[Hatch]

According to Automotive News...

Analysts: New California emissions rules would raise prices about $3,000
DETROIT (Reuters) -- Automakers, already burdened with profit-eroding incentives and rising costs, face the expensive prospect of overhauling car and truck designs if California's reduced emissions rules go through, an auto industry group said on Monday.

I get the email but i cant log into this for some reason, if anyone knows any info it would be great.

Jeff

 

[lcarocha]

Why not declare Cali a hybrid-only state and get over the stupidity of changing emission laws everyweekend?

The way I see it that's where they are heading. I can signs posted on Cal state borders: "Please leave your internal combustion, smog contaminating junk here, your are enterin Hybrid heaven"

 

[Talisman]

Here ya go...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040924/ap_on_sc/greenhouse_emissions


Let me just be the first to say Cali sucks. Great place to visit. Horrible place to live if you are a car enthusiast.:thumbdown


I read in the latest Import Tuner the cops actually showed up at a Hot Import Nights in Cali event and towed peoples cars from the show. And the average fine for getting it back was like $7500. :disappoin

 

[Hatch]

Thanks Talisman

 

[atobe]

hey come on. i live in cali. it's only for new cars anyways. if u got a 88 camry like me it stays with 88 regulations not 2004

 

[alltrac165]

I've got no problem with it. Most of the regulations that are being changed relate to greenhouse gasses(which the automakers say don't exist: ) which indirectly will force higher fuel efficiency. So the major markets that will see any real changes are SUV's and higher end sports/muscle cars. Most of Toyota's offerings will likely see small changes, I'd bet. I say it's about time.
Naturally, the automakers are going apesh** over it cuz the SUV market has the biggest profit margins. I've never though that they should be classified as heavy trucks in the mileage and emissions area anyway. Most of these people driving them don't need anything near that big. Some of these things weigh over 6000 lbs. fer craps sake. But, that's just me. Cali is about 20% of the Domestic market, so it's a big deal. A few other states are considering the same regulations, such as NY. I say great. Looks like hybrid SUV's are going to get a bigger push.

 

[Talisman]

These new smog regualtions don't make a significant difference in the environment. Everyone is working on Hybrids anyway. Read the article and see how much of a difference it will make when it comes to gas output vs. the energy that will be needed to make ars meet these standards. They could be spending that time perfecting their hybrids.

That's not what would really bother me about Cali though. What would really get me is how anal the cops are over there about modified cars. Smog testing would bother the hell out of me(since we don't have it here in Michigan) and not so much because I couldn't pass but because of all these other rules connected to it.

For instance, not being able to swap certain engine into my car. Having to swap over USDM parts to a new engine if I did swap it. Having to get parts with CARB 50 state legal stickers. NOt being able to get anything better than 91 octane gas(we have 94 here)

In the new import tuner, the cop said that if you have a civic that cam with a 1.6 liter engine, swapping in a 1.8 liter of any year was illegal. If he was telling the truth, that's crazy. If he was lying than that means you will still get hassled and written up by ignorant cops which is still bull$hit. The fact that they entrap people and would have the balls to show up to a car show and tow away cars from the car show which very well could have been trailered there is completely rediculous. And then fines of up to 7000 dollars or more just to get your car back and then you still have to fix what they say is wrong with it?. That's completely assinine. I'll keep me and my modified car here in Detroit Michigan were we are the motor city and cops have better things to do with their lives and having a modifed car isn't seen as a crime.

 

[rapsux2000]

I figured that since we have a Republican Governor now, that we'd have less restrictions. I guess I was wrong. That blows.

 

[alltrac165]

^ I have to agree with Talisman 18 on how the laws are written. I think that tailpipe emissions should be all that count. All the mumbojumbo that is in place now sucks a$$. I'm all for cleaner air, but the laws are clearly not written just for that, but to protect the profit margins of anyone who develops a product that they can afford to get through the certification process.
BTW, you can put a bigger engine in from a newer year if it meets the newer years emissions standards. I just put a 3.4 in where a 3L was and it's all perfectly legal. You can't cross over vehicle classifications, though. Like you can't put a truck engine in a car, or a car engine in a truck and so on. The donor vehicle has to be the same smog classification type as the recipient, has to be the same year or newer, and the whole car must meet the newer standards.
Again, I think it should be tailpipe emissions only. If they want to put my car on a dyno and test it at different loads and rpms, fine, but I should be able to run anything I want in there if I can still be clean. Since it's only the tailpipe emissions we are really trying to curb anyway, I don't see why it's not written that way.

 

[Talisman]

^BTW, you can put a bigger engine in from a newer year if it meets the newer years emissions standards. I just put a 3.4 in where a 3L was and it's all perfectly legal.

Well see, that just shows how ignorant some cops are. I am sure all of them don't even know all the rules and I highly doubt when they pull you ever and get it wrong, they will see that you are right and let you win the argument. The laws in Cali are so complicated, their own people can't even get them right and it's not like it's doing anyone any good. Wait, I am sure the City's make a $hitload off all the bull$hit tickets they write and that is all the justification they need.:thumbdown

 

[Piddy]

No matter what they do... we will still be able to slip the ref $200 and be super for 2yrs

 

[alltrac165]

^:lol:

 

[theman86_2]

well yea some of it's b******t but it's only for new cars and the panel said it will tack on 1,000 per car, that the car companies exxagerated the number. All of us here agree we have a smog problem in cali right? we just don't agree on how to solve it.

 

[Rapeacivic]

I read the same Import Tuner and the cop said that they can still give you a ticket for CARB 50 State Legal porducts that are on your car :thumbdown

I think it's bullshit too that these laws are mostly aimed towards Modified vechiles:thumbdown What about all those huge SUV's that produce horrible gas mileage and are horrible for our environment:disappoin And what about all those old classic Muscle cars with the big V8's that have poor gas milage and produce 5 times worse emissions then most of our 4 bangers?

 

[xtychx]

Yeah, they can give you tickets for things that even have carb stickers. BUT, you should have seen the face of the last cop that tried that crap on me. The judge said he would report him to the police commissioner if he ever gave such a stupid ticket again. It was pretty funny.

It's really not that horrible. Like Russel says, bribing someone around here to pass you on smog is so easy that its not even funny. In addition, the cops are only assholes in certain areas. A lot of the areas of Cali, like where I live, could care less about modified cars and rarely bother us.

-xtychx

 

[conor]

I'm curious to see if one of the possible lawsuits will be against the State of California in regard to making law that applies in other states (a right that only the federal government has, constitutionally).

It can be argued that when California makes such mandates, that it affectively is making law in other states, which would be illegal...

And yes, the emissions regulations that go beyond tailpipe emissions are absurd. It shouldn't matter that I have/don't have crap on my engine so long as I'm emitting under the maximum limits...

And all of this crap applying to consumer automobiles and NOT things like off-road vehicles and (most significantly) law equipment, is even stupider... just think about all those gas-powered engines that drive lawnmowers, leaf blowers, line trimmers and on and on... not a damn thing on 'em to reduce emissions. And let's not forget our state/cities' fleets of smog-belching busses and oversized work vehicles (why do Caltrans roadworkers need Ford F350s to carry cones around with?)...

 

[ToyotaMan1281]

I know NY is a dumb state, but california is honestly the dumbest state.