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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, everyone. I am still here! I all but gave up on the door, a body shop can get it open in anywhere from 30 seconds to about 15 minutes depending on how rough they are with the door . I will wait until it's fully operational etc and then just drive it over there. I have the nice tool set now. I just can't figure it out. And I am not willing to compromise my perfectly fine door, on my non-junk non-stripped non-stolen car. I'll just let them do it, maybe they can show me once the inside is off, needs handle replaced anyway. But. This post is not about the door.

This one, I have been debating on documenting with either my phone camera or my good camera and then upload process (different YouTube channels? I forget but I'll figure it out) because it may be an interesting case-study.

OK, so, quit babbling, Joe, what's going on..

Okay, as you know, I rescued the car from The Hood and drove it down here with extremely retarded timing. Nevermind how a quick turn of the distributor solves that.. nope, ancient history, got it down here, changed the oil on the fuel wash and put oil in the cylinders etc, not sure if in the correct order but I got it done. Then did about a half dozen piston soaks, some on warm engine then pulling plugs some cold for weeks but did a few. Had a stubborn start once but the liquid always leaks back down and then goes out exhaust, so. Point: Car been sitting Oil changed, full gas, AC works good.. car sitting. Battery on a maintainer.

I think there is either a crack in the engine somewhere, or the heater core, though I don't think it is the heater core, but here is why...

Over the past few weeks, I have been able to replicate virtually this same pattern:

1. Start up car, running AC to circulate the newly filled R12 and verify no leaks. Pretty sure it is working as it should, gets cold. Usually leaving it on cold.
2. When this happens, engine usually runs smooth, no water from exhaust.
3. After a half hour or so.. small amount of water from exhaust. ??
4. Shut off car, let it sit a short time, may or may not be doing this upon start-up.
*The water is coming from the exhaust, not from the AC drip tube near the front of and under the car. Always 80, 90 degree days, probably 100 or more sometimes in the garage.
5. If I let the heater go to full hot by sliding it, and letting it run, there is MUCH more water out of the exhaust. Sort of a lot. Puddle.
6. Heat can vary from blowing hot to blowing warm, depending on how much water or coolant I drained from cooling system. I have it as 100% water at this time. Can't really do a plain old flush.. Homeowners association and all. Where I used to live we would just do whatever we want..
7. It's a pretty big difference in the amount of water. From none to a decent size puddle.
8. It is always nice, clear, clean water, no more black soot from the residual in the exhaust. I am actually worried about the straight water causing rust now. Been in there a couple of months.

And, when I turn the car off, most of the time it turns off smooth; when there is a lot of water coming out, it sounds like a muffled "hand fast over a can" sound, hollow, from the exhaust. So weird.

I can usually replicate the above.. now, here is what doesn't make sense about why it probably isn't Head Gasket:

1. No oil on coolant cap. (There was some, from when I was doing the piston soaks, some MMO got in the coolant, maybe that is a clue, but now with plain water there is not any in there. No more oily residue)
2. No mustard or mayo on oil cap.
3. No bubbles when running the engine with cap off, nor steam. Verified this at least three times.

It is more or less acting almost exactly like an old Nissan 240 I had was acting.. would run REALLY WELL with AC on (AC fan on,) not so good when the AC was off. Tiny bubbles in the overflow tank. My mechanic told me what the tiny bubbles meant. Got a new head and new head gasket on that car and it seemed to have fixed it. Never got to use it long enough to really know.

That is why I think there maybe is a crack somewhere.. but, why does it do it so much more then the heater core is engaged? I see no puddles inside the car, so, heater core.. what's up?

Okay, postulate your theories. I also should buy the Block Sniffer thing.. to know for sure, where the liquid changes color.. but, what are your thoughts? My compression numbers were also very good...
 

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So are you actually losing water from the cooling system? I think that's the big question here.



The combustion produces water, so some water in the exhaust is expected, especially on a car that has been sitting. Are you talking about a puddle from a cup of water, or a few gallons?
 

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Seems weird the water would increase with the heater on. The exhaust should make some condensation which would be a mist with some larger droplets, but not like a trickle.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Indeed.

Let me see if I can help out a little because this is confusing me, and I hope I am wrong, ... of COURSE I don't want a crack somewhere !!!

Car runs totally fine and there is never any SMOKE so. It's just water in the cooling system, so. I don't know that I see a loss in the amount of coolant/water (water) ...

Maybe this is the ideal "block sniffer" test. I should YouTube this. Recreating it always hurts because the car runs perfect sometimes, no water at all.

Here is from when I moved it back and forth about 6 feet and let it run 3-5 minutes one day. I forget if I had the heater on or not but. It's BAD when i have the heater control slid all the way over to HOT. (I have no idea what is going on)

 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
So are you actually losing water from the cooling system? I think that's the big question here.



The combustion produces water, so some water in the exhaust is expected, especially on a car that has been sitting. Are you talking about a puddle from a cup of water, or a few gallons?
Well. Though that puddle looks huge, that is a hard concrete floor, a few gallons would coat the entire floor with water and if its a LOT of water it takes almost a full day in the heat to evaporate (in less than hot weather, who knows. But it's summer here in a closed garage with no ventilation. Hot.) So what you are seeing is not "gallons." Still seems like a lot....... and sometimes, it doesn't drip at all. It's WEIRD.

This truly could be that... it's been sitting for 2-3 months in a garage that is like 90-100 degrees all summer.... so, if its just sitting in the pipes.. I am still a little bit of an idiot on condensation.

Cat SHOULD BE clean, WAS clean.. MAY HAVE gotten gummed up from the "Fuel Wash" of when the distributor and starter went out (at the same time.) . as documented back through April.. so that would explain the black sooty stuff coming out with the water, steam in exhaust cleaning out the carbon and carbonized black burnt gummed fuel, there can't be much left and that's just the surface stuff remaining.. And running with the AC on produces MORE heat.. it seems like a LOT of water, but then again the levels are not going down..

Let me hit that checklist real quick.

Coolant (straight water) NOT going down
NO small bubbles..
... NO bubbles at all..
No blown signs..
Might be somewhere. I thought I saw Red MMO in the coolant (it turns into droplets?) in the cooling system after my piston soaks.. really not sure how that happened. Though that is what I *think* it was. Now that stuff has long been burned off but... hmmm....

As to the AMOUNT of water.. and it is all clean water at this point, no oil and no fuel (no smell and no oily film, I check every puddle and there is no gas leak..) if it is along the whole length of the exhaust, that could explain the amount. But it would be NICE if there was a way for THAT MUCH water to get into the exhaust without coming from the engine.....

Could a CAT being HOT really make THAT much condense ? (was brand new as of last year. Been through a lot of abuse. This car had its exhaust system 100% replaced for $1200 in 2018. Late 2017 or 2018 though I want to say Early 2018.)
 

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Your heating system -- do you have a water valve on the heater inlet hose in the engine compartment, one that's opened and closed via what I'll call a bicycle brake control, a stationary outer wrap and a moving inner wire (moved by the control on the dash) to an arm on the valve?

If you don't, then your heater control moves a blend door inside the plenum in the dash. In that kind of system, the same amount of hot water goes through the heater core whether set to cold or hot or anywhere in between. The control on the dash just moves a blend door to mix more or less hot air from across the heater core.

EDIT: I didn't see your post after the one with the video until I posted the above.

You don't have to add coolant, and the coolant is just water?

I'd say add antifreeze to the coolant, 50-50. That would tell you pretty quick if it's coolant leaking into the exhaust somehow.

There's a hydrocarbon sniffer test for which most auto part stores will loan you the fixture if you buy the special disclosing fluid. The setup looks like this:

That will tell you if any combustion gases are leaking into the coolant.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Your heating system -- do you have a water valve on the heater inlet hose in the engine compartment, one that's opened and closed via what I'll call a bicycle brake control, a stationary outer wrap and a moving inner wire (moved by the control on the dash) to an arm on the valve?

If you don't, then your heater control moves a blend door inside the plenum in the dash. In that kind of system, the same amount of hot water goes through the heater core whether set to cold or hot or anywhere in between. The control on the dash just moves a blend door to mix more or less hot air from across the heater core.

EDIT: I didn't see your post after the one with the video until I posted the above.

You don't have to add coolant, and the coolant is just water?

I'd say add antifreeze to the coolant, 50-50. That would tell you pretty quick if it's coolant leaking into the exhaust somehow.

There's a hydrocarbon sniffer test for which most auto part stores will loan you the fixture if you buy the special disclosing fluid. The setup looks like this: https://www.amazon.com/Block-Tester-BT-500-Combustion-Leak/dp/B06VVBSFTF/ref=asc_df_B06VVBSFTF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312177448019&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=303380141539489348&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001853&hvtargid=pla-570352767565&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=61495038909&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312177448019&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=303380141539489348&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001853&hvtargid=pla-570352767565

That will tell you if any combustion gases are leaking into the coolant.
Him OleAvalon! Also, I had a 1996 Avalon once. A 96 or a 97. Nice car. Would buy again.

Let me see.. you ask about the heater valve. I'll look when I get home and take a pic, but the switch from the dash seems to slide a piece on the outside of a hose. I'll take a picture.

I don't need to add any coolant, the water level wasn't going down. I presently have all water in there, this by me siphoning out whatever mix was in there and replacing with just water. (I know, I know.. "TAKE OFF THE LOWER HOSE!" well.. 1. The lower hose seems hard to get to. 2. The upper hose, only gets out so much. 3. I seem to have good pressure, NOT OVERPRESSURIZED so..) -- SO, if there was sealer to be used.. if I even have an issue. !!!!!

The hydrocarbon sniffer may be good for this. It SOUNDS LIKE it may be just "all condensation." If so.. yeah, maybe I have the ideal situation for that. Loads and loads of heat, NOWHERE for it to go, if that turns into water then MAYBE.. I always thought condensation was a nice slow "drip," and engine troubles, whatever they may be, have the little drops being pushed out rapidly and blown around by exhaust gases with the farting noise as I sometimes think I am seeing.

True, a trip around and driving would say more, and I wonder how much of this is residual from the 70 or so-mile trip with the Fuel Wash and the bad timing. (Distributor timing, not engine timing. My timing is advanced now.)

So. I don't have to add coolant, BECAUSE the coolant is presently just water. If I added coolant and began to see smoke, that would tell me if there is a leak too...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Really hoping it is not "Oil to coolant" like I'm thinking.

Or, if it is and the leak is small.........

 

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Run car for an hour. Idle 10-15 min to warm up. Then hold 3000rpms for a while, then 2500, then 3500, 4000, 2500. Simulate driving around randomly. Still spewing water after this hour?

Do compression test. What are the numbers?
 

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From what I am seeing that is all normal. I have seen you state the coolant level in the radiator is not going down?

This so far all looks very very normal. The basic basic chemical reaction of burning is H20 and C02. If it burns good and clean, lots of water will be present. You can only really get water from 2 sources: Radiator/coolant and Vapor from the burning process. When the car is idle the exhaust is sloooowly moving through the exhaust. When you are revving(driving) the engine the exhaust moves much faster and moves the water out very quickly. I see nothing wrong with this so far. Looks like it's simply burning very very very very clean. And this is a good thing. Less green house gasses we don't want. Happy your car runs so good!

What's your secret to keeping it running so good?
 

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what do u mean by water? there's not supposed to b any water coming out from ur car, from the ac it's the vapor from condensation , coming out from ur tail pipe, u mean the coolant? if it's the coolant coming out from ur tail pipe, u have a leak head gasket.
 

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if u were using only water as coolant, according to the video , that's lot of water, i don't think it's normal like 93roller said. even on an early morning cold day start up, there's some water from the tail pipe cause the heat causing condensation overnight dropping down when i started my car but never that much. that is definately coming from the engine.
 

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If you don't want water in your exhaust then switch to a fuel that doesn't have hydrogen in it.

Probably the higher summer humidity air being drawn in plus the normal water produced in combustion makes it seem like more than usual.

Don't worry about it until you take it out on a drive.
 

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I would check behind your engine block, under the intake manifold. There is a hose connected to the water pump that often times leaks like a son of a bitch, and could be dripping in through the flex pipe. it's a long shot that this would happen but its not impossible.
 

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Hell these cars practically run on "zebras" so i wouldn't be surprised at all if this kind of dumb stuff was happening.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hell these cars practically run on "zebras" so i wouldn't be surprised at all if this kind of dumb stuff was happening.
Hi, I don't quite know what you mean by "run on zebras" ? But, some excellent replies in this thread and I thought I would give an update to this dying forum.

So. So far, I've been observing it and even taking it on some short drives... also, using some more unconventional means of 1. Do I have a leak 2. If I have a leak, where is it.

So, I believe I have.. Cylinders #1 and #3, now Cylinder #3 sealed and Cylinder #1 either 90 or 100% sealed.

How? Well...

Before the new plugs, and after regular observance of water water water out of the tailpipe after 5 minutes (with repeatable, predictable results, not like condensation water,) so, in the search and pursuit of sealing it without knowing where the leak or water came from, I would pull all the plugs after the car was off. And I always noticed Cylinders #1 and 3 with "steam" coming out, and hotter plugs. So I decided that my leak was from one of these two cylinders.

The other day, I let it run for an hour and a half without the plugs in or fuel injection on Cylinders #1 and 3.. only #2 and 4. It will idle smooth with one plug out. With two, it eventually surges but my compression is so good that it can. Well, Cylinder #3 sealed up in this way. And there was NO water out of the tailpipe when doing that. None. Not a drop!

I did so again over the weekend, was interrupted, let it sit a half hour, put all plugs in, took it on a short 5-minute drive very gently, (the kind where you are afraid to step on the gas) and let it sit overnight with the Cylinder 1 plug out and it SEEMS sealed.

I'm letting it sit longer, but. Hopefully it can hold.

I've also been adding antifreeze, there is SOME in there now, the cooling system capacity on these cars is really small so I'll say about 25% antifreeze. I am convinced it runs better with some antifreeze in there than straight water. Winter will be here soon.. probably wont get below zero. And I'm that guy that has to start his car at 2AM or 3AM. From work. So aside from somehow getting all the coolant out, it is either staying how it is or some more gets added in, the capacity seems to be less than a gallon.....
 

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Discussion Starter #20
So! My secrets to "how did I get it to run so clean!?" Well.. I did about 10-12 piston soaks in a row, usually for a few days to a week, plus extensive intake/water/steam cleaning.

As discussed before, I also was under the impression that doing this could NOT blow anything, and I am likely fighting an old leak, stopped up with what looks like K-Seal by previous owner, that my gradual coolant maintenance maybe made re-appear? Now I'm sealing it with Blue Devil, for a few reasons.

Car runs well, let's see if that holds..
 
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