :lol:



Nascar officials do random dyno tests. Toyota has just been lucky to not get caught.

I love Toyotas but fair is FAIR. There wouldn't be any point to any sport if you don't have rules and regulations and they're not followed.
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wtf? that doesn't even make any sense. what are the toyota teams doing that isn't fair? they're not hiding anything or avoiding dyno runs with their cars.... they have a better engine. PERIOD! if the other teams want to compete, they'd better step and redesign their engines for the next season so Rowdy won't leave them behind......AGAIN!! :lol:

oh, another point, how does a weight lifter taking steroids have anything to do with nascar? the toyota teams aren't using nitrous oxide.....or anything that gives them an advantage as steroids do with bodybuilders/weightlifters. TOYOTA has simply found a better more efficient way to work out their muscles that makes them stronger.... PERFECTLY LEGAL.
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Venom_5 said:
actually, no - i wouldnt be one to complain about steroids ... i guess im not competitive enough because all i care about is my personal gain & progress
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I'm sure if the prizes in Nascar consisted of ribbons and plastic trophies, it wouldn't be an issue. However there's a little something called money involved. More like MILLIONS of dollars.
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