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Discussion Starter #1
Ok so now the question becomes if I do go with a 4AGZE or 4AGE 20-valve and do an engine swap, can either of these bolt right up to the stock 5-speed in there now? because I will be able to buy an engine or a tranny, not both at the same time.....and if I go with the engine the nI wanna still be able to drive the car around while I get more cash for the tranny and others....I can get a 4AGE 20vavle silver top for about $700 or a 4AGZE for about the same price...

by the way I believe my car has the red and black lettering on the silver cam covers...lettering is BLACK, "1600cc" is RED....which 4AGE is this? 120hp stock right?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ae86polishman said:
both are good engine its up to u ihave a 4agez

That is true....I guess it doesn't really matter either way....Maybe I'll go for the 4AGE 20 valve since I hate turbos and S/C's but I digress.....
 

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89TweenKam said:
Ok so now the question becomes if I do go with a 4AGZE or 4AGE 20-valve and do an engine swap, can either of these bolt right up to the stock 5-speed in there now?

Anyone?
 

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the engine is a bigport 4age.... 115hp (in the later 88-89 years.... before 88 was 112hp..... you'll hear 2 figures..... and arguements between 112 and 115.... 115 was the later bigports with the heavier 7 rib block, but the bigger injectors)

as for what to go with... that's up to you.... if you choose 20V... i would suggest finding a smallport 16V and using the rest of the cash to modify the motor.....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
toyotaspeed90 said:
as for what to go with... that's up to you.... if you choose 20V... i would suggest finding a smallport 16V and using the rest of the cash to modify the motor.....

Yeah I figured out after I posted which 4AGE I had....but I was wondering if the stock 5-speed will be able to handle the 20-valve, or will I have to replace the 5-speed with one from a 20-valve car....I thought since the only real difference between the stock 4AGE and the 20-valve is the head....everything else should be the same so it should bolt right up to the stock tranny with no problems.....I hope anyway....less work to do....
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Chris Corolla S said:
Do you have any actual reasoning for this opinion?

Yes I do....Most of the people I know that do work to their cars immediately go straight for a turbo without even considering doing any other options. They all feel that by adding a turbo they don't have to worry about anything else and if they only use about 7-9lbs of boost then they dont need any real engine work done, which is true to a point. I said it earlier in another thread, I don't want something making power for my engine, I want my engine making power....do you see the difference. My main motivation is to do something that not alot of other people have done.

This is why I chose the Corolla, besides being a great car, not alot of these are being used on the streets as racers....most ppl have Honduhs, Shitsubishi's and Stuporbu's.....I don't see alot of Toyota's or Nissan's.....I wanted to stand out....So since then I decided no turbos and no S/C's. I mis-spoke when I said I hated them.....I should've said that they just aren't for me.....not the avenue I wanna take
 

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89TweenKam said:
Yes I do....Most of the people I know that do work to their cars immediately go straight for a turbo without even considering doing any other options. They all feel that by adding a turbo they don't have to worry about anything else and if they only use about 7-9lbs of boost then they dont need any real engine work done, which is true to a point. I said it earlier in another thread, I don't want something making power for my engine, I want my engine making power....do you see the difference. My main motivation is to do something that not alot of other people have done.

This is why I chose the Corolla, besides being a great car, not alot of these are being used on the streets as racers....most ppl have Honduhs, Shitsubishi's and Stuporbu's.....I don't see alot of Toyota's or Nissan's.....I wanted to stand out....So since then I decided no turbos and no S/C's. I mis-spoke when I said I hated them.....I should've said that they just aren't for me.....not the avenue I wanna take
sell you car and buy a 6Cyl or a V8 if that's your attitude. not saying it can't be done, but it'll cost double to get a n/a 4cyl to where a turbo or s/c 4cyl will be at.

nevertheless, our cars can be made relatively quick on any race platform without using forced induction, and be made super-duper quick... but why make things more dificult for yourself and spend all that money?

and did you read the light tune guide that i posted on your previous topic?

http://www.club4ag.com/faq and tech_pages/ae92_light_tuning_guide.htm

start out with this, see how your car performs, THEN make big plans.


it's not like youre going to buy a turbo or bore out your car or do something crazy to RIGHT NOW.

youre at a stage before me: what i want to do, is lightly tune my car (intake, headers, exhaust)... and then ill go from there, whether itll be a JDM GZE clip or a full-on 20v swap.

why do you think ae92's in japan were given a GZE? toyota engineers had enough common sense to add speed to their car, beit forced induction or not to make their already peppy downhill and circuit racers even faster.

drop 10K on a n/a 4A-GE-16v and it'll run 12's.

drop 5k on a n/a 440 and it'll run 11's.

(random figure, it's just to get my point across.)

and there's nothing wrong with any other car that goes zoom. a fast car is a fast car, whether it be a honda or not.

i would reccomend not generating a pre-hate hate towards honda's, mitsubishi's or subaru's, or any car in general. it's just like imports vs. domestics thing - except this is which import is considered rice.

it sounds like youre most probably in high school. IMO? setup your car for where you wanna go and how fast you you want to do it. forced induction or not. rather than ignoring an option of a GZE swap or a turbo, feel free to bolt it on and then laugh at your friends who can ONLY run 9 psi without blowing their engine.

depending on where you live, i doubt there are any 13-low 14 second street cars at your school.

but if you reaaaally want an n/a engine then that's fine - whatever makes you happy. but thats a bit juvenile reason to not used forced induction.

/end
 

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jayboogie said:
sell you car and buy a 6Cyl or a V8 if that's your attitude. not saying it can't be done, but it'll cost double to get a n/a 4cyl to where a turbo or s/c 4cyl will be at.

nevertheless, our cars can be made relatively quick on any race platform without using forced induction, and be made super-duper quick... but why make things more dificult for yourself and spend all that money?

and did you read the light tune guide that i posted on your previous topic?

http://www.club4ag.com/faq and tech_pages/ae92_light_tuning_guide.htm

start out with this, see how your car performs, THEN make big plans.


it's not like youre going to buy a turbo or bore out your car or do something crazy to RIGHT NOW.

youre at a stage before me: what i want to do, is lightly tune my car (intake, headers, exhaust)... and then ill go from there, whether itll be a JDM GZE clip or a full-on 20v swap.

why do you think ae92's in japan were given a GZE? toyota engineers had enough common sense to add speed to their car, beit forced induction or not to make their already peppy downhill and circuit racers even faster.

drop 10K on a n/a 4A-GE-16v and it'll run 12's.

drop 5k on a n/a 440 and it'll run 11's.

(random figure, it's just to get my point across.)

and there's nothing wrong with any other car that goes zoom. a fast car is a fast car, whether it be a honda or not.

i would reccomend not generating a pre-hate hate towards honda's, mitsubishi's or subaru's, or any car in general. it's just like imports vs. domestics thing - except this is which import is considered rice.

it sounds like youre most probably in high school. IMO? setup your car for where you wanna go and how fast you you want to do it. forced induction or not. rather than ignoring an option of a GZE swap or a turbo, feel free to bolt it on and then laugh at your friends who can ONLY run 9 psi without blowing their engine.

depending on where you live, i doubt there are any 13-low 14 second street cars at your school.

but if you reaaaally want an n/a engine then that's fine - whatever makes you happy. but thats a bit juvenile reason to not used forced induction.

/end
OK first of all, I'm not in High School, I'm no longer in college either.....I happen to be 27 and my reasons for not using forced induction are of no concern to this anyway, Chris S asked and I answered....You missed the point of my WHOLE discussion, I don't want horsepower on par with a turbo or S/C, I want N/A. I don't feel that a car as small as this needs 300+ HP. I figured on swapping out to a silvertop 20v, that jumps me immediately to 165hp from 120hp. Now, if I rework the cams, intake, exhaust, and all that happy stuff then I'll be up to I guessed around 220hp. I'm probably overshooting but oh well....Thats where I wanna be....I said it repeatedly....I DO NOT WANT A FULL OUT RACECAR!!!!!!!!!!! I want something thats fast but I can still take on the road...thsi is my daily driver....

Yes I read the light tuning thing....I even printed it out to keep a copy.....good ideas....but not MY ideas....do you see?....the WHOLE point to this was to try something not alot of people are doing....most of you have turbos or a S/C, Right? Well I don't want them...

And your comment on what I said about other cars...who the F are you to tell me what I can and cannot say about other vehicles....If I feel like saying all cars that are NOT Toyotas eat a dick, well then I can say it because its my F-in opinion...besides I wrote that to try to get a few laughs from you people...most of you are WAY to uptight about this crap....its a car...more importantly its MY car...what I do and what I want are for me and no one else.....all I asked for was a little help from some educated ppl....people who have been thru it and know a hell of a lot more than me....and explain to me how wanting a N/A engine is juvenile reasoning for not wanting forced induction as you put it...

Let me put it into perspective for you....one of the reasons I chose a Corolla was because a '68 Superbee or any true muscle car from the 50s, 60s, or 70s would cost triple to work over.....

I'm sorry I got a little rude right there, I must apologize, you struck a chord there,I just don't like ppl questioning my opinions when all they know is what they read....you don't feel the same as me on this, well I commend you for having the guts to say it....
 

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You may be 27 but you still haven't learned to have a discussion without resorting to the "eat a dick" response. Please try to post what you think without doing that. Sometimes it's best to post nothing if someone pushes your buttons. Please refer to the rules.

Now let's get back on topic, please jayboogie and others refrain from flaming back at 89TweenCam here.
 

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"I figured on swapping out to a silvertop 20v, that jumps me immediately to 165hp from 120hp."

That figure is grossly overblown. If you are paitient enough to filter through it, read the 20V discussion thread here where a link is posted to a club4ag thread. In it an AE102 Corolla swapped from a 4a-fe to a Silvertop and put down around 100 HP at the wheels on a manual transmission.

If I were you I would stick with your 16V 4a-ge and work on raising the compression with pistons, maybe shave the head a bit, put in some 727 cams or whatever, full exhaust, MSD, I think you could get 120-170 whp with a built 16v. Maybe you could also lose some weight, if you are brave, you could pull the power steering pump, pull the A/C, etc. But that's probably not what your after since you say this is a DD.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Chris Corolla S said:
You may be 27 but you still haven't learned to have a discussion without resorting to the "eat a dick" response. Please try to post what you think without doing that. Sometimes it's best to post nothing if someone pushes your buttons. Please refer to the rules.

Now let's get back on topic, please jayboogie and others refrain from flaming back at 89TweenCam here.
Sorry for that, I did get way off topic there...but I was trying to make them understand I'm here to learn all that you guys are willing to teach me so if I say something stupid...please do not take it to heart....I have never worked on a car before, I have never stripped and engine just to rebuild it....and so on....that is why I have my bro who IS a mechanic/fabricator helping me with techie stuff so as we do this I learn how to do it all myself....And the eat a "D" comment was not necessary but I was trying to make a point that my opinions are my own and no one else really has the right to question what I feel.....I was getting attacked,well not really attacked, from many angles from many people here and they all said the same things.....and questioned my motives for doing what I wanna do...now if I was talking about doing all this to THEIR cars, then I could see them putting in their 2 cents...but no, I asked about MY car.....and what I want to do.....and what would be the best course of action for me to go....instead I get berated by people telling me I'm basically a moron for even thinking that I could pull all this off without a turbo.....


Dammit...I got off topic again.....


This is what I wanted to say:

Sorry Chris, Sorry jayboogie and Sorry to all of you loyal Toyota fans that had to put up with my NOOB crap....be gentle and don't talk about me too much behind my back....

Remember we are all in this together and for the same basic reason....to see Toyota's dominate no matter where they may be driven.....Love and Peace to all of you is how I'll end this thread....
 

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89TweenKam said:
I was trying to make a point that my opinions are my own and no one else really has the right to question what I feel.....I was getting attacked,well not really attacked, from many angles from many people here and they all said the same things.....and questioned my motives for doing what I wanna do...
Did you think why everyone said the same things?


89TweenKam said:
now if I was talking about doing all this to THEIR cars, then I could see them putting in their 2 cents...but no, I asked about MY car.....and what I want to do.....and what would be the best course of action for me to go....instead I get berated by people telling me I'm basically a moron for even thinking that I could pull all this off without a turbo.....

They were trying to help you based on what they thought was the best way to do it. No one said you were a moron. Everyone was pretty polite. If you admit that you have never done anything like this, then why have you made up your mind about how you want to do it without doing more research first. I think what you want to do is fine and dandy and is not stupid. Keep reading and you will figure out what you want specifically.
 

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89TweenKam said:
Now, if I rework the cams, intake, exhaust, and all that happy stuff then I'll be up to I guessed around 220hp. I'm probably overshooting but oh well....Thats where I wanna be....I said it repeatedly....I DO NOT WANT A FULL OUT RACECAR!!!!!!!!!!! I want something thats fast but I can still take on the road...thsi is my daily driver....

repeat this to yourself:

a 220hp N/A 4AGE (i don't care what top you have) will NOT be daily driveable.

Just the price of GAS alone (cuz you WILL be needing at LEAST 100 octane if not 104) will empty your wallet in a hurry.

I hope you have some idea of what it'll take to push a silvertop towards the 200 mark, nevermind the 220 mark.

On a side note:

YOU asked people for advice, well next time you do that, make sure you can take criticism before you ask. It seems to me that you were just trying to get people to agree with you instead of truly listening to what people had to say.

If that is the case, why'd you bother asking to begin with; some people on here for all we know could have travelled down that path or have known people who have done so and are advising you against it. There's gotta be a reason why people are saying it's not the most logical way; but if you've got money burning a big hole in YOUR wallet, who are we to stop you?;)

Edit part 2:

Your signature alone displays your ignorance. People who bashes on Hondas have seriously got to visit their regional Honda Challenge races, or better yet compete with them.

Then you'll know just exactly how "fast" the toyota is compared to the Hondas.
 

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well like chris said, everyone said the same thing for the same reason. to help.

if youre looking for something extremely unique, youll never find it.

everyone who sets up their car starts with exactly the same thing: intake > headers > exhaust system.

no way to get around that. it makes your car breathe easier and paves the way towards future mods, whatever they may be.

like i said, n/a or turbo, s/c or tt, you should follow the light tuning guide... if not verbatim then close. read the information and understand why 2-1/4" inch piping is better than 3".

these guides are made by pros, so in turn, theyre priceless.
good information is priceless, AND FREE, and should not be ignored.

thats it, good luck on tuning your car.
 

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**whew, long posts guys! i must say this first, Chris, you rock for not blowing up in this thread, too much hatred and ignorance in here!**

89TweenKam said:
My main motivation is to do something that not alot of other people have done.
your motivation is good but everything you can think of someone might have tried it already, unless you invent something then that's the only time you'll stand out.


89TweenKam said:
This is why I chose the Corolla, besides being a great car, not alot of these are being used on the streets as racers....most ppl have Honduhs, Shitsubishi's and Stuporbu's.....I don't see alot of Toyota's or Nissan's.....I wanted to stand out....
in Jersey? you gotta be kidding me. you know how many Corollas from KEs to AEs i've seen in Jersey the last i was there? a lot. so unless you have an F20 (S2000) on an AE86 then you won't stand out... oh, wait that's been done too!

89TweenKam said:
I don't feel that a car as small as this needs 300+ HP. I figured on swapping out to a silvertop 20v, that jumps me immediately to 165hp from 120hp. Now, if I rework the cams, intake, exhaust, and all that happy stuff then I'll be up to I guessed around 220hp. I'm probably overshooting but oh well....Thats where I wanna be....I said it repeatedly....I DO NOT WANT A FULL OUT RACECAR!!!!!!!!!!! I want something thats fast but I can still take on the road...thsi is my daily driver....
whatever you're smoking i want some.... Chris and MR1 already pointed this out, no way in hell the 20V silvertop produces 160hp. i'd be lucky if i get 120whp on mine (stock). and just for arguments sake (and no one has even said anything about this yet so i'll do it), let's say your car now is laying 200whp, have you ever thought of how much chassis reinforcements you need, plus the brakes and suspension? buddy you're talking a lot of hp for a car that came out of the factory intended for just a mere 90/100whp.


89TweenKam... my friend i know what you're going through, a lot of us went through the same. we all learned and some like me the hard way. i went as far as going with carbs to going back to EFI. trust me the reason some of us are giving this to you straight up is so you can see through our eyes what it takes to reach your goal. NO ONE here will disagree with me when i say NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE but how much are you willing to spend just make a point? FYI, i don't know how you're gonna drive a 200whp on the road, with the stop and go traffic.

ask yourself this... how much hp are those guys running on the professional circuit with NA rides? and how much do i need to spend to do the same thing? there's a big reason why those guys get big time sponsors you know. i can tell you one thing, i you don't believe me, just go down to Englishtown when they have an event and ask the Puerto Ricans with Starlets and Corollas why did they go FI instead of just NA? PEACE bro! :)
 

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89TweenKam said:
Ok so now the question becomes if I do go with a 4AGZE or 4AGE 20-valve and do an engine swap, can either of these bolt right up to the stock 5-speed in there now? because I will be able to buy an engine or a tranny, not both at the same time.....and if I go with the engine the nI wanna still be able to drive the car around while I get more cash for the tranny and others....I can get a 4AGE 20vavle silver top for about $700 or a 4AGZE for about the same price...
I got this off topic asking about a side comment.

Try the search button:)
:http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/s...d=170397&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
 

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The Return of the Red Coupe
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forgetting all the other bashing and etc.. the most naturally aspirated hp you're gonna get out of a 16V 4AGE, and that's considering this will require extensive amounts of work and swapping some parts for high performance (cams, pistons, etc) will probably be about 200hp at the wheels or about 250hp advertised. Its been done but at a cost, there's a man in my city.. just outside of Toronto who does work on 4AGE's and he did some motors for racing that where advertised to be about 250hp.
 
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