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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have recently test driven the RAV4, CRV, Escape, Outback, and Forester. And that is the order, starting with the best, in which I thought I would rank them prior to actually sitting in them, taking each for a (short) drive, and reviewing options. Surprising to us, though, is how well we liked the Subarus. It is coming down to the RAV4, Outback, or Forester. I'm partial to Toyotas but the car will be my wife's daily driver and she is the one who will ultimately make the decision. I think either of those 3 cars would be great so she can't really go wrong IMO.

For those RAV4 owners who also looked at the Outback and/or Forester, what were your primary reasons for choosing the RAV4?
 

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A couple of things to consider:

1 - How important is it for your wife to have the topview and 360 degree camera that the Rav4 offers ? If you park in tight places in a garage, parking lot, or parallel park in the street, this camera is invaluable. I don't think Subaru offers this at all, and most cars don't offer this in the low $30k price range. The only ones I can think of are the Rogue and Versa.

2 - The non-hybrid version of the Rav4 is non-CVT. That may not make a difference to most people but to some that have CVT, it can take awhile to get use to.

3 - The Rav4 has 2yr no charge maintenance included. Some people do their own and it doesn't make a difference to them.

There are definitely pro's / cons to owning a Rav4, which I have, but overall I am pleased with all the technology features on it, especially the birdseye view.
 

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2018 Highlander
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
A couple of things to consider:

1 - How important is it for your wife to have the topview and 360 degree camera that the Rav4 offers ? If you park in tight places in a garage, parking lot, or parallel park in the street, this camera is invaluable. I don't think Subaru offers this at all, and most cars don't offer this in the low $30k price range. The only ones I can think of are the Rogue and Versa.

2 - The non-hybrid version of the Rav4 is non-CVT. That may not make a difference to most people but to some that have CVT, it can take awhile to get use to.

3 - The Rav4 has 2yr no charge maintenance included. Some people do their own and it doesn't make a difference to them.

There are definitely pro's / cons to owning a Rav4, which I have, but overall I am pleased with all the technology features on it, especially the birdseye view.
The features that are important for her can be obtained in all the cars we have it narrowed down to. The birds-eye view is nice but not something that she has to have. But you do raise a good point about the 2-yr no-charge maintenance. That is a definitely a bonus for the RAV4. I had asked the Subaru sales person if they had anything similar and he said that Toyota just factored that into the price. That may be true, but when it comes down to deciding between which vehicle to choose, something like that can help tip the scale.
 

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Another consideration for me is the extended warranty. As I approach 36k miles I plan to buy the Toyota OEM 8yr/125k one for just under $1400. I have the limited model with the ATP / TSS and with the higher-end electronics already on it plus the expected reliability, I plan to keep it for 10 years.
 

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I had it narrowed down to Outback, Forester, RAV4, and Highlander. I couldn't get the Highlander in 4 cyl, and I thought the Forester was a bit too small for my needs. I test drove the Outback and decided that was the car for me. Then I was warned by three different people in completely unrelated incidents that Subarus are notorious for oil consumption and minor repairs being needed. Although they are easy to work on, they need work quite often.

I was already driving a 2006 RAV4 with 218,000 miles on it and only had 3 repairs needed in a decade; replaced water pump in 2010; replaced speed sensor in 2014; just before I traded it, it appeared that I needed another speed sensor replaced.

I traded it in and picked up my 2016 RAV4 SE last week and I love it.
 

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Then I was warned by three different people in completely unrelated incidents that Subarus are notorious for oil consumption and minor repairs being needed. Although they are easy to work on, they need work quite often.
The oil consumption issue was rectified in 2016 with a revamp of the engine. The Rav 4 is the quietest of the bunch and has higher reliability ratings.
 

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Honestly, all three are pretty good choices. Toyota is still probably more reliable, especially for long run. Subaru maintenance costs tend to creep up as they get older. While Subaru's long term reliability is pretty good, you will find more instances of wheel bearing failures, oil leaks from valve covers, cooling system problems, etc. than most Toyotas. Subaru has addressed some of the most serious problems (head gasket failures with older models and oil consumption of the latest generation). Toyota is designed to last loner, with more substantial parts and over better quality of materials. You can get a good idea by looking underneath a 3 years old RAV4 and a Subaru in any location where salt is used in the winter. The difference will be obvious - Toyota's exhaust will be pretty "shiny", with little signs of corrosion. Subaru's exhaust will be mostly rusted because they use a lower quality steel, and it will probably need a full replacement 6-7 years after initial purchase. Another example is to ask a local suspension alignment store about how many Toyotas and Subarus they see that require frequent alignment. Most Toyotas will handle typical potholes and occasional encounters with curbs pretty well, and rarely need alignment unless subject to very harsh conditions or until suspension components are worn out. Subarus are much more prone to suffer from alignment problem even under pretty normal driving conditions. These differences also explain why Subarus are lighter - an Outback which is significantly bigger than a RAV has essentially the same curb weight. A Forester, almost identical in size to a RAV, is much lighter. Toyota is more conservative in their design, and sizes critical component such as suspension, bearings, etc. for a longer lifespan.

The biggest advantage of Subaru is pricing. They cost significantly less than a Toyota (for comparably equipped model). You get a nicer, more luxurious vehicle with the Outback for basically the same price as RAV4. Or you can get a more spartan vehicle for way less money with the Forester. But you get what you pay for, as mentioned above.

If you intend to keep the car for 5-6 years / 100k miles or less, than Toyota's longevity advantage is probably not worthy the extra money. If on the other hand, you want to keep you maintenance costs low beyond 100k miles, than Toyota is a better choice. The additional maintenance / repair cost as the Subaru gets older will easily offset the initial price difference.
 

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Katekebo's analysis is spot on. Good explanation and accurate information.


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What's the trade in/resale value between the two?


Good place to get that info is at kellybluebook.com



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What's the trade in/resale value between the two? ?
Both Toyota and Subaru have good resale value. In regions where Subaru is popular (North-East and North-West), Subaru will probably have a better resale value. In other regions, RAV4 may by slightly better.

One difference I forgot to mention is dealer / repair shop availability. Subarus are very popular in some regions, but very scarce in other. This means that finding a dealer / repair shop maybe a challenge. Some people have to drive their Subarus for 50 or more miles to get to the nearest dealer or a mechanic familiar with the brand. And then they are stuck with that dealer as the only nearby option.

With Toyota, it's always easy to find several dealers within reasonable distance. There are good and bad dealers. If you are not satisfied with the service from one of them, you can easily find somebody else.

In my opinion, having more dealer / repair shop choices is an important factor.
 
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