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Discussion Starter #21
Bonehenge wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:16:54 -0800, TOM <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Oops, someone forgot to explain the gauges to her. Probably a little
>>training session would have gone a long way... :>))

>
>
> She wasn't my wife yet. I had just started dating her and got to be
> the person who found her a used engine and someone trustworthy to
> install it. It wasn't exactly a thankless job... ;^)


You are a lucky man, may the years be good to you and yours...
--
Tom - Vista, CA
 
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Discussion Starter #22
N Williamson wrote:
snip
>> Where your oil pressure gauge connects to the engine block buy a
>> double adapter for the hole and run a seperate oil pressure switch.
>> Wire directly to a nice bright LED somewhere in your vision and use
>> completely independant of any other system.
>>
>> Scotty

>
> I'll look into that - thank you.


You can't wire an LED directly to 12V source as it will burn out. It either
has to have a current limiting resistor in series or come packaged with the
resistor. There are LED's that are made as a package this way so make sure
that's what you get when you shop.
HTH, davidj92
 
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Discussion Starter #23
Why do you need an Oil Warning Light when you have an Oil Warning GUAGE? The
guagej is far superior to the light, and you don't need a crappy light to
back up what the excellent guage is telling you. Sheesh!

I've never had a car with both a light and a guage, and never one with a
buzzer. Watch the guage, and react to what it is doing, and you'll not need
either the light or the buzzer.




"N Williamson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Not sure why I just recently noticed this (maybe because I just changed
> the oil for the first time not long ago) but I think it sucks.
>
> My truck (2005 V8 std cab Tundra) has the panel with the tach, oil
> pressure, voltage etc. The manual is vague about a low oil pressure
> light with this particular dash arrangement but suggested if there's a
> gauge that a warning buzzer might be installed too. No light comes on
> during the initial key to on when all the other lights test. The tech at
> the dealer told me there is nothing except the gauge - no light and no
> buzzer. I think it's borderline irresponsible for them to have done
> this. I've had vehicles with gauges, but they always had a light as
> well because a light will catch your attention a lot quicker than a
> slowly fading gauge.
>
> Just a rant.
>
> Nate
>
> --
> *********************************************
> Why is it all the sensors seeking intelligent
> life are pointed away from earth?
> *********************************************
 
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Discussion Starter #24
On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 09:11:06 -0800, TOM <[email protected]> wrote:


>You are a lucky man, may the years be good to you and yours...


16 years and counting, all happy!
 
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Discussion Starter #25
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:39:47 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>I've never had a car with both a light and a guage, and never one with a
>buzzer. Watch the guage, and react to what it is doing, and you'll not need
>either the light or the buzzer.


Both are actually useful. Implementing both is neither difficult or
expensive.
 
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Discussion Starter #26
In article <[email protected]>,
Bonehenge <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 20:30:50 -0800, N Williamson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Perhaps so, but this further emphasizes the ease of understanding lights
> >more so than a gauge.

>
> Exactly. My wife's 300 had one of the earliest digital dashes. These
> were covered with LED displayed numbers. So many numbers, that the
> information gets lost. Did we really care if we had 9.5 gallons of
> gas or 9.1? <G> Newer digital dashes either display bar graphs,
> change the number color, or totally hide it unless it's not inside the
> normal range.
>
> Modern planes, locomotives, and even some road vehicles have gone to
> the "silent / dark" concept, where the computer hides normally reading
> instruments unless asked for a readout. If the instrument goes out of
> range, a master alarm is sounded and the instrument is displayed. This
> is an excellent example of the number AND light concept, developed to
> perfection.
>
> I'm also all for round gauges with colored ranges AND a light that
> comes on when things are critical. I fly aircraft (fixed wing, not
> "bugs" like the other poster to this thread. <G>), and needles in the
> wrong place stick out in my scan, while digital numbers often don't.
> Our better digital gauges have multi-color bar graphs in addition to
> the numbers. The numbers are for fine tuning, but you can quickly
> scan the color. Critical readings, like critically low oil pressure,
> alternator failures, high CHT, etc... also bring a nice, bright light.
>
> For needle gauges, I don't care if it's 15 or 25, just that the needle
> is pointing approximately where it should be. That's why race cars
> often have the gauges rotated so that the normal range is straight up.
> If a needle isn't straight up, you inspect it more closely.
>
> To the helicopter instructor:
> Do your simulators have colored ranges on the gauges, or simply
> digital numbers or a black steam gauge face, and a bottom limit light?


All types actually. Some have the chicklet light system (Marconi) - a
vertical array of grenn, amber and red lights, others have a simple
round (steam as you call it <g>) gauge. Of the round ones, some are set
up so if the needles are at 9 o'clock, all is fine, others are fixed.
All have colored range markings.


> The aircraft I typically fly have a colored background and sometimes
> even a dot at normal, making them extremely easy to notice a change
> during a scan. It's surprising to me that a helo would have an oil
> pressure gauge that's so easy to miss trends. It seems that if that
> 99% of the students miss the failure, it's time for a redesigned
> gauge. <G>


My assumption is you are referring to FW. I'm FW rated as well and it's
definitely 2 different worlds. No judgment here, but in the FW world
much time is spent cruising at altitude, unless you're doing aerobatics
etc. Just the opposite is true of helos - a major portion of the time
is spent near the dirt where attention is focused outside lest you run
into something. Especially true of military flying. On major
exercises, us helo guys were restricted to 300' and below and the FW
were 500' and above. Some helos don't even have gauges - just lights.
The other thing to is, at least on the machine I fly a lot now, the oil
pressure will fluctuate with power application and it's perfectly
normal. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the light is more
accurate on the low pressure side than the gauge.

Sorry about getting so far OT.

Nate

--
*********************************************
Why is it all the sensors seeking intelligent
life are pointed away from earth?
*********************************************
 
N

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Discussion Starter #27
In article <[email protected]>,
Skip <[email protected]> wrote:

> >
> >Is your Tundra a 2005?
> >
> >Where on the dash is your light? The manual simply groups all the
> >warning/service lights as '1'. I tried before to use a flashlight to
> >highlight the light by looking at an angle and saw the others but no
> >luck with the oil press light.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Nate

>
> Oops. Disregard. I typed Tundra but was thinking of my other truck.
> Sorry for the error.
>
> Skip


Banished forever!!! <g>

Nate
 
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Discussion Starter #28
"davidj92" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>N Williamson wrote:
> snip
>>> Where your oil pressure gauge connects to the engine block buy a
>>> double adapter for the hole and run a seperate oil pressure switch.
>>> Wire directly to a nice bright LED somewhere in your vision and use
>>> completely independant of any other system.
>>>
>>> Scotty

>>
>> I'll look into that - thank you.

>
> You can't wire an LED directly to 12V source as it will burn out. It
> either has to have a current limiting resistor in series or come packaged
> with the resistor. There are LED's that are made as a package this way so
> make sure that's what you get when you shop.
> HTH, davidj92
>

Just pop into your local electronics store and ask for a superbright 10mm
LED and bezel and a 550ohm resisitor (if they are pretty cluey ask them for
the best value as this depends on the LED but your pretty safe with 550
Ohm.)
 
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Discussion Starter #29
"Bonehenge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:39:47 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I've never had a car with both a light and a guage, and never one with a
>>buzzer. Watch the guage, and react to what it is doing, and you'll not
>>need
>>either the light or the buzzer.

>
> Both are actually useful. Implementing both is neither difficult or
> expensive.
>
>
>

Well, you are right enough, but I see no point. I watch my guages as I
drive, and I see no use in a light to tell you the guage reads zero, or
whatever it takes to turn the light on. Personally, I'd be alarmed long
before the light came on.
 
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Discussion Starter #30
On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:15:48 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Bonehenge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:39:47 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:


>>>I've never had a car with both a light and a guage, and never one with a
>>>buzzer. Watch the guage, and react to what it is doing, and you'll not
>>>need either the light or the buzzer.

>>
>> Both are actually useful. Implementing both is neither difficult or
>> expensive.

>
>Well, you are right enough, but I see no point. I watch my guages as I
>drive, and I see no use in a light to tell you the guage reads zero, or
>whatever it takes to turn the light on. Personally, I'd be alarmed long
>before the light came on.


The warning light isn't there for you, or anyone who actually checks
their dashboard gauges on a regular basis.

The light is there for all the Teenagers and Soccer Moms, the
Pointy-Haired Bosses and middle managers who will be driving that car
- the people who don't know or care what a gauge is. The people who
don't even know how to open the hood and check the oil, the people
that pay for Full Serve gas.

All they know is "When the red light comes on, you pull over and
stop the engine, and call for help."

Maybe.

You hope.

After the smoke clouds from under the hood get their attention.

<Humor Alert - some slightly over-the-top thinking ahead>

If I was engineering a car, they'd have both gauges and lights - and
a safety system featuring voice prompt recordings by Majel Barrett
Roddenberry.

(Unfortunately Jack Wagner is no longer available to do it. As in
"Remain Seated, Please; Permanecer Sentados, Por Favor." Jack Who?
http://legends.disney.go.com/legends/detail?key=Jack+Wagner and you'll
find out, you heathen!) ;-P

The EFI Computer already monitors several senders on the engine. It
would be trivial to add a few more sense points (radiator temp, block
coolant temp and pressure, oil level in sump, trans temp and the line
pressure at several points) and have a sub-system monitor all critical
systems - and warn the clueless when they were out of range, before
the trouble starts. And if you ignore the advance warnings, you get:

<Bong!> "Warning: Engine Oil Pressure Failure - Engine Oil Level
Critical Low. Engine Shutdown in thirty seconds, pull over to a safe
stopping location immediately or push the "Emergency Override" button
now to continue." <Bong!> "Engine Shutdown in twenty seconds, pull
over to a safe stopping location..." <Bong!> "Engine shutdown in
ten, nine, eight, seven, six..."

And the computer records the Override button pushes in NVRAM along
with the trip data - because you know that's the person who was late
to work and wanted to keep going, and who'll try a warranty claim on
the seized motor.

--<< Bruce >>--

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
 
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Discussion Starter #31
Sorry. I think the rant is unfounded. I prefer a gauge to the 'idiot
light' and buzzer arrangement for this reason: by the time the light
comes on, usually at 6-8 PSI, the damage to the engine has been done.
The gauge tells you what is going with the pressure, and you can tell a
lot about the actual condition of the oil system. The idiot light just
tells you the when the engine is done for.

Trust me, learn how to scan the gauges as you drive to monitor the
engine. You'll avoid a lot of expensive, truck-killing damage by
learning the gauges and avoiding relying on 'idiot lights'.

N Williamson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Not sure why I just recently noticed this (maybe because I just
> changed the oil for the first time not long ago) but I think it sucks.
>
> My truck (2005 V8 std cab Tundra) has the panel with the tach, oil
> pressure, voltage etc. The manual is vague about a low oil pressure
> light with this particular dash arrangement but suggested if there's a
> gauge that a warning buzzer might be installed too. No light comes on
> during the initial key to on when all the other lights test. The tech
> at the dealer told me there is nothing except the gauge - no light and
> no buzzer. I think it's borderline irresponsible for them to have
> done this. I've had vehicles with gauges, but they always had a light
> as well because a light will catch your attention a lot quicker than a
> slowly fading gauge.
>
> Just a rant.
>
> Nate
>
 
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Discussion Starter #32
"Bruce L. Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:15:48 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>"Bonehenge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:39:47 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:

>
>>>>I've never had a car with both a light and a guage, and never one with a
>>>>buzzer. Watch the guage, and react to what it is doing, and you'll not
>>>>need either the light or the buzzer.
>>>
>>> Both are actually useful. Implementing both is neither difficult or
>>> expensive.

>>
>>Well, you are right enough, but I see no point. I watch my guages as I
>>drive, and I see no use in a light to tell you the guage reads zero, or
>>whatever it takes to turn the light on. Personally, I'd be alarmed long
>>before the light came on.

>
> The warning light isn't there for you, or anyone who actually checks
> their dashboard gauges on a regular basis.
>
> The light is there for all the Teenagers and Soccer Moms, the
> Pointy-Haired Bosses and middle managers who will be driving that car
> - the people who don't know or care what a gauge is. The people who
> don't even know how to open the hood and check the oil, the people
> that pay for Full Serve gas.
>
> All they know is "When the red light comes on, you pull over and
> stop the engine, and call for help."
>


Perhaps that is true and explains why they put the idiot light in. But the
OP seemed to think he had been short changed because he got a guage instead
of a light. I see no reason to have both, and I prefer a guage if I get to
choose.
 
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Discussion Starter #33
Scotty wrote:
snip
> Just pop into your local electronics store and ask for a superbright
> 10mm LED and bezel and a 550ohm resisitor (if they are pretty cluey
> ask them for the best value as this depends on the LED but your
> pretty safe with 550 Ohm.)


Sounds like a plan to me. They make indicator lights for autos that are LED
and have the resistor packaged in them so all you have to do is wire them
in, I used some as added brake lights on my Harley. I just wanted to make
sure someone didn't get a plain LED and wire it in direct. :)
davidj92
 
N

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Discussion Starter #34
In article <[email protected]>,
ccoles <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sorry. I think the rant is unfounded. I prefer a gauge to the 'idiot
> light' and buzzer arrangement for this reason: by the time the light
> comes on, usually at 6-8 PSI, the damage to the engine has been done.
> The gauge tells you what is going with the pressure, and you can tell a
> lot about the actual condition of the oil system. The idiot light just
> tells you the when the engine is done for.
>
> Trust me, learn how to scan the gauges as you drive to monitor the
> engine. You'll avoid a lot of expensive, truck-killing damage by
> learning the gauges and avoiding relying on 'idiot lights'.


Perhaps the rant is unfounded in your opinion, but it is my preference.

The gauge has no PSI markings, no red area, no green area...just divided
into four equal areas like a fuel gauge...only it has no markings. In
fact, it is the only gauge without markings or a backup idiot light or
both. The manual indicates range(s) where the gauge should be for
various conditions which must then be committed to memory because as I
said, the gauge gives no indication of normal range. So I default back
to a correctly adjusted sensor and light to let me know when it is
considered as in the 'red' zone. I do like having a gauge, but I feel a
light (as I'm an idiot of sorts I reckon) is a more critical feature to
have.

--
*********************************************
Why is it all the sensors seeking intelligent
life are pointed away from earth?
*********************************************
 
N

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Discussion Starter #35
In article <[email protected]>,
"Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Bruce L. Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:15:48 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >>"Bonehenge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]
> >>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:39:47 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:

> >
> >>>>I've never had a car with both a light and a guage, and never one with a
> >>>>buzzer. Watch the guage, and react to what it is doing, and you'll not
> >>>>need either the light or the buzzer.
> >>>
> >>> Both are actually useful. Implementing both is neither difficult or
> >>> expensive.
> >>
> >>Well, you are right enough, but I see no point. I watch my guages as I
> >>drive, and I see no use in a light to tell you the guage reads zero, or
> >>whatever it takes to turn the light on. Personally, I'd be alarmed long
> >>before the light came on.

> >
> > The warning light isn't there for you, or anyone who actually checks
> > their dashboard gauges on a regular basis.
> >
> > The light is there for all the Teenagers and Soccer Moms, the
> > Pointy-Haired Bosses and middle managers who will be driving that car
> > - the people who don't know or care what a gauge is. The people who
> > don't even know how to open the hood and check the oil, the people
> > that pay for Full Serve gas.
> >
> > All they know is "When the red light comes on, you pull over and
> > stop the engine, and call for help."
> >

>
> Perhaps that is true and explains why they put the idiot light in. But the
> OP seemed to think he had been short changed because he got a guage instead
> of a light. I see no reason to have both, and I prefer a guage if I get to
> choose.


I don't feel shortchanged really, but given a choice of one or the
other, I'd take the light. It's unusual to see the arrangement of gauge
and no light these days.

The universal understanding of a red light is undeniable for the most
part. So when the wife, daughter, son, friend or whomever borrow the
truck and see a red light come on, they pretty much know what to do -
pull over.

Now, if the gauge had some range markings of red, or amber, or green, or
numbers - *something* to give it relevant reference, that'd be easier to
accept and explain to others before lending it out. I consider a lost
of oil pressure the worst thing that can happen to the engine, and it's
the one system I'm provided the least information about. It just boils
down to added protection.

Voltmeter - range markings AND a light
Coolant gauge - Red area AND a light
Fuel gauge - equal divisions AND a light

It's probably all for not anyway. The vehicles these days are built
quite well. Knock on wood, in 34 years of driving I've never had a blow
out, a flat while running, oil pressure loss, run out of fuel, an
overheated engine....nothing except a clutch cable snapped on a VW I had.

Appreciate al the discussion and tips. It's what Usenet is about I
reckon.

Nate
 

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Not sure why I just recently noticed this (maybe because I just changed
the oil for the first time not long ago) but I think it sucks.

My truck (2005 V8 std cab Tundra) has the panel with the tach, oil
pressure, voltage etc. The manual is vague about a low oil pressure
light with this particular dash arrangement but suggested if there's a
gauge that a warning buzzer might be installed too. No light comes on
during the initial key to on when all the other lights test. The tech at
the dealer told me there is nothing except the gauge - no light and no
buzzer. I think it's borderline irresponsible for them to have done
this. I've had vehicles with gauges, but they always had a light as
well because a light will catch your attention a lot quicker than a
slowly fading gauge.

Just a rant.

Nate

Hi Nate or whomever is reading this 5 years later!

I have been searching (Feb 2011) for this topic as I was just looking at a 2006 Tundra double cab and noticed the same thing. This specific owner's manual is crap for warning light information, which is really uncharacteristic of Toyota owner's manuals. The truth, however, lies in the 2005 model update literature known as "New Car Features" (NCF). It is a part of a Toyota technical service information subscription; with this subscription you can look up every published repair doc since 1990.

NCF for the 2005 Tundra actually illustrates the position of all warning lights (as the owner's manual *should* have done) and shows the difference between the 'with' and 'without' tachometer options. Your dash comes with tach so it uses a gauge rather than a warning light. The version without tach uses a warning light but no gauge. BTW the reason I looked up 2005 is that they only detail new features one time, the year they come out. This dash arrangements were updated in 2005 and are identical to 2006.

Also I believe the "guage" that you have is actually a glorified idiot light with some clever programming to make it seem to respond to engine temp and RPM. I say this because service info indicates that the sender unit is merely a switch, yet the gauge does appear to fluctuate like a real gauge would when coupled with a real pressure sensor. If nothing else, the gauge certainly acts "dampened" in it's operation, yet it is driven by a stepper motor, not a conventional magnetic field, so "gauge dampening" would be a fruitless endeavor, further making me believe there is software that is modifying the gauge motor's position to simulate a real functional gauge setup.

It's unbelievable the lengths manufacturers have gone to dumb down oil and temp "gauges" so the owner doesn't see the random needle excursions that normally occur on occasion.

HTH with future searches on the subject.
 
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