[sublime]

For the last few months, there has been a slight raspy noise that is heard upon acceleration, mostly when going at city or highway driving speeds when you need to accelerate going uphill. I thought it was an exhaust gasket that was leaking but an exhaust shop did a thorough search and found nothing wrong. In fact, it took a second visit with a test drive with me driving and the shop manager as the passenger to finally replicate and demonstrate the problem. At first, they only tried revving it up while parked, which did not produce the noise.

The noise came on while on a road trip in southern California, near the Mexican border, a long 2500 kms (1500 miles) from home, up through the Rocky mountains in southern British Columbia. At that time, I was worried my exhaust would break before I got back home. But, the noise did not get any louder or quieter, and it turned out that my exhaust system was just fine. I've put about the same amount of mileage on the car since getting back. In a month, I'm going back to California for a week, this time only as far as LA. Though not as comfortable, it would be great to save on gas and take the Corolla over our V8 Tundra 4x4 or V6 Grand Caravan. And I should get that problem fixed anyways - it may cause more damage if I let it break, not to mention inconvenience - especially if it happens on this trip. I won't have time to sit around and wait to get it fixed. I like to use the Corolla whenever possible for better fuel economy, more manoeuvrable in traffic and fits into smaller parking spaces easier.

A while ago, I remember reading a thread on this problem on this forum. It sounded like exactly what I was experiencing. Wish I had bookmarked it, because now I can't find it, even using the search bar on the forum as well as Google. I've come up with lots of Corolla transmission posts, but not one like this. The closest I could find was this one http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...ining-siren-like-sound-when-accelerating.html but in that case, it's more of a whistling noise. Mine is a slight raspy noise, that sounds like a very small exhaust leak, but I've been told that my exhaust has absolutely no leaks. There is a TSB for 2003-08 Corollas with automatic transmissions where the transmission cooler lines have been modified to get rid of a whistle or hoot noise (not quite the same noise I have which sounds more like a slight raspy noise) http://www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/92202/toyota-corolla-musical-transmission

Does anyone remember seeing a thread on this, or know of one either on this forum or elsewhere online? Or what keywords I need to use in a search? I cannot seem to find one, though I'm sure I saw something on it a few months ago. Since my car is out of warranty, and if I wanted to get that TSB done, I'd have to pay out of pocket. It would be a real shame and waste of money if I did that and it turned out not to be the source of the problem. The car is a 2003 Corolla CE, automatic, with about 105,000 kms (65,000 miles). Thank you in advance for any tips or suggestions! :smile:

 

[invader]

Long post, limited info... Could you produce a video with audio of the alleged raspy noise?

 

[sublime]

Long post, limited info... Could you produce a video with audio of the alleged raspy noise?

I wanted to give as much detail as possible, maybe it was too much information. In any case, I took the car for a drive, tried recording with my iPhone, but the sound reproduction is not good enough. The raspy noise really isn't THAT quiet, but it's not that loud either. It's quiet enough that with all of the other road noise, and the limitations of the microphone, that unfortunately, you cannot hear the noise in question in the video. But when you are in the car, you can definitely hear it. Wish you were closer, I'd say hop in the car and we'll go for a drive. You'd hear it as we accelerate up the first hill.

I have a keen sense of hearing, and this noise, as minimal as it is, is really irritating to me. And... I'm not sure if it's leading up to a more serious problem left untreated. Or maybe it's just a noise that will be there but not cause any damage? Anyone know if that TSP mentioned above was more for comfort and noise reduction, or would it cause any damage if left unfixed? (I'm not even sure that it's the same issue my car is having).

 

[mikered30]

Are you sure it is the transmission and not the engine pinging under heavy acceleration?

 

[invader]

Pinging (pre-ignition) is a considered possibility which can't be confirmed without hearing it, as sublime is unable to identify the noise source.

 

[sublime]

Are you sure it is the transmission and not the engine pinging under heavy acceleration?

Pinging (pre-ignition) is a considered possibility which can't be confirmed without hearing it, as sublime is unable to identify the noise source.

It's definitely not pinging. I know what pinging sounds like (and have driven other older cars that ping), and this is a much different sound. It really is a raspy sound, in fact, when I first heard it, I was sure that it was an exhaust gasket leaking. Pinging does not sound like this. This noise was never there before, and just came all of a sudden one day and has never gone away, after many gas fill ups from various brands of gas stations. You hear this raspy (not pinging) noise only under acceleration, usually going uphill, as mentioned above. To me, it sounded like an exhaust leak, but the garage told me it might be a transmission issue after he found out about that TSB, probably the same one I mentioned above. Although that one produces a howling noise, mine is a raspy noise.

My mother had this car from new, and I was a frequent driver of this car since day one, so I can honestly say this noise was never there until that one day a few months ago. The car has always been very well maintained, driven gently, no check engine lights on, etc. And fairly low mileage for the year.

 

[invader]

We can speculate all day, but we need to hear it before any diagnosis can be considered.

 

[sublime]

We can speculate all day, but we need to hear it before any diagnosis can be considered.

OK, well if you're up for a trip to BC, come on over! :grin: I don't anticipate coming to Kapuskasing any time soon, unless I go back to Montreal, then it could be on the way and I'll meet up with you. But I'd like to get it fixed before making a long road trip like that. And before my trip to California if possible.

Yeah, it's definitely best to hear the noise in person. Unfortunately, as we've discovered, it cannot be reliably reproduced in a video. The garage I took it to (Midas) ruled out the exhaust system. He speculated that it could be a transmission problem based on that TSB he read about, which I think is the same one I found online. Only thing is that the noise they describe is howling, mine is raspy. Not quite the same noise. If it were, I'd have had it fixed already. Maybe I should anyways, the only potential pitfall is that the noise may still be there and I'll have replaced perfectly good parts that didn't need replacing.

As difficult as it is to describe a noise, hopefully this will be close enough for someone to recognize if you've also had this problem on a Corolla. Or if you know which keywords I should use to search for more detailed info, please let me know!

 

[mikered30]

Is the transmission due for a fluid change/filter cleaning?

 

[sublime]

Is the transmission due for a fluid change/filter cleaning?

No, just done a few months ago right at 100,000 kms (62,000 miles), full and proper flush (not just draining the old fluid, but a full flush) and refilled with synthetic transmission fluid, proper specification/grade. Did it the right way for the long haul. I think. I hope. And the transmission fluid was also changed in about 2008 at around 50,000 kms (31,000 miles). My mother had it changed at the Toyota dealer.

Car has been very well taken care of since new. No hard driving by mother (little old lady) or myself. The first half of its life saw a mix of city and highway driving, with a bit more city than highway. The second half of its life (mileage) has also been a mix of city and highway driving, but with a lot more highway driving, including several cross-country trips, including driving on highways and Interstates through the Rockies in Canada and the US. Maybe it's time I retired this 13 year old car from long road trips and just keep it for local driving. But I see other people with way more miles on their Corollas and still driving them wherever they need to go. I've got a nice, fairly new, but very gas guzzling Tundra I could use. Just trying to save money on gas (Tundra uses double what the Corolla does, at best). I just want to get my money's worth out of the Corolla. I've put quite a bit of money into it for mechanical work, tires, and electronic goodies. Way more money than I'd ever get back if I sold it. And its got sentimental value.

 

[75aces]

Try pulling the trans pan and see if there's shavings in the oil.

 

[sublime]

Try pulling the trans pan and see if there's shavings in the oil.

I'm not mechanically inclined enough to do that, or at least not anymore. Last time I pulled a trans pan (on a Ford Tempo many years ago) it made such a mess on the ground, on me, and only about half the fluid went into the drain pan, I don't want to do it again. But, I just had the transmission fluid changed a few months ago (and this was when the raspy noise was already present), I'm sure the mechanic would have told me if there were metal shavings in the trans fluid. At least, I would hope they'd tell me. I'll call them during business hours and ask if they check for that when doing a transmission fluid flush and fill. And with such low mileage and gentle driving (much of it highway) I'd be surprised if there were metal shavings in the oil. But, anything is possible.

 

[hardtopte72]

The "Whistle or Hoot" TSB noise can take many forms. Do you have the old cooler lines? If so, replace them and report back. With no video, we can only speculate.

You could also try and have a dealer which sees your car more often for a diagnosis and then report their recommendation.

 

[sublime]

The "Whistle or Hoot" TSB noise can take many forms. Do you have the old cooler lines? If so, replace them and report back. With no video, we can only speculate.

You could also try and have a dealer which sees your car more often for a diagnosis and then report their recommendation.

I was wondering about that... actually hoping that it makes other noises, or maybe different people describe the noise differently. It would be great if that TSB would take care of the issue. Nothing worse than guessing at what needs fixing and replacing a bunch of parts that didn't need to be replaced. It's too bad the video I tried to shoot didn't pick up the noise. Probably would have needed a camera under the car to record that noise.

Yes, I still have the original cooler lines. I'll call the local Toyota dealer tomorrow and ask them about the TSB. Being that car is way past the age and mileage limitations, and well outside of warranty, I doubt it would be covered for free, but hey, never hurts to ask! If not, then I'll ask how much it would cost to replace the lines. I'll also call that independent shop I've taken the car to, and see how much they would charge. Being that I just moved to this city, I've only had the Corolla to this particular Toyota dealer once, and that was for the free airbag recalls, so not much history with them.

Something else worth asking them is if there is any potential for damage or a breakdown to occur if this is not dealt with. Or, is it simply a matter of a faint noise that will do no harm, other than irritate me, lol! I just like everything to be working right. Nothing bothers me more than driving a car with something not working right and/or making funny noises. Even worse, is not taking care of something and before you know it, there's 10 things not working right and it makes the car feel like a hooptie POS.

 

[kerryn]

Might want to check engine, exhaust and transmission mounts. Seeing as this only happens when you accelerate and there is torque being generated this could be just a vibration.

 

[sublime]

Might want to check engine, exhaust and transmission mounts. Seeing as this only happens when you accelerate and there is torque being generated this could be just a vibration.

There's a slight possibility a engine or transmission mount has a bit of free play. On an unrelated issue, when backing up over a bump, such as backing into my driveway when I have to drive over the concrete lip where the curb is lower, I would hear a click. It happened when I got new front springs and struts, so I thought it was something related to that. The shop could not reproduce the sound until I went with them, and they speculated it was an engine or transmission mount. But this happened well before the raspy noise I'm having now. Not sure how a worn engine or transmission mount would affect this - perhaps causing a gap to form in the exhaust under load, or acceleration? Again, I hate to change parts I'm not sure about, because I could be changing parts that didn't need replacing. Is there a way to "test" if they need replacing?

As for the TSB, I called my local Toyota dealer. Since I'm in Canada, they could not find the TSB as the numbers are different in the US. I called a US Toyota dealer (close enough that I could go there if needed). They found the TSB and quoted on parts, about $150 plus about $300 labor, or was it the other way around? In any case, about $450 USD. But, he said the noise I'm describing is NOT like the noise in the TSB, and said I'd probably be replacing perfectly good parts that don't need replacing. It was a rare case when these parts needed to be replaced, and sounded like water screeching through the plumbing pipes in your house when you partially open a spigot and listen from your basement or crawlspace. It's the sound of transmission fluid rushing through the lines, and at speeds under 40 mph. Mine is more like a raspy exhaust and can be heard at city and highway speeds. I've heard it at 75 mph.

So... I'm really stumped with what to do. I can't seem to find anything else online - be it on this website, or on any other website. No mechanic has been able to find the source of this noise - both in person inspections on the hoist and with road tests and by description over the phone. And it seems like nobody here has personally experienced this noise on his or her own Corolla. My biggest concern is that something is being slowly damaged and will break. And secondly, the noise is really irritating. It may not bother some people, but I can't stand it.

 

[sublime]

Post video with audio before this thread reaches 3 pages.

Well... as you remember, back in the second post to this thread, you suggested I make a video, but when I tried to record it, the noise in question was not reproduced on the video. Maybe it was just too quiet of a noise and the other road noise, etc, drowned it out, or it's not the best kind of microphone for capturing this sound. I "could" post a video, but without being able to hear that noise, it won't be very helpful. If I knew where the sound was coming from, and could find a way to attach the camera under the car while driving, then I could upload a useful video. The next best thing I've been able to do is describe the noise.

At this point, it's been suggested that it could be exhaust, transmission, cooling lines, tranny fluid, exhaust mounts, engine mounts, transmission mounts, pinging, etc. FWIW, three different mechanics have not been able to find the cause, and they've test driven the car and had it on the hoist. I'm ready to give up and just keep driving the car and see if something breaks.

 

[sublime]

I still can't hear it...

Well, I don't know what more I can do. Come on over to BC and I'll take for a drive so you can hear it. If my camera (mic) won't pick up the sound, there's no way to share it online by video. I have an iPhone 6S Plus, pretty good mic, but apparently not good enough for all situations. Sorry you can't hear it.

 

[Briand_oh]

I'm sorry if you've covered this before, but were you under car with it running on hoist and made sure its not any exhaust related heat shield issue? Here in NE Ohio, most shield and/or fasteners are in poor shape due to corrosion. Are your spring loaded fasteners for front to muffler OK? Flex when under car, there is a soft metal "doughnut" that may have gone away?

 

[sublime]

I'm sorry if you've covered this before, but were you under car with it running on hoist and made sure its not any exhaust related heat shield issue? Here in NE Ohio, most shield and/or fasteners are in poor shape due to corrosion. Are your spring loaded fasteners for front to muffler OK? Flex when under car, there is a soft metal "doughnut" that may have gone away?

No, I wasn't under the car with the mechanic when it was running on the hoist. There's a sign that says no customers allowed in the work areas, but I see other customers going in, so I probably could have gone in. I phoned them back yesterday though, and asked about this. Since my car has been in that shop a few times in the last few months, they tell me they've done a very through inspection of the exhaust. The first time I brought it in, it was just for this noise, and an oil change. They had two mechanics looking it over, and I think for a while, one mechanic was in the car, with it running on the hoist, revving it and also engaging the transmission to simulate it being driven.

They tell me they checked over the whole exhaust very thoroughly (three times now) and could not find anything wrong with it. I would have to think they checked the spring loaded fasteners and the metal doughnut. My first thought when I heard the noise was that a metal doughnut was leaking exhaust and I mentioned that to them. The car has been back two more times for other things and they checked for the source of that noise each time. They also suggested the TSB I originally mentioned, but I've ruled that out now, as it is not the same noise or under the same circumstances as my car.

This car is originally from out east (Ontario snow/rust belt), it went through 11 winters. It was my mother's car. Although she drove it in the winter, she did not drive it too much and she had oil based rustproofing put on every 18 months (which wouldn't help the exhaust, but there is no rust on any body panel). It's still the original exhaust (105,000 kms or 66,000 miles). Maybe I should take the car to another shop, maybe one that specializes in exhaust, and have them check it over. A fresh set of eyes might uncover something.