[Fanaticfan]

Howdy,

This may be an odd couple, but I'm considering these two cars. TL SH-AWD with Advance package; Avalon Limited.

Both are great cars. Avalon is roomier in the back (though the trunk is smaller than on my old '97, substantially so!). Quieter. Probably a more comfy long-haul highway cruiser.

TL is, not surprisingly, firmer but more fun to drive. Tech seems more ergonomic and well-integrated into the overall control systems. The tech in the Avalon seems, by comparison, an afterthought, and far less ergonomic.

Both have plenty of performance and reliability. The Limited's FOB proximity detector unlocks all 4 doors, the TL's only the driver's it seems.

Any thoughts or suggestions that might sway me one way or the other? Looks don't matter to me. I'm not going to the race track any time soon, if ever. Live in a climate and terrain where either will be fine all four seasons.

I'd care less when the Avalon got dinged. I'd worry more about neighbors/co-workers giving me the Evil Eye if I got the TL.

Any thoughts or help welcome, thanks! I know a lot of it has to do with deciding what I really want.



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[TrailDust]

I have been a Toyota owner and an Acura owner (Integra and a Legend), and for me the deciding factor to go with Toyota has been the difference in customer care from the top down, ie., experiences dealing at the corporate level, dealership management level, sales staff, and in particular service departments. Even as bad as people may complain about Toyota, it pales in comparison to my experiences with Acura. The ultimate thing that got me about Acura was the arrogance of staff at every dealership I visited, with their attitude being "we know Acuras are good..the cars sell themselves...we don't really care about you...." Perfect example of that is the last time I ever drove into an Acura dealership. I was looking to trade in my Legend for something new like a TL and at three different dealerships no one, not a single salesman, came out to talk to me! Finally, at the third dealership, I drove in under the eyes of three salesmen standing in the showroom telling jokes, where I proceeded to walk around the dealership for 10 minutes looking at cars, then walked into the showroom for about 3 or 4 minutes, and no one talked to me. I walked straight to my Legend and began to drive out, and at that moment a salesman opened the showroom door and shouted, "Did you need help?" :nofu: I shouted, "No, f** y**, you'll never get my business again as long as I live!" and drove away and never came back.

The arrogance is bad enough, and the service departments are just as bad. I even had to threaten an Acura dealership with a lawsuit and a complaint filing with the state attorney general's office before they relented on a simple water pump replacement that they double billed me over, and finally refunded the double billed amount.

Short of it is the Acura is a more fun car to drive, and the Toyota is a more practical car to drive. Use your gut feeling about which type you want to own to help with the decision, but as my experiences above indicates, be very wary of the poor, crappy, disgusting customer service you'll get at Acura.

 

[Fanaticfan]

I've lived all around the country, dealing with both Toyota and Honda service for many years.

While I'm listening to what you're saying, I really think it ultimately depends on a number of factors, in roughly this order: individual dealer, how busy things are at the moment, whether (if you're looking to buy or sell) you fit the profile that month or quarter of a likely prospect, whether you're a regular customer or not....

Generally, I've found if I'm calm, patient and rational, the people on the other side are the same. I've had bad experiences, too, with Toyota and Honda dealers ignoring me, more when I was younger. With, in one case, a Honda service dept. that took absolutely forever my first time there, to the point of my completely losing my cool - but for years afterward, that dealer ended up being the best service I've ever had, after they apologized for my first experience.

I've always felt new car salespeople are hesitant to spend time or attention on what they consider an unlikely prospect, more so if they're busy.

So let's put that aside as a factor and just say I'd be happy with either of the dealerships I'm talking to, that they're known quantities; what else would you add?



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[Cygnus_X1]

I'm kind of in the same boat, I have a 2007 Avalon XL with 94k miles and I'm looking to get something new. BTW, I bought the car new and it's been 100% trouble free the entire time and it's still rock solid and rattle free. It was $26k and it's been the best car I've ever owned.

I always loved the TL and when I heard a DVD audio demo in 2009 I just couldn't believe how great the ELS stereo sounded. I've taken a DVD-A disc and listened to it in many cars since then and the ELS is still way beyond anything else I've heard. I kind of want that car just for the stereo.

Unfortunately, once you get used to an Avalon, the TL is very cramped (especially the back seat) and it's a lot louder on the road, especially the SH-AWD version. The 2012 TL is a little quieter but it doesn't glide down the road like an Avalon. Plus, people love sitting in the back seat of my car, especially when they recline. To me, comfort is really the deciding factor between the two cars since reliability should be good with either car.

Now that the 2013 Avalon is announced, I'm going to wait to drive one before I decide anything. If it had DVD-A then the decision would be over. The only other car that I liked as much as my Avalon was a 2012 Hyundai Genesis 4.6. Very comfortable, quiet, and fast with a decent DVD audio system. I also REALLY liked the Lexus LS460 but that was more than I want to pay. I'm also intrigued by the 2013 ES300 series; that might be the car I buy since they're basically stretching it out to Avalon proportions and it has all the nav and stereo upgrades you can't get in an Avalon. Hopefully they don't price it out of range.

Good luck to you, I'm sure you'd love either car.

 

[Fanaticfan]

Thanks! Yeah agreed; that back seat in the Avalon is simply amazing for space, I feel like I'm giving anyone back there a limo ride.

Sound system on TL, equally cool.

You remind me though, yes: the back seats on the 2012 Avalon _recline_. Wow! Sounds silly to some but for a car like this, a real luxury touch.

The thing is, the Avalon is such a cocoon it's almost lulling on the road. Otoh I've also found sustained road noise on a long drive can be exhausting (worst case of this is a long airplane flight, for extreme comparison).

Yeah, that's part of it, actually: the misery of flying over the past decade has me craving the quiet, smooth, spacious, comfortable contrast of the Avalon. It's a real escape and a serious alternative to flying for me at this point.



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[TrailDust]

I've always felt new car salespeople are hesitant to spend time or attention on what they consider an unlikely prospect, more so if they're busy.

True, dealerships vary. I was in Southern California, and for reference I drove in with my Legend and dressed in my business suit, looking at top-of-the-line 40K+ models. If they're too busy to key in on that or consider a person like that an unlikely prospect, then I don't know what qualifies with SoCal Acura salesmen as a lucrative potential sale.

As for adding anything else, again I'd say you really have to look introspectively at yourself to decide between the two vehicles. The Acura is sportier and more fun to drive, and it also has better styling and better "rep" with younger people, while the Avalon is more practical for all around use, but it carries the stigma of being an "old person's car." Only you will know which profile suites you best. :thumbsup:

 

[246986]

I would check out the new 2013 Avalon before you make your choice. Possible new powerplant and a more "refined" transmission. It has paddle shifters so I'm assuming it could be more fun to drive.

 

[Fanaticfan]

Not to be too prejudiced, but I'd never buy a car in SoCal, Florida, Texas or New Jersey. Or Long Island. Let us just say that the vast gulf between reality and fantasy tends to be impressive for a lot of people living in those parts of America. Blame Hollywood, Miami Vice, Willie Nelson and the Mafia if needed. I semi-jest, of course.... but I think half-seriously, in those places if you don't look like a movie star, sales and service people just treat you like crap. You're not "cool" enough for attention. It's quite silly and superficial. The whole cult of "the beautiful people" started in the 60's, and it's only gotten worse ever since.

The hipster or old man perception means nothing to me. Savvy kids are buying used Avalons in droves 'cause they realize they can get an incredible car if they ignore the auto industry marketing hype and skip BMWs that break down weekly and cost a mint to fix. Meanwhile, old guys can be amazed at how lazy the TL's voice-controls let you be, and how on rails the car always feels, wonderful if you're constantly trembling with palsy. Plus, there's the secret foldout walker attachment you can add to the trunk in aftermarket....

Really, the actualities in everyday driving conditions negate most if not all of the marketing hype and image perception.

As you say, it's ultimately up to what combination of cost, reliability, comfort, and safety works for each of us. Performance is almost an irrelevant edge case these days, unless you go to the track regularly.

And few current cars under the price of $250,000 US are really all that attractive; they're safer in traffic with high fronts and backs, having to contend as they now do with teenagers in big pickup trucks and cellphone-armed moms in SUVs with horrible visibility and maneuverability. Unfortunately, that design trade-off to keep cars from slipping under large vehicle bumpers in accidents makes 'em mostly boxy and ugly. For the same reason, the ones that look sleek are more dangerous to their inhabitants. I'd love an Exige-S, but don't want to be decapitated by a Murano, for example.

Most of the imagined thrills of driving are more easily, accessibly and cheaply had in Forza or Gran Turismo 5 anyways.



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[joedr]

I drove the '11 Acura & decided to get the Avy, primarily because of the interior room and the ride. Crisp handling is not near the top of my priorities. And finally, I hadn't had a full size sedan for decades; I'm happy with my car.

 

[Fanaticfan]

I love the drive of the TL; I love the ride of the Avalon. Does that make sense? It's the inevitable trade off. You can't have both.

Well, unless you get one of each. Next lifetime, maybe.

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[rmike1991]

I think it's all personal preference. I can tell you why I chose the Avalon over anything else out there.
1. Space (I feel good, so good, so good...)
2. I absolutely HATE the bucket seats and almost every car now days has them (including Acura)
3. Comfort - nice quiet ride. You will feel it especially on the long distance journey.
4. Turning radius is better then on most cars.
5. No premium gas.
When I was shopping for a new (to me) car, I test drove many different kinds of cars and once I got in Avalon I did not want to get out.

...the back seats on the 2012 Avalon _recline_. Wow!...

My 05 has those too. I never enjoy them since I always sit in the front
Good luck!

 

[Fanaticfan]

Yes the bucket seats are a pretty binary thing: they either fit you like a glove (me) or they risk being uncomfortable (my wife). I worry about the latter on a long trip. I guess you could argue they make you stop and get out to walk around more frequently, which is a good thing....?

Also yeah, premium, I've paid for that with my '97 Avalon. It was okay in '97 when gas got down to under $2.00/ gal., but those days are never coming again. I wouldn't be surprised to see $5.00+ this summer, unfortunately, scary as that sounds; all it would take would be one glitch in the seasonal refinery maintenance cycle.

So regular unleaded is a definite appeal.



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[Minus (-)]

My main factors for choosing the avy was the "old man car" stigma, the size of it, the interior was roomy,reg gas, and i figured nobody in my age bracket(24) would have it, let alone hook it up. At the end of the day, i can't lie....those reclining back seats had me like SOLD! ....But i enjoy the ride and it has a nice amount of kick to be such a big car.....i dunno about road noise,my bass kills that!.........u want room and comfort go for the avy

 

[Fanaticfan]

Just saw Motor Trend's coverage of the 2013. Trunk is back to 16 cu. ft. Big plus. Looks sharper, too. I worry it might start losing its old man stigma now. Too bad! <g>



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[Grammar Police]

Biggest factor for me when deciding this same dilemma was how many of each car do I see on the road? I am not one to follow the Jonses. Same with all the mid level lexuses... Just way too many Lexus and Acuras in my neck of the woods. Not alot of newer Avalons.

 

[mos805]

Well I owned a 3rd gen Acura TL and traded it in for my Avalon and have no regrets whatsovever. I know your looking at the 4th gen TL but still think what I experienced might have some correlation with your decision. The Avalon is a nicer car even though the TL is more "upscale" the Avalon is also more roomy and yes the reclining seats are so nice for the few occasions I'm in the back seat. The leather in the Acura was pretty cheap feeling and did not hold up well whereas my Avalon leather feels nicer and after 88000 miles still looks good as new. Also the Toyota is more dependable, I bought my Acura thinking it would be Honda reliable but that was not the case it takes much more maintenence than my Avalon will and it seemed towards the end that almost every paycheck I was buying a part for it and the transmission sucked if I hadn't traded it in I would have had to replace or repair it. The TL was slightly more sporty but it was a longshot from being a sports sedan still if you want sporty there are plenty of better sports sedans out there but not any luxurious sedans that can compete with the Avalon in terms of price and amenities, plus add in the reliability and the space (more rear seat leg room than a Lexus LS460!) and the Avalon is the better car imo.

 

[Fanaticfan]

My biggest issue at this point is if we go Avalon, I'm going to have to wait for the 2013; the 16 cu. ft. trunk is hugely useful on our '97 Avalon.



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[grandpapa]

I once compared the TL and Avalon....just like most of us here.

We got the Avalon because
1) we use the backseat all the time and it's easy to get in and out for my kids and my parents
2) like the rear sunshade (again, for the back seat riders)
3) I have some pretty good toyota dealer around
4) probably cheaper insurance.

If not because of the backseat usage, I probably would have picked the TL for myself

 

[TrailDust]

My main factors for choosing the avy was the "old man car" stigma, the size of it, the interior was roomy,reg gas, and i figured nobody in my age bracket(24) would have it, let alone hook it up. At the end of the day, i can't lie....those reclining back seats had me like SOLD! ....But i enjoy the ride and it has a nice amount of kick to be such a big car.....i dunno about road noise,my bass kills that!.........u want room and comfort go for the avy

The massive trunk and the excellent leg room and space for rear seat passengers is what sold me. :thumbsup:

 

[Fanaticfan]

Yes, that's the thing; the back seat mattered more before we became empty nesters; otoh it may matter again in a few years, hopefully.

Meanwhile, the need for a comfortable long-trip vehicle is very closely in balance with the fun factor for the driver.

What's fun for me is not necessarily fun for my wife....



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