Toyota Nation Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
07 Camry
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Need some input on this one. I got my smog check and tech told me that the reason I failed is due to "Function". My engine timing is off by 90 degrees.

Anyway, I took it to the mechanic and he told me that its possible that my pulley is bad or when the engine was changed a year ago whoever changed it may have used the wrong type pulley or just doesn't know.

When the marker is on dead center the "contact point is at 1" but "piston 1" is quarter ways down (not at top).

When mechanic turns the pulley so that piston 1 goes to top position, marker goes 70-90 degrees out.

Anyone out there ever had this happened? What did you do to alleviate the problem? My mechanic suggested replacing the pulley or disassemble the pulley and make sure its the correct type, or not slipping, or damaged.

Anyway, thanks for the input.

<a href="http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a...rrent=Markeratdeadcenterbutpistonisquarte.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a132/YZF-USER/Markeratdeadcenterbutpistonisquarte.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,403 Posts
Can you define what “function” means?

Did the car fail because the emissions were too high, does the test analyze engine timing?

Does the engine run OK? Normally an engine would have all kinds of issues if the timing were off 90 degrees.

Remove the number one plug and stick a long rod into the cylinder. Rotate the engine until TDC on the compression stoke, the rod being at its highest point. Then look at the distributor to determine if the rotor as at No 1 spark plug terminal (within a few degrees).

If everything is OK here, the outer ring of the balancer may have rotated giving an indication the timing is off.

If things are not normal and the timing is off by 90 degrees, the key holding the pulley to the crank may have sheared.

In both cases the fix is to get another pulley, if so attempt to find a used one from a junk yard or a new aftermarket one. Toyota most likely would want too much for one.

It is not a large job to replace the pulley and fix the problem unless the crank is damaged.
 

·
Registered
07 Camry
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The paper I got from the Smog Check Vehicle Inspection Report (VIR)

Functional Check: Fail
I'm not sure if the tech manually checked the timing with a timing light but he suggested that the marker is off by at least 90degrees. Maybe his testing machine told him that, I'm not really sure coz he never took the skid plate off to check where the marker was.

Does the engine run OK? Actually, after the mechanic did the "number one plug and a long stick rod into the cylinder, rotated the engine pulley until TDC on the compression stroke, rod bearing at its highest and distributor contact point at near 1 or may few degrees off". My engine ran so much better than when I first got it from my cousin.

You share the same theory as my mechanic did with "the key holding the pulley to the crank may have sheared."

The other theory he has is whoever replaced the engine last year may have used a wrong type of pulley so it cannot be set correctly.

Infact, the mechanic tried retarding the setting of the distributor just to see if the marker will go to dead center but each time he does this the engine runs rough.

Thanks for all the input. I'll try to call around town for a used pulley.
 

·
YOTA Master
'93 2wd P/U
Joined
·
2,434 Posts
there would be no other pulleys that would fit, so that is not the problem.

I've never seen a 22R pulley seperate....Yet. But that is a posibility. I have seen a couple pulleys come loose and chew up the keyway. this would be a bad situation because the crankshaft can also be damaged.

I'd recommend taking the pulley off for inspection.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
i hope that tech is checking your timing with the engine RUNNING. It sounds like he doesn't know what he is talking about. Your truck would be running like CRAP if it was that far out.

take it to a different smog shop and ask them if they will just CHECK the timing for you. Take two minutes and they should be cool about just doing it for free.

if not, where in NorCal are you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
maybe he was checking it with the pickup on the wrong spark plug wire?

is there a connector that has to be jumped on the toyota? It's been a while since i've adjusted mine, because it's always at spec
 

·
Registered
07 Camry
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Vicoor - The second time I went back there he was nice enough to check the timing first and told me that he still couldn't find the marker and didn't count the 2nd visit as the retest. Whoosssh, got lucky there. I don't wanna pay another $60.

maybe he was checking it with the pickup on the wrong spark plug wire? He tried plug 1 and 4 but couldn't locate it neither my mechanic.


I'd recommend taking the pulley off for inspection. - This is what my mechanic said but my issue is funds. hehe... How long do you take this will take 2-3 hours tops?

Overall, I really wanna get this truck pass smog and repair/replace the pulley. The engine is running well for some reason though. I pulled all the plugs earlier this afternoon and looked okay. I sanded them and reinstalled.

I'm in Stockton.



 

·
YOTA Master
'93 2wd P/U
Joined
·
2,434 Posts
the truck may be running fine and the timing may be right on the money, but if the mark is wrong there is no way to verify the timing.

getting the pulley off is usually not that big of a problem a good tech could do it in 10 minutes or so, but the problem is, what will you find when you get it apart?
 

·
Registered
07 Camry
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
the truck may be running fine and the timing may be right on the money, but if the mark is wrong there is no way to verify the timing.

getting the pulley off is usually not that big of a problem a good tech could do it in 10 minutes or so, but the problem is, what will you find when you get it apart?

Well, this is my biggest fear but who knows maybe just need a key replacement. Keepin fingers crossed as wife told me to stay away from the savings acct.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
maybe inspect the pulley with a looking glass and find some remnant of a mark and rehighlight it with "white-out" or other form of permanent/highly visible marking
 

·
Registered
07 Camry
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
maybe inspect the pulley with a looking glass and find some remnant of a mark and rehighlight it with "white-out" or other form of permanent/highly visible marking
Just did exactly as you said earlier. Here is the picture of the marker @ TDC while piston at top and contact point at pos. 1. However, when I fire up the engine the marker goes 90 degrees out ( see other picture).

Oh! While staring at the darn thing I noticed my oil pan is leaking. Great!!! Shot taken after I wiped off all the oil.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
I don't understand what you mean when you say it moves 90* out when you fire it up. The timing can really only be checked on this car by a timing light while it's running. That dot should appear somewhere near the timing teeth when the timing light illuminates it.
 

·
Registered
07 Camry
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I did use a timing light and the marker is no where near the timing teeth. Anyway, I should have this pulley pulled out and checked.




I don't understand what you mean when you say it moves 90* out when you fire it up. The timing can really only be checked on this car by a timing light while it's running. That dot should appear somewhere near the timing teeth when the timing light illuminates it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
hey chris. I talked to my boss today. He has two of our trucks at his house right now and has owned way too many to count. He says it wouldn't be the first time he has seen the pulley slip on the hub. No broken keyway, just the pulley slipped on the hub. Says it sounds just like what you have.

This is the repair he suggested:

Take out the spark plug in cylinder number one and put a coat hanger or whatever else in the hole. Turn the crank until that coat hanger is at the highest point it can reach (TDC of cyl #1). Then you need to somehow align the pulley to TDC. Perhaps a known good pulley replacement would just be easier at this point?
Parts store/junkyard can find replacements.
 

·
YOTA Master
'93 2wd P/U
Joined
·
2,434 Posts
The problem with just "feeling" tdc is that there is about 15deg around the tdc that you can't really feel the difference.

To actually find tdc you need a piston stop and turn the engine gently by had until it bumps into the stop, Mark on the pulley where that is then turn the engine the other way til it stops and mark it. then split the difference and that is true TDC
 

·
Registered
07 Camry
Joined
·
129 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Toytruck and Vicoor, Thanks for the suggestions. I got a second opinion from a mechanic today and he suspects that the crankshaft pulley harmonic balancer came off or the glue wears off. With a lose harmonic balancer it can throw the pulley off after starting the engine. Anyway, bottomline I will have the pulley taken off.

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
keep us updated
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top