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Partial Throttle Boost AFR

I am also posting this in my turbo build thread.

Hey Jim!

I've been looking into a way to adjust my part throttle, low boost AFR. Because our cars are in closed loop until the throttle is basically maxed out, our AFRs stay close to stoich in partial boost. I've read wildly conflicting opinions on this. Some say that stoich AFR is fine under low boost partial throttle as there is less load on the engine and therefore less chance of detonation. Others say that it's a must to enrich the AFR under even minimal boost and low TPS. Basically at cruise - on a long hill for example, I see ~14.5 - 14.7 AFR at partial throttle and, say, anywhere from 1 - 4 psi if I'm accelerating under moderate throttle.

There is no configured O2 map in the tune that I am aware of. Although the F/IC has the capability, apparently, the O2 spoofing function didn't work consistently across the cars that were tested and because of this a completed map wasn't included, afaik. I don't know if your tuner actually did any O2 mapping and if you're seeing the same AFRs as I am at partial throttle, low boost. I would assume that the Booslang harness is actually wired to include the connection to the AFR sensor. Do you have an O2 map with any numbers in the cells other than zeros? If you are seeing what I'm seeing in terms of part throttle AFRs, you've been driving your car for a long time with seemingly no issues.

Any chance you could have someone capture a quick video of your 1) part throttle, low boost AFRs? If you can't video it, could you tell me what your seeing under these conditions? Also, 2) what AFR are you getting at cruise under low boost - say going up a hill with enough throttle to get you into mild boost?

My car seems to richen up nicely at close to max throttle - maybe slightly less that all the way to the floor. Then I get great AFRs on the order of 12ish, low boost, then 11.5 at full throttle and boost. I plan to pursue spoofing the O2 signal but it will be a steep learning curve.

Thanks!
 

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I'll be picking up my parts tomorrow for the oil filter conversion. I got some of my oil cooler parts in today!
Such a cool case the thermostatic sandwich plate came in.




The oil cooler.


This shows the size of it.
Were you able to make the Mishimoto thermostatic adapter plate to work on the new spin on filter housing, or did you have to move it to a remote filter location? I’ve read of fitment issues. If so I might just plumb off the stock filter housing plugs, to a remote filter mount where the plate has more room. I believe this plumbing would bypass the stock filter. Just not sure if I can get fittings in where those plugs are that won’t hang down in harms way.
What did you end up doing here?
 

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Diehard Rams Fan
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Discussion Starter #223
Were you able to make the Mishimoto thermostatic adapter plate to work on the new spin on filter housing, or did you have to move it to a remote filter location? I’ve read of fitment issues. If so I might just plumb off the stock filter housing plugs, to a remote filter mount where the plate has more room. I believe this plumbing would bypass the stock filter. Just not sure if I can get fittings in where those plugs are that won’t hang down in harms way.
What did you end up doing here?
I tried using the fittings they came with but couldn't make that work. I'm going to try again with AN fittings after using them for my oil catch can install. If I can't make that work I'll use the Mishimoto in-line thermostatic control and a stand sandwich plate that is smaller. I haven't given up on making my oil cooler work. :)
 

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I tried using the fittings they came with but couldn't make that work. I'm going to try again with AN fittings after using them for my oil catch can install. If I can't make that work I'll use the Mishimoto in-line thermostatic control and a stand sandwich plate that is smaller. I haven't given up on making my oil cooler work. :)
I came across some banjo fittings that I think I’m using off the plugged ports of the stock housing. They might give you the adjustability and clearance to work. Now I’m looking at the options for a filter relocation housing with internal thermal control for the cooler.
 

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I tried using the fittings they came with but couldn't make that work. I'm going to try again with AN fittings after using them for my oil catch can install. If I can't make that work I'll use the Mishimoto in-line thermostatic control and a stand sandwich plate that is smaller. I haven't given up on making my oil cooler work. :)
Are you finding your oil temps high, Jim or is it just for extra protection? I'm not experiencing any issues and the highest I've seen mine is around 220 on a hot day with steady high speed cruising and boost in the mix. Even around town with some boosting, the temps are very reasonable. That said, I suppose, the cooler the oil entering the turbo, the better, above a certain point of course.
 

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Diehard Rams Fan
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Discussion Starter #226
Are you finding your oil temps high, Jim or is it just for extra protection? I'm not experiencing any issues and the highest I've seen mine is around 220 on a hot day with steady high speed cruising and boost in the mix. Even around town with some boosting, the temps are very reasonable. That said, I suppose, the cooler the oil entering the turbo, the better, above a certain point of course.
I don't have an oil temp gauge yet so I was just wanting to do it for longevity. That being said I will be changing my oil every year or 5k miles. Good to know that you are seeing good temps. I still want to do it so I'll try again at some point.
 

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Are you finding your oil temps high, Jim or is it just for extra protection? I'm not experiencing any issues and the highest I've seen mine is around 220 on a hot day with steady high speed cruising and boost in the mix. Even around town with some boosting, the temps are very reasonable. That said, I suppose, the cooler the oil entering the turbo, the better, above a certain point of course.
I figured the turbo is going to add some heat, the intercooler blocks a small percentage of the radiators cool air, and I wanted a bigger filter. I know the oil cooler will also block some of the radiator. I’ll add another fan if needed, but it doesn’t sound like it from what I read in this thread.
Although I’m not cracked up about the layout and mount, I think I’m going with the Greddy remote filter mount with internal thermostat.
 

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I don't have an oil temp gauge yet so I was just wanting to do it for longevity. That being said I will be changing my oil every year or 5k miles. Good to know that you are seeing good temps. I still want to do it so I'll try again at some point.
Right, I forgot you don't have an oil temp gauge. I'm guessing you're running a synthetic. I stocked up on about 6 jugs of SuperTech full synthetic as it's on rollback for $14.37 at Wally World. It's a fantastic oil according to UOAs. My oil sensor is positioned right below the turbo drain so should be a good indication of overall temps, though I expect it will peak in temp in the turbo cartridge.

Are you still up for doing some basic data collection? My car gets put away before the first snowfall, so time is becoming limited. It would be cool to document AFRs, oil pressures and a few other variables that we can both monitor. I'd also be interested the tables in your cal file - fueling and timing specifically.
 

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Discussion Starter #229
Right, I forgot you don't have an oil temp gauge. I'm guessing you're running a synthetic. I stocked up on about 6 jugs of SuperTech full synthetic as it's on rollback for $14.37 at Wally World. It's a fantastic oil according to UOAs. My oil sensor is positioned right below the turbo drain so should be a good indication of overall temps, though I expect it will peak in temp in the turbo cartridge.

Are you still up for doing some basic data collection? My car gets put away before the first snowfall, so time is becoming limited. It would be cool to document AFRs, oil pressures and a few other variables that we can both monitor. I'd also be interested the tables in your cal file - fueling and timing specifically.
I've always run synthetic oil. Normally I use Mobil 1 or Toyota Synthetic. I was thinking about picking up some of the SuperTech synthetic oil as I've heard good things about it. Last spring I changed my oil with LiquiMoly 5W-30. I figured that the 5w would still be okay compared to the normal 0w I'd always used. The 30 side of it would be better for the higher heat from the turbo.

I'm still up to do the other stuff. I have no clue of what I'm doing when it comes to it though. That's why I had a tuner do mine tuning. :unsure:
 

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Hey, this is out of sequence, but related to both yours and 06YarisRS build threads. I’ve figured out the oil filter and cooler for my car. Now I’m researching engine monitoring and gauges.
Both of you have experience with some different setups. I’m leaning toward a smaller setup.

06YarisRS, what were the issues with the Torque system/display you have in dash, that you went to individual gauges?

SuperchargedMR2, you started with AEM Gauges. As I recall, it was aesthetics that you weren’t happy with. Were there any other issues? Do you still have the AEM set 😀.

Do either of you know anything about the Banks iDash 1.8 super gauge?
I think Banks is most popular with diesel now, but they were pioneers in turbocharging some time ago.
This thing is pretty trick, if it works as advertised. It’s digital, but it displays up to 5 readings at a time, on a single 52mm face.
I’m not cracked up about the look, but if it does what it says, function may trump appearance.
 

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Hey, this is out of sequence, but related to both yours and 06YarisRS build threads. I’ve figured out the oil filter and cooler for my car. Now I’m researching engine monitoring and gauges.
Both of you have experience with some different setups. I’m leaning toward a smaller setup.

06YarisRS, what were the issues with the Torque system/display you have in dash, that you went to individual gauges?

SuperchargedMR2, you started with AEM Gauges. As I recall, it was aesthetics that you weren’t happy with. Were there any other issues? Do you still have the AEM set 😀.

Do either of you know anything about the Banks iDash 1.8 super gauge?
I think Banks is most popular with diesel now, but they were pioneers in turbocharging some time ago.
This thing is pretty trick, if it works as advertised. It’s digital, but it displays up to 5 readings at a time, on a single 52mm face.
I’m not cracked up about the look, but if it does what it says, function may trump appearance.
Initially I thought that Torque's responses were too slow, specifically the AFR response time. I am beginning to think that it is accurate. But this was before I realized that the AFR was not enriching because I wasn't actually in open loop by flooring the gas pedal. One thing though that I haven't been able to get Torque to do is accurately display boost pressure. It doesn't seem to want to display anything above zero vacuum. Since Torque works through OBD2, there is no actual direct connection to the vacuum lines to measure boost. Finally, although Torque will display oil and trans temps on my Kia van, it won't in my Yaris. This is why I went with direct data access through dedicated gauges.

I don't know anything about the iDash gauge setup to which you refer, but I'm intrigued and will have s look.
 

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Initially I thought that Torque's responses were too slow, specifically the AFR response time. I am beginning to think that it is accurate. But this was before I realized that the AFR was not enriching because I wasn't actually in open loop by flooring the gas pedal. One thing though that I haven't been able to get Torque to do is accurately display boost pressure. It doesn't seem to want to display anything above zero vacuum. Since Torque works through OBD2, there is no actual direct connection to the vacuum lines to measure boost. Finally, although Torque will display oil and trans temps on my Kia van, it won't in my Yaris. This is why I went with direct data access through dedicated gauges.

I don't know anything about the iDash gauge setup to which you refer, but I'm intrigued and will have s look.
Thanks for the reply, that is valuable info. It sounds like Torque and iDash are similar in that they gather data through ODB2 and can only display what is available from the ECU.
The iDash has additional sensors that can be used if the ecu doesn’t provide the info. Banks also says it works with many third party EMS’s, including AEM, maybe it will play nicely with the F/IC.
I’m not sure it’s my answer, but I would love to have everything I want to see in one small display.
 

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Thanks for the reply, that is valuable info. It sounds like Torque and iDash are similar in that they gather data through ODB2 and can only display what is available from the ECU.
The iDash has additional sensors that can be used if the ecu doesn’t provide the info. Banks also says it works with many third party EMS’s, including AEM, maybe it will play nicely with the F/IC.
I’m not sure it’s my answer, but I would love to have everything I want to see in one small display.
I had a look at the iDash and it appears to be one sweet piece of hardware. Had I known about it earlier, it definitely would have been a contender on my list. In weeks of internet scouring about gauges, multigauge displays etc, I did not uncover it at all. Either my internet searching techniques are subpar, or Banks needs to up their metatag game, LOL. It offers OBD 2 data that the specific ECU will release, and other data sets can be gained by the external sensors, as you say. The gauge faces appear to be fully customizable, so grouping by data sets is a great feature. The only drawback, for me, would be the visibility of the data due to the size. That said, the font they use is very bold, the resolution and contrast are excellent. From a cost comparison standpoint between it and Torque, I think that its usefulness would be determined by the number and types of PIDS the specific vehicle's ECU will make available. For example, if you could get all the data you wanted from your ECU without the need for external sensors, Torque Pro (and a screen to display it, such as an android based system, or even a smart phone), Torque would be a more affordable option, plus a larger, more readable and configurable display with different gauge type selections. If sensors are needed in any given application, with the iDash, no additional gauges would need to be mounted, so no need for additional cutting, customization or multiple, ugly gauge pods. Banks does mention compatibility with standalone ECUs, but nothing about piggybacks, so, another area of investigation would be good there.

Wow...thanks for bringing this to our attention. I only wish I'd been able to find out about it before I cut my dashboard all up. LOL!

Here's a video I found:

BanksPower iDash
 

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I had a look at the iDash and it appears to be one sweet piece of hardware. Had I known about it earlier, it definitely would have been a contender on my list. In weeks of internet scouring about gauges, multigauge displays etc, I did not uncover it at all. Either my internet searching techniques are subpar, or Banks needs to up their metatag game, LOL. It offers OBD 2 data that the specific ECU will release, and other data sets can be gained by the external sensors, as you say. The gauge faces appear to be fully customizable, so grouping by data sets is a great feature. The only drawback, for me, would be the visibility of the data due to the size. That said, the font they use is very bold, the resolution and contrast are excellent. From a cost comparison standpoint between it and Torque, I think that its usefulness would be determined by the number and types of PIDS the specific vehicle's ECU will make available. For example, if you could get all the data you wanted from your ECU without the need for external sensors, Torque Pro (and a screen to display it, such as an android based system, or even a smart phone), Torque would be a more affordable option, plus a larger, more readable and configurable display with different gauge type selections. If sensors are needed in any given application, with the iDash, no additional gauges would need to be mounted, so no need for additional cutting, customization or multiple, ugly gauge pods. Banks does mention compatibility with standalone ECUs, but nothing about piggybacks, so, another area of investigation would be good there.

Wow...thanks for bringing this to our attention. I only wish I'd been able to find out about it before I cut my dashboard all up. LOL!

Here's a video I found:

BanksPower iDash
I had a look at the iDash and it appears to be one sweet piece of hardware. Had I known about it earlier, it definitely would have been a contender on my list. In weeks of internet scouring about gauges, multigauge displays etc, I did not uncover it at all. Either my internet searching techniques are subpar, or Banks needs to up their metatag game, LOL. It offers OBD 2 data that the specific ECU will release, and other data sets can be gained by the external sensors, as you say. The gauge faces appear to be fully customizable, so grouping by data sets is a great feature. The only drawback, for me, would be the visibility of the data due to the size. That said, the font they use is very bold, the resolution and contrast are excellent. From a cost comparison standpoint between it and Torque, I think that its usefulness would be determined by the number and types of PIDS the specific vehicle's ECU will make available. For example, if you could get all the data you wanted from your ECU without the need for external sensors, Torque Pro (and a screen to display it, such as an android based system, or even a smart phone), Torque would be a more affordable option, plus a larger, more readable and configurable display with different gauge type selections. If sensors are needed in any given application, with the iDash, no additional gauges would need to be mounted, so no need for additional cutting, customization or multiple, ugly gauge pods. Banks does mention compatibility with standalone ECUs, but nothing about piggybacks, so, another area of investigation would be good there.

Wow...thanks for bringing this to our attention. I only wish I'd been able to find out about it before I cut my dashboard all up. LOL!

Here's a video I found:

BanksPower iDash
I saw that (and some others) video. It looks pretty impressive in features. I definitely need to make sure it will interpret and display AEM’s F/IC Data. Also need to find out what it will receive from the ECU. Here’s a link to the parameters it gets from a ‘13 Scion FR-S. It was the closest example to our cars that I saw


I’ll be digging into this more and share my findings.
 

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I saw that (and some others) video. It looks pretty impressive in features. I definitely need to make sure it will interpret and display AEM’s F/IC Data. Also need to find out what it will receive from the ECU. Here’s a link to the parameters it gets from a ‘13 Scion FR-S. It was the closest example to our cars that I saw


I’ll be digging into this more and share my findings.
Here are parameters for a ‘13 RAV4 2.5l. I suspect our parameters would be similar.

You may have seen the iDash DataMonster too. Massive data logging, Dble the samples per second, and up to 8 readings displayed. I wish it worked for OBD1 as well. I would buy now and run it on my B5 S4, until I build the Rolla.
 

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Here are parameters for a ‘13 RAV4 2.5l. I suspect our parameters would be similar.

You may have seen the iDash DataMonster too. Massive data logging, Dble the samples per second, and up to 8 readings displayed. I wish it worked for OBD1 as well. I would buy now and run it on my B5 S4, until I build the Rolla.
Yes, I did see the DataMonster. Very impressive. Between Torque and the F/IC, there's lots of data-logging capability. What I've found - in my limited exposure to Toyota products - is that the ECUs don't give up much. I haven't checked out you links yet, but will shortly. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, LOL. My Kia Sedona's ECU is MUCH more generous. I think these gauges are fantastic, a great find there on your part! I really think I might have gone with the iDash had I been aware of it. I may have missed your plans. Are you turbo-ing a later model Corolla? In my experience - again somewhat limited - I would consider a standalone ECU over the F/IC if for no other reason than the ability to control fueling under closed loop operations.
 

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Yes, I did see the DataMonster. Very impressive. Between Torque and the F/IC, there's lots of data-logging capability. What I've found - in my limited exposure to Toyota products - is that the ECUs don't give up much. I haven't checked out you links yet, but will shortly. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, LOL. My Kia Sedona's ECU is MUCH more generous. I think these gauges are fantastic, a great find there on your part! I really think I might have gone with the iDash had I been aware of it. I may have missed your plans. Are you turbo-ing a later model Corolla? In my experience - again somewhat limited - I would consider a standalone ECU over the F/IC if for no other reason than the ability to control fueling under closed loop operations.
yes, I have an 09 corolla s 5mt. Bought it new in 3/08. Looked at boost options for a couple yrs then dropped it because nothing was coming to market. I picked up the S4 in ‘11. It‘s my first turbo car and i love that feeling. A few weeks ago I perusing eBay and ran across a TKC kit for the ‘09 corolla and started looking around and ran into these two build threads, which are top notch, and in line with what I want to do. Sadly I missed out on the eBay kit, but the flame is burning strong, hence all the presearch on support systems. I want a reliable daily driver when I’m done, like I have now.
 

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Diehard Rams Fan
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Discussion Starter #238
Hey, this is out of sequence, but related to both yours and 06YarisRS build threads. I’ve figured out the oil filter and cooler for my car. Now I’m researching engine monitoring and gauges.
Both of you have experience with some different setups. I’m leaning toward a smaller setup.

06YarisRS, what were the issues with the Torque system/display you have in dash, that you went to individual gauges?

SuperchargedMR2, you started with AEM Gauges. As I recall, it was aesthetics that you weren’t happy with. Were there any other issues? Do you still have the AEM set 😀.

Do either of you know anything about the Banks iDash 1.8 super gauge?
I think Banks is most popular with diesel now, but they were pioneers in turbocharging some time ago.
This thing is pretty trick, if it works as advertised. It’s digital, but it displays up to 5 readings at a time, on a single 52mm face.
I’m not cracked up about the look, but if it does what it says, function may trump appearance.
Exactly, I liked the gauges but I didn't like that they didn't have a needle and used an LED light around the rim. They worked just fine. And yes, I do still have them. I was going to list them on eBay but just haven't yet.

I've never used or looked at the iDash set up.
 

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Diehard Rams Fan
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Discussion Starter #239
yes, I have an 09 corolla s 5mt. Bought it new in 3/08. Looked at boost options for a couple yrs then dropped it because nothing was coming to market. I picked up the S4 in ‘11. It‘s my first turbo car and i love that feeling. A few weeks ago I perusing eBay and ran across a TKC kit for the ‘09 corolla and started looking around and ran into these two build threads, which are top notch, and in line with what I want to do. Sadly I missed out on the eBay kit, but the flame is burning strong, hence all the presearch on support systems. I want a reliable daily driver when I’m done, like I have now.
The turbo kit from TKC is an amazing kit and so well designed. For you, it will fit great as it did me since it was designed for our car. So far it has been everything I was looking for producing more power while maintaining the reliability that I love.
 

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Exactly, I liked the gauges but I didn't like that they didn't have a needle and used an LED light around the rim. They worked just fine. And yes, I do still have them. I was going to list them on eBay but just haven't yet.

I've never used or looked at the iDash set up.
Thanks for the info. I’ll have to take another look at the AEM set, and see what I think. What exactly do you have, and what would you let them go for? I may be interested.
The turbo kit from TKC is an amazing kit and so well designed. For you, it will fit great as it did me since it was designed for our car. So far it has been everything I was looking for producing more power while maintaining the reliability that I love.
Between ’09 and ‘13 I dreamt about a boost setup this clean and reliable. Other than the eBay stuff there wasn’t anything. Aside from the awesome kit TKC put together, engine management and control products have come a long way as well, taking the guess work out, and bringing the previously unknown to light. This is going to be a fun project.
 
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