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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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the metal body of the sensor is the ground .. > motor .. > .. * Motor & chassis primary ground points above (!) > * Neg. Batt. terminal above (!) > Batt. Negative (-) .
 

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Discussion Starter #62
So if I wanted to do a jumper ground like he was talking about, would I jump from the body of the sensor to a ground? Or do you think the ground issue is somewhere in the cluster? I cleaned up all the under hood grounds and the battery terminals. Haven't had a chance to go through the fuses or other bulbs yet. The OBD is still grounding out something and making the temp gauge read correctly. Definitely not running the temps that the gauge is showing right now. I can use the infrared and see that the temp is not changed at all from the middle to the upper parts of the gauge. So it is definitely a gauge problem and seems to be a grounding issue. Not a fun thing to try and figure out.

Was under the dash by the OBD port today and there are two different open wiring harnesses hanging there with nothing plugged into them and nothing appears to be unplugged around them. Not sure what they are for or how to figure that out. Thought maybe there was something missing there that is causing the issues.
 

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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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Sure, you can take a length of wire, and jumper from the gauge sensor body -> directly to battery Negative (-) terminal, see if the gauge improves.

You've done a lot of motor work, just want to reiterate what I stated above:
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I would also be using an OBDII scanner adapter / app. to real-time monitor & confirm coolant temp., as reported by the ECT sensor, while going through this diagnostic.
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At a minimum, check & confirm your temp. readings w/ the IR Thermometer when @ operating temp., to ensure nothing has "changed" on the coolant system side.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
My OBD doesn't give me real time, just a code reader. I have been checking multiple times with the IR to make sure it is staying the same. Was working on some other stuff in the interior today and let it idle for a couple hours in the driveway and would take a break every few minutes to check. The temp was always spot on what it should be (185 everywhere on the radiator with no hot spots, and about 195 on the thermostat housing). It didn't change even though the gauge was going up and down. Gauge never gets in the red, just gets up close to it. I am thinking it is more and more and electrical thing because I can start the car cold and it will get up to 80% within a minute or so and rises and falls with acceleration. Like it is a tach. It is a strange thing. But every single time I connect the OBD to it, it drops to just below half and is stable. I also hooked up the OBD when starting it cold, and watched it warm up to the just below half area and stay there as long as the OBD is connected. So weird.

I am thinking I am just gonna go ahead and get an OBD gauge that gives me lots of info, and lets me get an exact temp to monitor it. Even if I can't track down what's going on with this gauge at least then I will know while driving.
 

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Hey guys. First time on here. Thanks for all the info I have been able to read. Having a problem with my 99 Camry 2.2. Replaced the timing belt, water pump, radiator, thermostat, and the two temp sensors up top. Put Toyota coolant in, burped the system, but it is running too warm. I would say the temp is running between 70-85% right now on the gauge. Fans turn on. No codes in the system. It runs perfectly, just running hot. Heater and AC both work beautifully. Everything seems to be working correct....just hot. Have tried 2 different temp gauge sensors with the same outcome. I am at a loss and not sure where to go next. Have basically replaced the coolant system and it is not running at the temp it should. Any ideas on what to look at next? I was thinking maybe the timing has it running lean, but there are no codes and it sounds and idles like a top. Thanks for any suggestions or help.

Check the radiator fan rotation direction, breez from the fan should go to the engine and not the opposit (if you don't understand this then look for a competent technician to check it out for you)
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Sure, you can take a length of wire, and jumper from the gauge sensor body -> directly to battery Negative (-) terminal, see if the gauge improves.

You've done a lot of motor work, just want to reiterate what I stated above:
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I would also be using an OBDII scanner adapter / app. to real-time monitor & confirm coolant temp., as reported by the ECT sensor, while going through this diagnostic.
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At a minimum, check & confirm your temp. readings w/ the IR Thermometer when @ operating temp., to ensure nothing has "changed" on the coolant system side.
Jumped the sensor....didn't change anything. So the ground fault must be in the actual cluster.
 

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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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Just to be clear, it may be a ground issue causing high resistance, a voltage drop on the positive (+) side causing the gauge to an erroneous reading (insufficient gauge voltage), or the gauge itself may be compromised.

Of course, there's the connectors <-> and wiring between the gauge cluster and sensor that need to be checked.

re: two wiring harnesses disconnected / nowhere to go - have no idea. And the '97 wiring is different enough from the '00 here that I dunno if checking under my dash would help you.

The Toyota TIS system allows access to the (paid) FSM info that the techs. use. If you have a computer that you can install a (PDF) print driver on, you can sign up for a 2 day subscription and print out everything about your vehicle to do the diagnostic, including [Diagnostic[ field checks and factory [Wiring] Diagram info.

 

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Discussion Starter #68
Thanks for the tip on the TIS. I will do it.

Had a weird thing happen tonight too. So I tested and cleaned the EGR valve the other day. Still had the code, so I installed a new VSV and modulator tonight. Tested the VSV before installing. Took forever to get it to start once I finished. Finally started and sounded and ran great. Took it out on a test drive and it was great....until I accelerated hard. The car stuttered, lurched a little, check engine flashed, and the rpm's were erratic. Let off the accelerator and it seemingly went back to normal. Drove great under normal driving, but every time I would hard accelerate it would do the same thing. Engine actually died once while doing it. Kept driving and trying it. It got less and less as time went on, but was still doing it (though not as hard aggressively as time went on). Also put it in park and tried just revving it. Sounded and did great till it got up around 4k rpm and the rpm would just drop and check engine light would flash on and then go away. My reader is a cheap one, so it is showing no codes because there are no active codes. The only thing I was thinking is maybe a MAP sensor. But honestly have no idea.

On a weird side note, it looks like the power steering sensor, was unplugged and just hanging there. Someone undid it at some point, but not sure when. Power steering is working fine, so I just left it alone. Figured maybe they undid it for a reason.
 

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Discussion Starter #69
On top of all of that ^^^ I get up this morning, go out to the car, it acts like the batter is dead, but if you continue to crank it finds power and starts. The AC light started blinking, but the AC is blowing cold and showing no problems other than the light blinking. Checked the ground on the compressor and the belt. Everything seems to be fine. There is something going on in the electrical system of this car for sure.
 

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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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Would suggest getting the Alternator and Battery (load) tested. ... If any doubt as to the condition of the Ignition Switch, perform voltage testing there also.

Edit:
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you also mentioned a "flashing check engine light" above - that indicates a engine Misfire rate, severe enough that the (ECM) is alerting the driver (you) to potential Catalytic Converter damage, due to unburned fuel entering the exhaust system. ...

There are a series of grounds coming from the engine harness (about mid-point back of motor / that route down between the Intake Manifold / fuel injector rail) -> to the bottom of the Intake Manifold / where the EGR VSV sits on the 2.2 here, and another ground strap from the motor over to the fender well on the passenger side in the engine compartment.

Go back and review: make sure -all- grounds removed during engine work have been properly reinstaled / cleaned / and tighened - I would, if here.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Would suggest getting the Alternator and Battery (load) tested. ... If any doubt as to the condition of the Ignition Switch, perform voltage testing there also.

Edit:
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you also mentioned a "flashing check engine light" above - that indicates a engine Misfire rate, severe enough that the (ECM) is alerting the driver (you) to potential Catalytic Converter damage, due to unburned fuel entering the exhaust system. ...

There are a series of grounds coming from the engine harness (about mid-point back of motor / that route down between the Intake Manifold / fuel injector rail) -> to the bottom of the Intake Manifold / where the EGR VSV sits on the 2.2 here, and another ground strap from the motor over to the fender well on the passenger side in the engine compartment.

Go back and review: make sure -all- grounds removed during engine work have been properly reinstaled / cleaned / and tighened - I would, if here.
I'll check those grounds. I have done the passenger fender one already, but haven't done those on the bottom of the intake manifold. I'll check that next.

The alternator was good, but the battery was shot. Replaced it and it is now starting great. Still a little sluggish like the air mix is off. Gonna pop on a new map sensor today. That could be leading to some of the misfires as well from what I research, so I am gonna check that next.
 

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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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Glad to read you got it running again.

Given the mistreated condition you received the Camry in, I'm not 'surprised' that issues continue to "pop up" as you go through the maintenance / rehab on this vehicle, have been there, done that here.

Best I can offer is to keep the faith, stay resolute, remember that each system you Q/A & rehab will get you closer to the (original root) cause of the resultant mess you have been dealing with / be confident you will get it solved and back to a daily driver.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Well the cutting out I solved today, and it is down to me being dumb. The metal hold down strap on the batter is missing its back post, so it is only bolted up front. When tight it holds the battery just fine and doesn't cause a real issue. But in doing the work it had gotten loosened and I forgot to tighten it up all the way. So every time I would hit a bump or hard accelerate and it would shift, that metal arm was arcing with the positive terminal. I live on 12 acres with a long dirt driveway so it was getting a little infuriating. Haha. But I got it all tightened up and strapped the back side down with a bungee till I can get the metal post to hold it down.

I completely agree, it is just gonna take time to work through all the issues to get it right. I feel like it is close right now. It does drive great and smooth for the most part. I am gonna grab a map sensor and the junkyard in the morning and see if that clears up the sluggishness that is still there after replacing the vsv. Had a question thought. The EGR was so clogged and so bad that I put it in a carb cleaner bath to clean it. Was that a bad idea? I thought it was an all metal valve, but was a little worried it may have a diaphragm in there that I could have screwed up? Just wondering if I should grab one of those from the junkyard too.
 

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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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I'm guessing there is (some form of a) rubber diaphram assembly inside the EGR valve - as it is modulated by vacuum. So yes - grab another EGR valve. They do go bad after getting crudded up. Cleaning is sometimes a "hit-or-miss".

Also grab the Coil Packs, and ignition wires if they look good. (Battery short / arcing)
And the MAP sensor. (Hesitation)
And the (electrical) Ignition Switch, if available / you have time to do so. (Temp. Gauge diagnostic)
And the engine compartment EVAP Purge VSV, w/ vacuum hose(s) to the Throttle Body. And the Charcoal Canister assembly. (EVAP DTC)

Hmm...

It may be easier to just hook a chain to the back bumper - and drag the car back home w/ you, LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
I'm guessing there is (some form of a) rubber diaphram assembly inside the EGR valve - as it is modulated by vacuum. So yes - grab another EGR valve. They do go bad after getting crudded up. Cleaning is sometimes a "hit-or-miss".

Also grab the Coil Packs, and ignition wires if they look good. (Battery short / arcing)
And the MAP sensor. (Hesitation)
And the (electrical) Ignition Switch, if available / you have time to do so. (Temp. Gauge diagnostic)
And the engine compartment EVAP Purge VSV, w/ vacuum hose(s) to the Throttle Body. And the Charcoal Canister assembly. (EVAP DTC)

Hmm...

It may be easier to just hook a chain to the back bumper - and drag the car back home w/ you, LOL.
Haha. I am about to go grab a new set of NKG wires and plugs in a minute. Gonna get new for that. Tomorrow I will grab the MAP. Was planning on grabbing the charcoal canister too. For the ignition switch are you meaning the key ignition cylinder inside the car? And I thought the EVAP VSV was attached to the charcoal canister in the back of the car.
 

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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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Haha. I am about to go grab a new set of NKG wires and plugs in a minute. Gonna get new for that. Tomorrow I will grab the MAP. Was planning on grabbing the charcoal canister too. For the ignition switch are you meaning the key ignition cylinder inside the car? And I thought the EVAP VSV was attached to the charcoal canister in the back of the car.
My bad, Purge VSV then. (The other one.) ..

No, just the (electrical) switch portion attached to the back of the lock cylinder. Like this:


IIRC, you should be able to use any '97-'01 Camry ignition switch (Gen 4 / 4.5) as a compatible test / replacement switch.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Well today was a great junkyard day. Got the ignition switch, both coils, EGR valve, MAP sensor, and the whole charcoal canister and VSV purge valve assembly for the EVAP system. $55 well spent. Now to do the much harder job of installing all of it on my car. Gonna start easy and work toward the harder stuff and see how it runs each step of the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #78 (Edited)
So I put in the EGR, MAP sensor, and the coils. The coil for #4 was pretty trashed (black inside, a little cracked). Started way better after that. Little bit of a shimmy when I am idling in gear, but super smooth when I idle in neutral or park. Figured I had a vacuum leak, but nothing showing.

I am still having the cut out when I hit a bump, but also started doing the same thing when shifting into reverse. It is a hard shift, but doesn't do it every time. Just sometimes. The shift into drive is always smooth. Was thinking maybe there is a problem with the injectors. When I go into gear it puts load on the engine and drops the rpms and the injectors are having an issue. I have probably washed a ton of carbon into that area with all the TB and EGR work. Not sure. I pulled the injectors a couple months ago and did a home cleaning on them with carb cleaner and leads on a battery so they would fire the cleaner through. But that was when I was trying to get it to start for the first time. So I have done a ton to it since then and unsure what is going on. Don't think it is the tranny at all. Shifts really smooth and never had an ounce of issues. First time it did that hard shift was after I had sprayed starter fluid everywhere looking for vacuum leaks. Did the shift a few times and it was slowly getting better, but still there. This thing is like pandoras box. Haha.

So should I pull the injectors and try and clean them again or do you think they are fine? I am thinking more and more it isn't a wiring fault because it never happened until the second I got the EGR system working again. That is right when it started happening.
 

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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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Glad to read you are making progress. Your determination & repairs to-date in getting to this point is impressive.

More will be required to go the 'final mile', now that you are nearing the original (root cause) of the issues you found. Hang in there.

re: Fuel Injector(s) cutting out when shifting into (R)everse / driving over rough road being due to a Fuel Delivery Issue (vs. electrical cut-off issue) ... It's "possible". Would not be my initial thought for issue cause though. But see below, re: Fuel Pump.
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Really getting into advanced diagnostic territory now - requiring use of (high resolution) diagnostic scope equipment, to view -> and confirm trigger signal / operation of both Coil Packs and Fuel Injectors firing.

Going into that level of detail may eventually be necessary: but at this point, there are still a number of items to be checked first.

First, you are the "tech on-scene".

So, if you think something needs to be addressed due to a cleaning / repair as part of the rehab process - Do It.

Get the area of the Fuel Injectors and connectors cleaned up and inspected. Carbon -is- a conductor, it will ground signal. Start with that first.

IMPORTANT: disconnect -any- aftermarket items added to factory wiring: e.g.: Stereo equipment, power outlets, alarm / remote starter, interior/aux. lighting, trailer wiring - -anything- that is not factory-stock wiring.

Next, because you are getting an engine 'cut-off' when the vehicle's wiring system is disturbed, if here, I would check the following connectors and wiring immediately after each connector:

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* Fuel Pump, Crankshaft Sensor, Camshaft Sensor, Coil Packs, Fuel Injectors, Ignition Switch, *Neutral Safety Switch (if auto) / Clutch engagement switch (if manual)..

Those connectors / sensors are directly related for Fuel Delivery / Timing / and Ignition firing.

Verify connectors, and check all exposed wiring from the connector -> up to the wiring harness loom. Any suspect wiring issues found need to be investigated.

You are checking for overall wiring condition, and any evidence of chafing, cuts, or breakage. We know the components for these connectors "work" at this point: one or more of them is loosing power and / or signal when the electrical path to said component is disturbed.

* The only "wild card" in the mix above, is the Fuel Pump. -If- the Fuel Pump has an (internal) short @ the motor, it will exhibit cut-off behavior, even if the connector is secure & wiring is good to the assembly. (Keep that in mind.) Fuel Pump test usually involves a weighted rubber or plastic faced mallet, and giving a few good 'taps' around the fuel pump assembly area ... to "simulate" normal road conditions / driving.

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After above, then check sensor and electrical connectors, e.g.: TPS, ECT, MAP, A/F and/or O2 sensors , Air Temp Sensor. Check connections to the Altenator, Starter, etc. Check everything.

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Once connectors and wiring are verified, it's time to back-trace to the Battery.

"All things electrical ... start at the Battery".

Battery Terminals & Cables: -any- sign or suspicion of corrosion at connecting lugs, or severe bend or kink evident along the wiring sheath of any cable / at any component, just replace it.

-All- Fuses and Relays in the Engine Compartment fuse box, need to be inspected & re-seated.

And the Passenger Cabin fuse box.

Any dull /oxidized fuse blades or relay blades -- treat the fuse or Relay as suspect.

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You are using the above as a "check list" - noting any issues found, and checking / crossing off each item as it is inspected & verified. You need to keep track of the work you do, as you Q/A and clear each item.

You need to note / keep track of the work you do, so you are not re-visiting checked items / "guessing" further down the line during the diagnostic.

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There is no "right or wrong" way to do the above.

The adage "All things electrical start at the Battery" hold true: you may want to start there, then fuse boxes as the Primary Diagnostic step. Due to the amount of motor work you have done, I would start as ordered above, if here.

I haven't including any voltage or resistance / load checking steps: purpose of above is to first verify electrical system integrity, before delving into voltage testing. Of course, that should be part of the Diagnostic, for any component you find that may be suspect. Use the TIS wiring diagrams as needed.

I also haven't included any "wiggle testing" of wiring, during the Diagnostic. It is a part of electrical wiring / harness checking: however I have -no idea- of the condition of wiring or connectors on the motor, as such, "wiggle testing" may exasperate an intermittent issue to become apparent, or it may actually (cause) a new issue. How / if you choose to proceed is your call: again you are the "tech on-site" the the diagnostic.

If you have read this far: congratulations. :) Above is a lot, adapt it to your own plan as needed, shout out w/ any questions, will try to help.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
If you have read this far: congratulations. :) Above is a lot, adapt it to your own plan as needed, shout out w/ any questions, will try to help.
I appreciate all the help for sure. I have done some of what you said, but not all, and not in any specific order. I just replaced the battery and terminals I know that is good. But beyond some jiggle testing and light visuals I haven't gone through anything.

The reverse issue is gone. Only happened for a little bit after I was spraying starting fluid everywhere looking for a vacuum leak. This morning it was completely gone. Drove around and it never came back. But I did get a misfire code for cylinder 1.

I got it in my head for some odd reason that I may have a head gasket leak or something. Probably just from worm holing research. So I did a compression test. Here were the results: 122, 130, 125, 127. So I am happy with the compression. When I finished I threw in the new plugs. So it now has new plugs, wires, and coils and they all seem to be working well. I have been getting a little bit of a fuel smell when I first start up sometimes. But it goes away after warm. I thought it was the EVAP canister at first, but that doesn't seem like something that would go away when warm.

So with that smell I then thought the map sensor. Replaced, and still getting it a bit. So my next thought was fuel injector on cylinder 1. May have a loose connection or an intermittent fault at the injector. That could be the cause of the problem on impacts. That was my thought for looking at the injector since the only code I have received in the last few days was that P0301. Like I have said the CEL flashes on the bumps, but doesn't stay so no codes are stored so I have no idea what it is from. My new UltraGauge comes in today, and from what I have seen, it may store that code for me so I may be able to narrow this down much quicker after that. We will see.

Oh, and I completely read the entire message you sent! Having someone like you helping has given me a ton of guidance. I love wrenching and fixing, but a lot of this is new territory for me on a diagnostic level. I appreciate it!
 
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