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Discussion Starter #1
hi i am a newbe and am eager to perform surgery on my first 7m. i will most likely get a block from one of the local junkyards but before i jump i need some info/advice on increasing compression, maintainence, etc. on an 88 n/a mk3 auto tranny. how much do i need to make sure it is done right the first time, what will need to be done, and what parts will i need???
 

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Got Hardass?
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First off,
While I am glad that you're eager to just dive into motor work, it doesn't really work that way. You (for the most part) can't just open up a motor (without a goal) and just tinker with it. You need to know what you're doing. So before you do any of this, what are YOU trying to achieve? You can raise compression a number of ways. High compression pistons, milling the head to minimum spec, etc. However, all if these options require a machines shop, and the knowledge of how to do it. You can't go mill your head in your dad's garage. As for maintenance, you can clean the carbon off of the pistons, clean the EGR system, make sure all the water channels are clean and unclogged... etc. But again, that's about it.

how much do i need to make sure it is done right the first time
Like I said, you need goals. And what are we talking about here? Money? Time? Effort? How much of what?

what will need to be done, and what parts will i need???
Goals....
 

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Discussion Starter #3
MK3: rebuild block with performance parts

What you Jeeves,
First of, my MK3 non-turbo is working just fine. I swapped it with a JDM a few years back and did all of the basic bolt ons, it has apprx. 80k on it now but still runs strong. As for what I am trying to achieve; I want/need to learn more about the 7MGE (plan on keeping it forever) and to rebuild a block using performance parts. I basically want more power and efficency yet still keeping it reliable enough to be my daily driver. I have an uncle who's going to help me out with all of the technical stuff but he's an old school domestic guy (Chevelle's, Camino's, LeManses, etc...) so he doesn't know about the 7MGE specific's and either do I, that's why I'm here trying to get some info. before I start spending my $$$$. Since this is going to be a project, I have all of the time/effort in the world or until my current engine gives. As for money, do you think $2K will be enough for a thorough job??? The following is a rough list of all the things that I will need/need done, if I left anything out please let me know.

-bigger pistons
-piston rings
-resurface head
-bore block
-grind valves
-resurface/grind crankshaft
-resurface/grind camshafts
-hi performance rod bearings
-main bearings
-MHG (what size???)
-when they same everything needs to be balanced, what parts exactly???

Another thing, I have an automatic tranny that was rebuilt apprx. two years ago. Do you think that it will be able to withstand the power??? Where can I get the performance parts (pistons, piston rings, etc...) and what are the brands??? And what other upgrades will I have to do to make sure that everything is balanced and runs efficiently (fuel upgrades, reprogram ecu, bigger radiator, etc...) and are these really necessary???

thanks ---j---
 

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$2000 for a performance motor is cutting it a little close. thats $2000 for just the motor right. if you want big hourse power from a n/a its all about the cams and head. Your old school uncle will tell you the same. Cams most likly will have 2 be custom crinds. You will have 2 send them a good set of cams. The cheapest stockers i found was $300 for both new. then you need to send them out. the cheapist i found 2 have the custom crinding was $320, Okay thats $630 there. You need a head. Probly a new one old heads are proplly worped. I found a head with cams, valves etc for $530 but the cams would still have to be sent out. If you are puting very big cams you should have the head ported to meat the needs of the cams. I do not know how mutch that is to do. Even if you used stock 7m lowerend parts they should hold up because they are known to be bullet proof. you will need more fuel so big injectors, fuel pump. ecu upgrade and all kinds of other stuff. If you are willing to do this i say just do a turbo moter and stop F ING around
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You got it all wrong, all I want to do is to rebuild the bottom end, similar to the stroker kits that Flatlander.com sales. I don't need a whole motor, just the block, I might be able to get one at the junkyard for $200.00+. I went to a machine shop and was told that they could do all for the machining/adjusting for apprx. $825.00 (wash, bore-hone, polish crankshaft, resurface head, valve grind & adjustment, and balance, if I left anything out please let me know). I was told that cams wouldn't do any good unless I was running a big turbo and that I should find aftermarket performance cams not grinds. I will need pistons/rings, rod/main bearings, complete head gasket set, MHG, timing belt, ARP head bolts, and maybe a new oil pump (if I left anything else out let me know). I am not sure how much the kit will cost me, let's just say $2K, then whatever upgrades another $1K (not really clear on what upgrades I will need if any are really needed). I guess I will leave the head stock and just port and polish whatever I can. Does anybody have any ideal how much HP/TQ this will give me along with all of the other bolt on's (3" exhaust, test pipe, Flowmasters, air intake system with cold air mod, one piece aluminum driveshaft, bored out throttle body, and maybe a dual electric fan), will I be pushing 300 horsepower 300 torque, will my n/a automatic be able to handle the power without blowing it or the torque converter, will I be able to pass smog emissions in Cali provided that I put back on the stock exhaust manifold and cat converter??? Are the bottom ends on the 7MGE and 7MGTE the same and interchangeable, if they are and if I ever decide to boost I will have one hell of a foundation to work with??? Waiting til the day when smog is no longer required for the MK3's.
thanks ---j---
 

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I believe it will take more than that to make 300. Especially at the wheels. The N/A's are not notorious for making power. Cam's (you're correct) don't do jack. I've never seen building the bottom end, blueprinting, or port/polishes make much of a difference either.

7M-GTE and 7M-GE bottom ends are not interchangable. 7M-GTE's have oil squirters and a few other things that help lubricate and keep it cool under boost.

Interestingly enough, I can't recall the last time I heard of anyone touching a crank in a 7M. They're pretty bulletproof on the bottom end.

In the 7M-GTE's the bottom ends (with Forged pistons and such) they've been known to make in excess of 500hp w/o issues. I've never ever seen an N/A this high, so I couldn't really tell you.

As for 300hp, lermme look into it...

Quoting Others...
in order for an NA to make 300hp you'll need a full build, starting with a balanced/lightened crank, forged rods, high comp pistons, bored to a higher displacement wouldn't hurtYou'll also need performance cams and valve work. On top of that you'll need an intake and exhaust tuned by God.

NA's are wiggers...I'll leave it at that...
To get a N/a to produce more power is infinitely more difficult than a turbo car (obvious?).

The problem is, all you can do is improve efficiency. The Toyota engines are already very good from the factory, so you don't have much room for improvement (unlike many domestic engines of the years past).

You need to increase the RPM range where you produce power, to gain significantly more HP. This is very expensive, since all the components in the engine, intake, exhaust must be altered to deal with this extra stress.

Now with turbo cars, the game is so much easier it isn't even funny. Bolt on a turbo, and even a total amateur at this will be making good power, that N/a's can only dream about
You'll also not that on many Supra sites (at least those I checked) I couldn't find a single dyno sheet of an N/A over 300rwhp. Several claimed theirs or their friends would be over 300, but never proof. In short, I hope you've got a lot of cash.
 

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There's a couple of 300 na's out there, crank though. Ultra high compression, stroker motors. Need the head work to flow that much (it was designed with 3L in mind...not 3.1 or 3.2). Cams and ports are must haves.
 

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Stroker motors are good for about 50hp more
And anyone that knows motors knows all the power is in cams and head(s) Even a lawn mower can double in power by changing the cam. To make real power you need big cams and a ported head. Turbos do not benifit as much as an N/a

I hear on this fourm all the time that cams do nothing this is :bullshitz
 

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Cams do little with the stock porting and valves.
If you use oversize or 2JZ valves, and have the head well ported and flowbenched you can and will see substantial increases.
I think HKS cams for the 7M are impossible to find for less than $1200 a pair IF you can find them for a reason. At this point, I'm certain the "cams make no difference" BS dates back to before anything existed beyond the HKS Stage chart.
I used to believe that cams made no difference, but by the math its almost impossible that you'd not see increased airflow from bigger cams, especially if you ported your head properly and used oversized valves. Either way, get new cams, don't get regrinds.
http://www.tedcomponents.com/7mgte.htm not the best price, but a lot of option and they are on this continent :)


The GE and GTE blocks are interchangeable, but a stock GTE block will have approx 8.45-1 compression, so going to NA pistons or forged units would be highly advisable or you'd see even less power. Other than the oil squirters mentioned by Jeeves and the oil filter junction, there's no other real differences in the shortblocks, so building your GE would be just fine for your goals.

There's a couple of cats going for bigger power with a GE on SF, but honestly I think its just too expensive to be worth it in the end. In your shoes and with your goals, I'd get some 9.3 or 9.4-1 compression forged pistons, ARP studs and a Metal headgasket, and pull a few degrees of timing and run some wet N2O. You'll get some good performance from N2O and you'll spend a lot less money to do N2O right than you will on a Flatlander kit for far less power. Flatlander has also been having some horrendous leadtimes on their work, so be advised. The stock NA's A340E auto trans will pop around 300-350hp, so a simple 75 shot should be fine as long as you don't make too much torque ;)

Nobody on SF or SM has posted conclusive dyno sheets or anything else to indicate exactly how much the Flatlander stroker kit is worth powerwise. I'll be skeptical until I do.
 
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