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But, but I thought dealerships are bad, scrum of the earth trying annoy and rip off all their customers?
I never said that, but I agree with much of what you said there. I was trying to go to the dealer for oil changes (the prices were fair for that), but I was going to Valvoline when it was more convenient. After my oil change incident at Valvoline, I was only going to the dealer. Then, I had some really questionable experiences with the dealer. This all inspired me to service my car myself. My car hasn't needed too much, but I expect there will be issues in the future that I cannot fix. So, I will need to start looking for a good mechanic.
 

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Lower viscosity means thinner oil.

Yes...lower viscosity. And no I am not wrong.

Look at chart in the url below. The viscosity of a 40 weight oil at 150 degrees is 3.7. The viscosity of 0 weight oil at 100 degrees is 3.8. The lower the number the thinner the oil.

Just out of curiosity, and with some free time, I checked the url you listed. It's obvious that your reading comprehension is lacking. The 3.7 you quoted for 40 weight oil at 150 degree is in a different unit: "mPa.s" vs the 3.8 "mm²/s " for the 0 weight oil.
A real comparison is between 20 vs 30 vs 40. It's true that the lower the number, the thinner the oil. Just that you reach the conclusion via the wrong assumption.
SAE Viscosity Grade[°C] Min. Viscosity [mm²/s] at 100 °C Max. Viscosity [mm²/s] at 100 °C High Shear Rate Viscosity [mPa.s] at 150 °C
20 5.6 <9.3 2.6
30 9.3 <12.5 2.9
40 12.5 <16.3 2.9 *
40 12.5 <16.3 3.7 **
 

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I checked the url you listed. It's obvious that your reading comprehension is lacking. The 3.7 you quoted for 40 weight oil at 150 degree is in a different unit: "mPa.s" vs the 3.8 "mm²/s " for the 0 weight oil.
mm^2/s (or cP) is used for to report Viscosity at Cold Temps. The mPa*s (or cSt) is used to report Viscosity at High temps.
 

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different units, not 1 to 1 conversion, thus your comparison of numbers doesn't hold up.
But it is very close to 1:1 ratio. The ratio for engine oils (or any hydrocarbon fluid is (from 1:.85 to 1:.9). So if you do the calculation conversion you'll see that the 0 weight oil when cold has a cSt viscosity of 4.2 (cP of 3.8 div .9). Or the 40 weight oil has a cSt of 3.7 or a cP of 3.33.

So I stand by my statement that 40 weight oil when at normal engine operating temps is THINNER (lower Viscosity) then 0 weight oil at cold temps.


 

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Hi Everyone,

I just went to have my oil changed at valvoline instant oil change and they wouldn't let me use 5W-20 as the specs called for 0W-20 synthetic. This was quite a big price difference and if I'm required to use it, I will do my own oil changes.

Regardless if I use 5w-20 or 0w-20, I will change the oil every 5k. The owner's manual says to use 0w-20, but you can use 5w-20 in a pinch and next oil change use 0w-20. On the other hand, the maintenance log notes at every 5k interval to change the oil if 0w-20 wasn't used.

What do you all do? If I do oil changes at every 5k, is it OK to use 5w-20 all of the time?

Thank you in advance!
NO, do not use 5w20, any engine that calls for 0w anything needs that oil. these engines use the oil to do things that other engines don't. like valve timing and weird stuff
 

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Doesn't that depend on how cold is "cold"? What about at 70 F?
If you take a look at the charts on the the URL's I provided the first column is actually when the temps are ate 100 C or 212 F. At lower temps the 0W-40 has a much much higher Viscosity then -W-40 at higher temps.
 

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NO, do not use 5w20, any engine that calls for 0w anything needs that oil. these engines use the oil to do things that other engines don't. like valve timing and weird stuff
The reason why Toyota specified 0W-20 is that they wanted to require synthetic motor oil, and they didn't want to use the word "synthetic" due to the perception that synthetic motor oil changes increases the cost of ownership. There are no conventional motor oils that meet 0W-20 specifications.

The only difference between a synthetic 0W-20 and synthetic 5W-20 is that at engine start up, the 0W will flow a little fast in very cold weather. But that only lasts a few seconds. But if one lives where temperatures consistently get below about 20 F when the car is started (and car is not stored in a garage), then I would use 0W-20.

At normal engine operating temperatures, a 0W-20 and a 5W-20 will perform virtually the same (if they are both a synthetic motor oil of the same brand).
 

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Mobil1 0w40 12.9 cSt at 212°F
Mobil1 0w20 44.8 cSt at 104°F
Looks like the hot 0w40 is thinner than the cool 0w20.

Mobil1 5w20 conventional 15,100 at -31°F
Mobil1 0w40 synthetic 21,600 at -40°F So, if you cool the 5w20 a little, or warm the 0w40 a little, the cold weather MRV is pretty much the same.

The above should help some as too many here are posting misinformation.
1. Your engine won't do weird stuff or have valve timing issues.
2. You can use 5w20 when 0w20 isn't available.
3. You can use a higher grade oil, weather permitting, or driving style permitting. From what my 3 different 2gr owners manuals state:
An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.
Neither "high" or "extreme" are defined, nor is "lifetime". Typical useless speak from the tech writers at Toyota that write manuals. Engineers don't pick your oil grade or maintenance interval. EPA and marketing do. You should ask Toyota who writes the owners manual. You'd be surprised at their skill set, or lack of!
4. Its not best to follow what the manufacturer recommends. Its best to use some common sense and adapt your oil grade/type/interval to YOUR driving styles and expectations of the vehicle's life. And, adjust to the known issues with the engine. Many here have already cried at their oil consumption, startup noise, or other issues. You reap what you sow because you can't think for yourself.

My 2GR's can take 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 0w20 in the manuals. The difference among the engine specs and bearings clearances... .NONE!
 

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Mobil1 0w40 12.9 cSt at 212°F
Mobil1 0w20 44.8 cSt at 104°F
Looks like the hot 0w40 is thinner than the cool 0w20.

Mobil1 5w20 conventional 15,100 at -31°F
Mobil1 0w40 synthetic 21,600 at -40°F So, if you cool the 5w20 a little, or warm the 0w40 a little, the cold weather MRV is pretty much the same.

The above should help some as too many here are posting misinformation.
1. Your engine won't do weird stuff or have valve timing issues.
2. You can use 5w20 when 0w20 isn't available.
3. You can use a higher grade oil, weather permitting, or driving style permitting. From what my 3 different 2gr owners manuals state:
An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.
Neither "high" or "extreme" are defined, nor is "lifetime". Typical useless speak from the tech writers at Toyota that write manuals. Engineers don't pick your oil grade or maintenance interval. EPA and marketing do. You should ask Toyota who writes the owners manual. You'd be surprised at their skill set, or lack of!
4. Its not best to follow what the manufacturer recommends. Its best to use some common sense and adapt your oil grade/type/interval to YOUR driving styles and expectations of the vehicle's life. And, adjust to the known issues with the engine. Many here have already cried at their oil consumption, startup noise, or other issues. You reap what you sow because you can't think for yourself.

My 2GR's can take 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 0w20 in the manuals. The difference among the engine specs and bearings clearances... .NONE!
Logic would tend to suggest high speed means much higher than normal cruising speed for an extended length of time, so if 75mph on the interstate for hours on end is considered somewhat normal, then one would be talking quite a bit over that, 20 mph plus?
Extreme would be driving condition outside what say 95 % of drivers would do on a daily basis, pulling trailers everyday, constant stop start driving every day,severe road conditions, heavy snow covered, dust smothered etc etc. Lifetime would be what the particular component would last when subjected to a certain use by a particular driver, so if one's usage normally results in them getting 300K out of a vehicle's transmission using the recommended maintenance, then if the fluid is lifetime then they should get 300K out of that same transmission with no fluid change, or the same out of an engine if the interval changes from 5 k to 10K. So to me lifetime means the manufacturers confidence in the service life of the vehicle is at least the same now as it was before with different schedule and lubricants etc. When you buy a vehicle one must have confidence in the manufacturer and what they recommend otherwise why buy that brand?
 

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Logic dictates nothing

Extreme wasnt defined by Toyota. So, 95% is a made up number.

Lifetime isnt defined. I am wagering that marketing would consider the average 1st owner ownership time, loan time, lease time, or warranty duration.... as a lifetime. The question is how problematic will the beyond lifetime ownership be?
 

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When you buy a vehicle one must have confidence in the manufacturer and what they recommend otherwise why buy that brand?
Because the manufacturer has considerations that may be different than the purchaser of the vehicle.

1. The manufacturer is subject to government regulations concerning fuel economy, and in some jurisdictions (like the EU) they are subject to waste disposal limitations. That might mean using lower viscosity oil to get better gas mileage, and longer fluid change intervals to meet government regulations on waste disposal and the amount of energy usage to make the fluids.

2. The manufacturer wants to sell as many vehicles as possible, and does not want the public think that a Toyota costs more to maintain than other brands (which is why they instituted the 2 years of free oil changes when they required synthetic motor oil). Longer fluid change intervals are part of that.

3. The manufacturer warranty eventually runs out. Toyota likes to have a reputation as being reliable, but they don't want vehicles to last forever.

4. The consumer may have different priories than the manufacturer. The consumer may want the vehicle to last longer than the average person, especially among those who purchase new vehicles. Therefore, some consumers may be more interested in engine longevity than they are in obtaining maximum gas mileage. But some consumers may prefer better gas mileage, and also not everyone lives in the same climate. Therefore there is not necessarily one and only one set of maintenance schedules or oil viscosities that is right for everyone.
 

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Compare the modern vehicle with that a vehicle of a few decades ago, the modern vehicle gets at least the same service life with less overall maintenance, so customer lifetime expectation has been met or exceeded. Warranty period is just the most likely period where vehicle should be trouble free and it is economical to provide cover without increasing price of the vehicle or reducing profit. Different owners have different usage, driving behaviours and different lifetime expectations, manufacturer has to build vehicle to meet most customer expectations and keep price at customer expectation, customer always wants more for less money.
 
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