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One and Only
2021 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off Road Premium
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I've been hearing rumors about this oil for a while now. They clam it increases horsepower and torque in your engine. It wasn't until yesterday I was watching Horse Power TV, and Chuck I think it was did a test with a Chevy Impala SS using the dynamo. The first test read at 304 horsepower with the original oil. The second test now with Royal purple in the Engine and Trans gave the car a boost of 312 horsepower. Has any use this oil yet.

http://www.royalpurple.com
 

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Trailer Trash Engineer
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The idea with a good full synthetic is that it lowers parasitic losses in the engine. Syn can give the same level of protection with a thinner base stock than mineral oil. Thinner oil is easier to pump and lowers the oil pump load losses as well as allows parts to move with less oil drag. Syn also has a "slipperier" molecular structure than mineral and reduces frictional losses that way.
How much HP you can free up depends on a number of factors, but syn is used almost exclusively in most all forms of racing, so you can draw your own conclusions.
 

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Yes, royal purple is good stuff, up their with Amsoil and Redline (personally I'd go w/ Redline)

But Mobil 1 is much cheaper full syn and Im not rich so I use that.
 

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HAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!

Silly rabbit, trix are for kids! Oops!

You can't gain hp from oil. However, you can limit friction and heat loss to make your engine more efficent.
 
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I use synthetic because I have a complex Japanese sewing machine engine :)lol:), and it only costs me another $12 an oil change. I put just over 7k on my car last year, so I am not exactly buring thru oil.
 

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Triple A Whore
Highlander & Civic
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I saw HP TV do that with a Camaro SS and they did gain something like 12 HP. But you're talking about an engine that already made ~330 HP so is 12 HP really that much? I dunno, just repeating what I saw.
 

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Guitars and Cars
2001 Corolla S
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Flashmn said:
theoretically maybe... in reality, naah.
It's funny how you say it doesn't work in reality when two people saw it proven on a dyno.
Kinda like how you say CAIs don't do anything even when I've seen 50 dyno graphs that say they do.:lol:
You crack me up:thumbup: :D
 

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Re: Synthetic Oil

Hi:

I have tried just about every Syntheic Motor Oil around. I would rank them:

1. Amsoil Synthetic-$5.65 Quart
2. SR-1 Syntheic oil by Torco Automotive-$4.75 PER LITER, DOES NOT COME IN QUARTS. ONE LITER IS ALITTLE MORE THAN A QUART

http://www.torcoracingoils.com/sports_imports/index.asp?intCurrentMarket=9

I came across SR-1 Synthetic Oil in a Advertisment in Super Street Magazine. I was very Impressed with it. I was so impressed, I purchased a Case of SR-1. It is currently in my camry right now

3. Royal Purple is very good-$5.50 Quart
4. Mobil One-$4.50 Quart

I have tried Redline, in my opinion, was not that good. I tried it in 2 of my cars, 1998 TRD Camry and a 1985 Trans Am 5.0L.

Redline ran good in my Camry, but over time, the engine became very noisey on accerlertion, gas mileage seemed to decrease.
Drained it after 1000 miles.

As far as oil weight, I use whatever the car manufactuer says. Toyota says 5W-30 weight for my Camry, so thats what I use

Try it for yourself

TRD_Rob
 

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King Dingaling
77 scottsdale 4X4
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I'm not going to tell you that you cant gain horsepower from the oil, but you wont get much (not enough to notice) but I'm sure it is better for your engine anyways. so run it if you like. personally I've always been a fan of quakerstate's synthetic blends. but everybody's got their particular brand and I'm not prejudice towards any, they all do pretty much the same thing (lube and cool your engine) so go for it.

hearing that kinda reminds me of what I call "box horsepower" you know: put these platinup tipped, gold plated, 5 pronged, super-d-duper sparkplugs in and gain 1million horsepower!

honestly the power you actually gain is nowhere near what it says on the box. (a lot less) if the box was right then I've owned a couple 500hp engines!

just my 2 cents, take it for what its worth
 

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The Regenerator
2018 Prius Two-Eco
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Personally, I'm very leery of the TV dyno tests. Amazingly, the product being sold always posts an fantasitc gain. Just too easy to manipulate. Those things that seem too good to be true. . .

I ran a fill of Royal Purple in my VVT-i V-6 Camry, and despite being pretty seat of the pants sensitive, could detect no gain in performance. Engine did seem louder and not quite as smooth.

The smoothest performer in the syn oil department that I've tried so far is the Amsoil 5w-30 (ASL variety; be careful, Ams makes several 5w-30 grade oils).

Right now, I'm trying German Castrol Syntec 0w-30. This is the strangely green colored stuff that's apparently a Group-IV - V mix, not the phonysyn hydrocracked American Syntec stuff (a Group-III base oil). Although my mileage is down a bit, this oil turns in some fantastic used oil analysis results (indicative of very low wear) in many different engines. We'll see how it goes.
 

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Nope! The thinner the oil the less drag it has under all conditions on the parts. That is why race teams loosen things up and often run oil that is an 8wt for qualifying but do not run the race that way!

Royal Purple is shear crazy and in about 1000 miles sometimes less it has sheared from the advertised viscosity grade to the next lower grade often. It is also on the thin side for the listed grade. So as an example most 5W30 motor oils by the time they have 3000 to 5000 miles on them are closer to a 5W20. You usually do not want an oil to shear quickly their are some exceptions but not many. It is normaly associated as a bad thing for an oil to shear quickly.

If I put Mobil 1 15W50 into an engine and put it on a dyno and run it and used that as a base line then put in Mobil-1 0W20 that engine would show a net gain of 5 to 20 HP depending on the design of the engine. The Mobil-1 0W20 did not increase the HP of the engine it just produced less hydrodynamic drag the engine remained the same in every other way.

You will not gain any appreciable HP on your daily driver buy putting Royal Purple in it! Royal Purple is a terrible oil for engines and their gear lube and MT fluids do not impress me either. I tried them all. I remember when Terry Dyson got excited by Royal Purple and Synerlec at first too. Then we all say how it falls on it's face in a lot of daily drivers and shears to nothing rather quickly! try Mobil-1 0W40 it is 1/2 the price of anything Royal Purple makes and a better oil in just about every gasoline engine you might put it in! I tried their 75W140 Gear Lube, their Synchrmesh and their 5W30 and 15W40 oils cost too much and does not offer anything that other products at same price or less do not do better!

The only way you get me to use Royal Purple in anything I own again is if they were paying me!
 

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Oh boy.
As others pointed, lower viscosity (particularly HTHS: High Temperature-High Shear) the less parasitic loses: less resistance and better MPG.
BUT, it is trade off and in vehicle that should do 10k OCI one should be very careful with low HTHS. HTHS is actually what matters, not grade per se. HTHS is resistance to temporary or permanent loss of viscosity at 150c.
Also, be careful with oil like Redline that have huge amounts of Ester base stock. They oxidized super fast. They are basically semi racing oils and those oils are BIG NO in vehicles that do long OCI.


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An engine is an air/fuel pump that we ignite with specific timing for as many power pulses as the design will allow. The engines power output is a function of the mechanical design and the fuel and ignition design. The End! The dyno is not the true expression of the engines power output and must be adjusted for a number of factors. Even when you decide to begin to load down the engine has a bearing on what the HP potential of the engine will demonstrate. That is why the person running the dyno is just as important as all the other factors that go into it.

The engines ability to generate torque and thus HP is not a function of the oil in the sump. The oil in the sump can affect the reading you get on the dyno but does not affect how the engine is actually functioning. If I take a world class sprinter and have him run into a strong wind and his sprint speed is reduced according to the time it took to travel the distance that does not mean his power production decreased. Put another way if I have that sprinter run with a parachute attached to him or her and his time over a known distance is increased I can not then say his horse power and torque was decreased instead I can only say that drag increased on the sprinter.

The engine in any given configuration will and can only make the exact same power. How much of it get's translated to the crank or to the rear wheels is a different matter all together. You can not say the engine "makes more power" just because it demonstrated more power on an artificial empirical measuring device that has a lot of variables in it. In any true measure of "power output" no matter if it is rf amplification or a steam engine input power vs output power has to be accounted for. You can not put in the exact same amount of energy and magickly get more out with out changing how the energy transformation and thermal losses are being generated.

This is like elementary small gas engine theory, electronics, steam engine theory etc......

Sadly marketing does not obey any real laws especialy when it comes to pandering to the public.

What you can say is that any oil thinner than what was in the engine before can demonstrate more torque and HP due to less hydrodynamic drag! That is not the same remotely as generating more torque and horsepower. The power has remained the same just less is being used to pump the oil around and through the parts now so that power which was always in that engine that is not being used to over come the oils drag not just pumping losses is now available to go to the crank but nothing new has been created or gained that power was always in the engine and was always doing some for of work. The biggest losses are thermal losses. This is not semantics either this is fundamental it is just like knowing the difference between clearances and tolerance not remotely the same. If you do not understand the most basic fundamental of a given discussion than marketers will play on that and sell you all kinds of impossible things like the "Vornado" and "Fuel Line Magnets" and wimpy 12 volt hair dryer to go in the intake duct to "turbo charge" the car etc.....

Red Line makes a 5W Drag Racing Oil put that in an engine on a dyno compared to 20W50 or 10W40 or SAE 30 and watch the numbers reflect that. Often on shows with dyno's like Power Nation but not limited to it they will toss Amsoil 10W40 or some other heavy thick high ZDDP oil in for break in dyno pulls. If Royal Purple is a sponsor they will then toss in a thinner Royal Purple oil and do the final pull and demonstrate a 5 to 20 HP "Gain" I use that word not because it is the correct word but because that is the wording they use!

This will hold true all the way up to the point were the oil is too thin to keep the parts separated and friction begins to build and wear begins to happen and parts suddenly seize up! Until then it is free power. The higher the friction in the engine and greater the hydrodynamic drag due to crank mains and rod bearings the greater the improvement is. The more power pulses likewise the more you gain from this.

In a daily driver the little bit you gain means nothing to the owner since most of it will be at WOT after HP and TQ curves have crossed. On a race engine that is at it's limit every HP is the same as losing 7lbs. of weight. That is huge when some races are won by narrow margins.

For an OEM saddled with unrealistic emission/fuel economy regulations and taxes based on the results of that a gain of .0016 miles per-gallon by using thinner oil times the millions of vehicles they make is HUGE. AS long as the vehicles do not self destruct under warranty and have reasonable life expectancy it cost them nothing to use thinner oil and ATF but it saves them millions in taxes each and every year!

Guess how many people buy Royal Purple even though it is not a very good synthetic compared to many other far cheaper brands on the shelves due to fantastic marketing??? I bought it and tried it myself. I tried every product they make twice and got less results in spite of paying more. Bitog is littered with less than stellar results over and over and over again. Shearing out of grade quickly is the bane of Royal Purple. Shearing out of grade quickly is not a good thing for most oils to do their are some exceptions. It does reduce drag though and improve fuel economy by doing so!

Toyota designed their 0W20 to shear quickly. They wanted to use a 0W16 but that was not an option in the USA so they designed their products to shear more than they should to effectively turn it into a 0W16 in short order. Now it is not an issue as we now have 0W16. 0W12 and 0W8 are on the chart so we will be seeing them in my lifetime I am sure.

I am wondering how long they can keep bumping up Calcium, Boron, Moly, Antimony levels as they reduce viscosity before timing chains just start to wear out shortly out of warranty?

I think they have hit a limit on Calcium because of LSPI issues. Normally people think of Calcium as a detergent/dispersant but when you over base the oil with it you get an AW effect from it as well and temp tbn bump. The problem is those effects are not long lasting they fade fairly quickly in use compared to more traditional additives. The big problem is that all of the newer GDI turbo charged engines are having issues with LSPI (Low Speed Pre-Ignition) and it is not entirely understood. It is especially bad with start stop systems on turbo charged GDI engines. Lowering calcium seems to help so that means more magnesium.

Manufactures want a free lunch. They can not increase ZDDP due to emission system warranty life. Moly does more for the rings than it does for the timing chain. If they have to go to more expensive alloys it ruins the free lunch and if they have to do more complex heat treat or surface prep that cuts into profits too. A return to timing belt?

It will be interesting to see what new additive technology they come out with or higher percentage of hi end base stocks etc?? Get ready for $100 4 quart oil changes! LOL
 

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I think LSPI is understood very well. It is too much boost at very low rpms’s. Very effective turbo chargers achieving boost in a very short time before transmission downshifts. This is exacerbated by transmission programming that is chasing mpg. It is an issue in small engines, usually under 2ltr, though Asian and American manufacturers are still struggling with it in 2.0ltr engines. Low calcium is just bandaid. It doesn’t resolve issues although oils like MB229.52, BMW LL (all specifications), VW504.00/507.00 and VW511.00 have much more stringent LSPI test than API SP.
Timing chain is real issue. I know API SP has timing chain test, but than API is never particularly stringent so it is kind of whatever.
As for Royal Purple, I always say that oil blenders who refuse to send oils for approval (and they are cheap, at least European ones) are not sending it for a reason. That is where conversation stops for me.


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