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Discussion Starter #1
Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.
Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer
and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The
Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist
Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon
Books), is due out in March.

Singer and Avery note that most of the earth¹s recent warming occurred
before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical
evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth¹s last million years.
The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court
documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice
cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.

Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth¹s temperatures following
variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and
finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book
cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth¹s
temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool
the earth. It notes that global climate models can¹t accurately register
cloud effects.

The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark¹s team mimicked the chemistry
of earth¹s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric
gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a
stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic
droplets‹cloud seeds‹started floating through the chamber.

³We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons
[generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks
for the cloud condensation nuclei,² says Svensmark.

The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in
the sun¹s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth¹s
temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth¹s atmosphere
from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small
droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet
clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more
active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the
planet warms.

Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural,
1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the
why and how.
--
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:34:48 -0600, dbu <[email protected]> wrote:

>Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
>activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.
>Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer
>and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The
>Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist
>Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon
>Books), is due out in March.
>
>Singer and Avery note that most of the earth¹s recent warming occurred
>before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical
>evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth¹s last million years.
>The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court
>documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice
>cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.
>
>Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth¹s temperatures following
>variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and
>finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book
>cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth¹s
>temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool
>the earth. It notes that global climate models can¹t accurately register
>cloud effects.
>
>The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark¹s team mimicked the chemistry
>of earth¹s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric
>gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a
>stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic
>droplets‹cloud seeds‹started floating through the chamber.
>
>³We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons
>[generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks
>for the cloud condensation nuclei,² says Svensmark.
>
>The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in
>the sun¹s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth¹s
>temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth¹s atmosphere
>from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small
>droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet
>clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more
>active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the
>planet warms.
>
>Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural,
>1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the
>why and how.


Say it ain't so....

You mean all this bull crap is just that?

The sun is causing all this?

--

Scott in Florida
 
M

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

Not exactly. According to the Dims, George Bush is causing the sun to
shine brighter by sending our troops to Iraq, and he must be
stopped...


On Jan 30, 1:16 pm, Scott in Florida <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:34:48 -0600, dbu <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
> >activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.
> >Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer
> >and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The
> >Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist
> >Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon
> >Books), is due out in March.

>
> >Singer and Avery note that most of the earth¹s recent warming occurred
> >before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical
> >evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth¹s last million years.
> >The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court
> >documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice
> >cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.

>
> >Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth¹s temperatures following
> >variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and
> >finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book
> >cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth¹s
> >temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool
> >the earth. It notes that global climate models can¹t accurately register
> >cloud effects.

>
> >The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark¹s team mimicked the chemistry
> >of earth¹s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric
> >gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a
> >stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic
> >droplets‹cloud seeds‹started floating through the chamber.

>
> >³We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons
> >[generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks
> >for the cloud condensation nuclei,² says Svensmark.

>
> >The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in
> >the sun¹s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth¹s
> >temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth¹s atmosphere
> >from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small
> >droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet
> >clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more
> >active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the
> >planet warms.

>
> >Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural,
> >1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the
> >why and how.Say it ain't so....

>
> You mean all this bull crap is just that?
>
> The sun is causing all this?
>
> --
>
>  Scott in Florida- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

On 30 Jan 2007 10:19:07 -0800, "Mark" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Not exactly. According to the Dims, George Bush is causing the sun to
>shine brighter by sending our troops to Iraq, and he must be
>stopped...
>


LOL....

I can't figure out if Liberals are crazier when they are in power or
trying to get it back....

--

Scott in Florida
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

"Scott in Florida" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 30 Jan 2007 10:19:07 -0800, "Mark" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Not exactly. According to the Dims, George Bush is causing the sun to
>>shine brighter by sending our troops to Iraq, and he must be
>>stopped...
>>

>
> LOL....
>
> I can't figure out if Liberals are crazier when they are in power or
> trying to get it back....
>
> --
>
> Scott in Florida


What a coincidence! I was thinking the same thing about repuglicans!
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:22:28 GMT, "Truckdude" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Scott in Florida" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On 30 Jan 2007 10:19:07 -0800, "Mark" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Not exactly. According to the Dims, George Bush is causing the sun to
>>>shine brighter by sending our troops to Iraq, and he must be
>>>stopped...
>>>

>>
>> LOL....
>>
>> I can't figure out if Liberals are crazier when they are in power or
>> trying to get it back....
>>
>> --
>>
>> Scott in Florida

>
>What a coincidence! I was thinking the same thing about repuglicans!
>


LOL....

If you are ever in Florida, I'd be happy to take you to lunch with a
friend of mine. We would have a ball....

--

Scott in Florida
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

On Jan 30, 9:34 am, dbu <[email protected]> wrote:
> Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
> activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.



Amazing how the flat earthers with glob onto junk science in a second
if it supports the view they're told to have.
 
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Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

On 30 Jan 2007 11:29:31 -0800, "ToMh" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Jan 30, 9:34 am, dbu <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
>> activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.

>
>
>Amazing how the flat earthers with glob onto junk science in a second
>if it supports the view they're told to have.


flat earthers = liberals

I agree!!!!!

--

Scott in Florida
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

"dbu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
> activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.
> Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer
> and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The
> Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist
> Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon
> Books), is due out in March.
>
> Singer and Avery note that most of the earth¹s recent warming occurred
> before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical
> evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth¹s last million years.
> The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court
> documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice
> cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.
>
> Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth¹s temperatures following
> variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and
> finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book
> cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth¹s
> temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool
> the earth. It notes that global climate models can¹t accurately register
> cloud effects.
>
> The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark¹s team mimicked the chemistry
> of earth¹s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric
> gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a
> stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic
> droplets >
> ³We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons
> [generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks
> for the cloud condensation nuclei,² says Svensmark.
>
> The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in
> the sun¹s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth¹s
> temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth¹s atmosphere
> from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small
> droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet
> clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more
> active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the
> planet warms.
>
> Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural,
> 1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the
> why and how.
> --
>


Weather patterns have shifted drastically during our lifetime. I believe
where it's getting warmer other places are getting colder. We have had a
hand in this manipulation.
We're smart but we're vulnerable. We're not called the Naked Ape for
nothing.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

In article <[email protected]>,
"mark_digital©" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "dbu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
> > activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.
> > Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer
> > and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The
> > Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist
> > Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon
> > Books), is due out in March.
> >
> > Singer and Avery note that most of the earth¹s recent warming occurred
> > before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical
> > evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth¹s last million years.
> > The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court
> > documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice
> > cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.
> >
> > Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth¹s temperatures following
> > variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and
> > finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book
> > cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth¹s
> > temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool
> > the earth. It notes that global climate models can¹t accurately register
> > cloud effects.
> >
> > The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark¹s team mimicked the chemistry
> > of earth¹s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric
> > gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a
> > stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic
> > droplets >
> > ³We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons
> > [generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks
> > for the cloud condensation nuclei,² says Svensmark.
> >
> > The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in
> > the sun¹s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth¹s
> > temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth¹s atmosphere
> > from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small
> > droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet
> > clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more
> > active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the
> > planet warms.
> >
> > Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural,
> > 1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the
> > why and how.
> > --
> >

>
> Weather patterns have shifted drastically during our lifetime. I believe
> where it's getting warmer other places are getting colder. We have had a
> hand in this manipulation.
> We're smart but we're vulnerable. We're not called the Naked Ape for
> nothing.


If you look at weather records in the mid 1930's it may cause you to
pause for a bit. The 30's were before my time. My lifetime and your's
is but a microsecond or less in the big picture. Sorry, I can't get on
this bandwagon.
--
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

dbu wrote:

> Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
> activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.
> Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer
> and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The
> Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist
> Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon
> Books), is due out in March.
>
> Singer and Avery note that most of the earth¹s recent warming occurred
> before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2.


> The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in
> the sun¹s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth¹s
> temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth¹s atmosphere
> from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small
> droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet
> clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more
> active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the
> planet warms.


1. The financial and political biases of scientists should always be
considered, and in the case of Dr. Singer, he has been a consultant to
Phillip Morris Tobacco Co. and the oil industry on politically
controversial scientific matters. OTOH Henrik Svensmark isn't
considered very political.

2. Every scientist studying global warming considers factors like
solar output, cosmic rays, clouds, and other and natural variations.

3. It's well known that almost all global warming is natural, roughly
90F of it. It's the other 1-5F that can't be accounted for by natural
sources.

You can't confirm the truth by merely picking only sources that agree
with your prejudices.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

"dbu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
> activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.


I'm not taking the time - at least not right now - to read the whole post,
nor to Google the authors.

*But*, the operative word in the above statement may well be "primarily". I
haven't seen people claiming that all present global warming is due to human
activity, but rather that it is exacerbating the natural warming.

Cathy



> Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer
> and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The
> Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist
> Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon
> Books), is due out in March.
>
> Singer and Avery note that most of the earth¹s recent warming occurred
> before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical
> evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth¹s last million years.
> The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court
> documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice
> cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.
>
> Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth¹s temperatures following
> variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and
> finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book
> cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth¹s
> temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool
> the earth. It notes that global climate models can¹t accurately register
> cloud effects.
>
> The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark¹s team mimicked the chemistry
> of earth¹s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric
> gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a
> stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic
> droplets >
> ³We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons
> [generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks
> for the cloud condensation nuclei,² says Svensmark.
>
> The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in
> the sun¹s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth¹s
> temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth¹s atmosphere
> from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small
> droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet
> clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more
> active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the
> planet warms.
>
> Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural,
> 1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the
> why and how.
> --
>
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

In article <[email protected]>,
"Cathy F." <[email protected]> wrote:

> "dbu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
> > activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.

>
> I'm not taking the time - at least not right now - to read the whole post,
> nor to Google the authors.
>
> *But*, the operative word in the above statement may well be "primarily". I
> haven't seen people claiming that all present global warming is due to human
> activity, but rather that it is exacerbating the natural warming.
>
> Cathy


ALL I will agree to is that it is under study and that more study AND
more data has to come forth. It may take more years and more data. It
may never become clear before the sun becomes a red giant. Cheers.



>
>
>
> > Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, by physicist Fred Singer
> > and economist Dennis Avery was released just before Christmas. The
> > Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, by Danish physicist
> > Henrik Svensmark and former BBC science writer Nigel Calder (Icon
> > Books), is due out in March.
> >
> > Singer and Avery note that most of the earth¹s recent warming occurred
> > before 1940, and thus before much human-emitted CO2. Moreover, physical
> > evidence shows 600 moderate warmings in the earth¹s last million years.
> > The evidence ranges from ancient Nile flood records, Chinese court
> > documents and Roman wine grapes to modern spectral analysis of polar ice
> > cores, deep seabed sediments, and layered cave stalagmites.
> >
> > Unstoppable Global Warming shows the earth¹s temperatures following
> > variations in solar intensity through centuries of sunspot records, and
> > finds cycles of sun-linked isotopes in ice and tree rings. The book
> > cites the work of Svensmark, who says cosmic rays vary the earth¹s
> > temperatures by creating more or fewer of the low, wet clouds that cool
> > the earth. It notes that global climate models can¹t accurately register
> > cloud effects.
> >
> > The Chilling Stars relates how Svensmark¹s team mimicked the chemistry
> > of earth¹s atmosphere, by putting realistic mixtures of atmospheric
> > gases into a large reaction chamber, with ultraviolet light as a
> > stand-in for the sun. When they turned on the UV, microscopic
> > droplets >
> > ³We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons
> > [generated by cosmic rays] do their work of creating the building blocks
> > for the cloud condensation nuclei,² says Svensmark.
> >
> > The Chilling Stars documents how cosmic rays amplify small changes in
> > the sun¹s irradiance fourfold, creating 1-2 degree C cycles in earth¹s
> > temperatures: Cosmic rays continually slam into the earth¹s atmosphere
> > from outer space, creating ion clusters that become seeds for small
> > droplets of water and sulfuric acid. The droplets then form the low, wet
> > clouds that reflect solar energy back into space. When the sun is more
> > active, it shields the earth from some of the rays, clouds wane, and the
> > planet warms.
> >
> > Unstoppable Global Warming documents the reality of a moderate, natural,
> > 1500-year climate cycle on the earth. The Chilling Stars explains the
> > why and how.
> > --
> >

--
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

dbu wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,


> Of course, I understand the "natural sources" but what about the X-rays
> and the eleven year sun spot cycle?


They consider the sunspot cycle. I don't know if they also consider x-
rays and cosmic rays, but I'd be very surprised if they didn't because
they try to account for as many factors as possible, and it's not
reasonable to assume that they'd ignore them.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

"dbu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

>>
>> Weather patterns have shifted drastically during our lifetime. I believe
>> where it's getting warmer other places are getting colder. We have had a
>> hand in this manipulation.
>> We're smart but we're vulnerable. We're not called the Naked Ape for
>> nothing.

>
> If you look at weather records in the mid 1930's it may cause you to
> pause for a bit. The 30's were before my time. My lifetime and your's
> is but a microsecond or less in the big picture. Sorry, I can't get on
> this bandwagon.
> --
>

There are major forces at work we have no control over nor do we contribute.
An example of a major force would be the world's ocean waves that are
contributing to the slowdown of the Earth's rotation. Within the past few
years at least 3 seconds have been added to our timekeeping. Is it
something to worry about? I can't answer that. But according to scientist
(and I have not read any critical comments to the contrary), Earth's days
lasted one fourth what they are now and the moon was only 16,000 miles away.
And they say there was life on our planet at the time. There also was only
one large land mass.
I say we're vulnerable because we as a society cannot simply move to a safer
spot anymore like our ancestors could. Think about how fast Cape Cod is
eroding. If the Earth could talk do you think she cares whether or not a
bunch of parasite human beings lose their precious land and have no place to
go?
Sorry. I'm getting off track.

mark_
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

In article <[email protected]>,
"mark_digital©" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "dbu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> >>
> >> Weather patterns have shifted drastically during our lifetime. I believe
> >> where it's getting warmer other places are getting colder. We have had a
> >> hand in this manipulation.
> >> We're smart but we're vulnerable. We're not called the Naked Ape for
> >> nothing.

> >
> > If you look at weather records in the mid 1930's it may cause you to
> > pause for a bit. The 30's were before my time. My lifetime and your's
> > is but a microsecond or less in the big picture. Sorry, I can't get on
> > this bandwagon.
> > --
> >

> There are major forces at work we have no control over nor do we contribute.
> An example of a major force would be the world's ocean waves that are
> contributing to the slowdown of the Earth's rotation. Within the past few
> years at least 3 seconds have been added to our timekeeping. Is it
> something to worry about? I can't answer that. But according to scientist
> (and I have not read any critical comments to the contrary), Earth's days
> lasted one fourth what they are now and the moon was only 16,000 miles away.
> And they say there was life on our planet at the time. There also was only
> one large land mass.
> I say we're vulnerable because we as a society cannot simply move to a safer
> spot anymore like our ancestors could. Think about how fast Cape Cod is
> eroding. If the Earth could talk do you think she cares whether or not a
> bunch of parasite human beings lose their precious land and have no place to
> go?
> Sorry. I'm getting off track.
>
> mark_


Don't get a headache over it. We're all doomed anyway. The sun will
eventually grow in size and envelope it's entire solar system. I think
it's all because of the natural pulsations of the sun. Wait a few dozen
years, maybe a hundred and everything will be back to normal. Your
great great grandkids will be talking about weather stories told to them
how warm (or cold) it was back at the turn of the century.
--
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

"dbu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "mark_digital©" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "dbu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>> >>
>> >> Weather patterns have shifted drastically during our lifetime. I
>> >> believe
>> >> where it's getting warmer other places are getting colder. We have had
>> >> a
>> >> hand in this manipulation.
>> >> We're smart but we're vulnerable. We're not called the Naked Ape for
>> >> nothing.
>> >
>> > If you look at weather records in the mid 1930's it may cause you to
>> > pause for a bit. The 30's were before my time. My lifetime and
>> > your's
>> > is but a microsecond or less in the big picture. Sorry, I can't get on
>> > this bandwagon.
>> > --
>> >

>> There are major forces at work we have no control over nor do we
>> contribute.
>> An example of a major force would be the world's ocean waves that are
>> contributing to the slowdown of the Earth's rotation. Within the past few
>> years at least 3 seconds have been added to our timekeeping. Is it
>> something to worry about? I can't answer that. But according to scientist
>> (and I have not read any critical comments to the contrary), Earth's days
>> lasted one fourth what they are now and the moon was only 16,000 miles
>> away.
>> And they say there was life on our planet at the time. There also was
>> only
>> one large land mass.
>> I say we're vulnerable because we as a society cannot simply move to a
>> safer
>> spot anymore like our ancestors could. Think about how fast Cape Cod is
>> eroding. If the Earth could talk do you think she cares whether or not a
>> bunch of parasite human beings lose their precious land and have no place
>> to
>> go?
>> Sorry. I'm getting off track.
>>
>> mark_

>
> Don't get a headache over it. We're all doomed anyway. The sun will
> eventually grow in size and envelope it's entire solar system. I think
> it's all because of the natural pulsations of the sun. Wait a few dozen
> years, maybe a hundred and everything will be back to normal. Your
> great great grandkids will be talking about weather stories told to them
> how warm (or cold) it was back at the turn of the century.
> --
>


We're kinda engulfing ourselves in philosophy, fact and fiction. For over 4
billion years our star's output has remained fairly constant and it appears
will remain doing so for another 4 billion years. I believe man's appearance
on this planet and our longevity on this planet is due to ideal conditions
locally and from outer space. In an estimated 50,000 years our moon will
escape Earth's gravitational pull. Considering we do a good job at getting
on each others nerves now, how will we be when the moon is no longer here?
Seriously though, we are either going to be the last of the intelligent life
form on this planet or something more intelligent will take our place. If
history is our guide (no major mammals until most of the prehistoric animals
died), there won't be any co-existence. But if in fact our moon has played
an important part in creating,controlling, and sustaining life, I have to
assume that without it Earth will become forever barren.
Presently, my opinion is we are in a overall cooling period with a
mini-warm-up.
Back when the Grand Canyon was nothing but a shallow river can you imagine
what was said about it carving out the region? Today we enjoy it. Back then
they probably cried the world was coming to an end ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "mark_digital©" writes:

> [...] In an estimated 50,000 years our moon will escape
> Earth's gravitational pull. Considering we do a good job at
> getting on each others nerves now, how will we be when the moon
> is no longer here? [...]


I never heard the one about the Moon "escaping" completely, just
about its orbital radius gradually increasing. But I suppose it
could reach a distance where ownership was moot and it might get
captured by some other larger body. (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn? They
redirect everything in our Solar System to a measurable degree).
Mind, the Moon's history is v. complicated, involving collisions
with the Earth (1) and minor junk (lots) that created the deeply
buried "masscons" which artificial Moon satellites discovered.

What the cosmologists _are_ clear on, though, is that our Moon's
responsible for stabilising the Earth's inclination. Currently,
it's around 23.5deg. The axis orientation wobbles over about 26
thousand years (meaning the astrological charts are badly squiff
due to the Ecliptic having shifted since the charts were devised
a couple of thousand years ago). But the inclination's size too
changes and the Moon helps to control that. Without it, in time
the Earth could tip over completely. This would be very slow --
no waking up suddenly to find the Sun over the north pole -- but
it'd make a muddle of our lives. Look at Uranus, whose axis is
tipped at 98deg: the north pole actually points "down", relative
to Earth's; each day lasts a year while it orbits the Sun, first
with one pole almost pointing at the Sun then away and meanwhile
the planet revolves around its axis -- in its sky the Sun does a
yearly spiral from pole to pole and back, with half-year winters
and summers. If that happened here, wow, Fun For Dick And Jane.

But we'll have f*cked ourselves over thoroughly long before that
becomes a problem if today's politics and religion are a guide.
--
Andrew Stephenson
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Re: OT: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

"ToMh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Jan 30, 9:34 am, dbu <[email protected]> wrote:
> Two powerful new books say today¹s global warming is due not to human
> activity but primarily to a long, moderate solar-linked cycle.



Amazing how the flat earthers with glob onto junk science in a second
if it supports the view they're told to have.

You are just projecting YOUR intellectual weakness onto others. Global
warming IS junk science. Period. No further debate needed.
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Two powerful new books confirm warming is natural not caused by human activity

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "mark_digital©" writes:
>
> > [...] In an estimated 50,000 years our moon will escape
> > Earth's gravitational pull. Considering we do a good job at
> > getting on each others nerves now, how will we be when the moon
> > is no longer here? [...]

>
> I never heard the one about the Moon "escaping" completely, just
> about its orbital radius gradually increasing. But I suppose it
> could reach a distance where ownership was moot and it might get
> captured by some other larger body. (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn? They
> redirect everything in our Solar System to a measurable degree).
> Mind, the Moon's history is v. complicated, involving collisions
> with the Earth (1) and minor junk (lots) that created the deeply
> buried "masscons" which artificial Moon satellites discovered.
>
> What the cosmologists _are_ clear on, though, is that our Moon's
> responsible for stabilising the Earth's inclination. Currently,
> it's around 23.5deg. The axis orientation wobbles over about 26
> thousand years (meaning the astrological charts are badly squiff
> due to the Ecliptic having shifted since the charts were devised
> a couple of thousand years ago). But the inclination's size too
> changes and the Moon helps to control that. Without it, in time
> the Earth could tip over completely. This would be very slow --
> no waking up suddenly to find the Sun over the north pole -- but
> it'd make a muddle of our lives. Look at Uranus, whose axis is
> tipped at 98deg: the north pole actually points "down", relative
> to Earth's; each day lasts a year while it orbits the Sun, first
> with one pole almost pointing at the Sun then away and meanwhile
> the planet revolves around its axis -- in its sky the Sun does a
> yearly spiral from pole to pole and back, with half-year winters
> and summers. If that happened here, wow, Fun For Dick And Jane.
>
> But we'll have f*cked ourselves over thoroughly long before that
> becomes a problem if today's politics and religion are a guide.


If the earth tips over I will spill my coffee.

Interesting stuff Andrew, thanks.
--
 
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