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Tapping Noise From Engine

429 Views 22 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  BillDurham
Tapping noise coming from engine. 5SFE. There was also some oil smoke from the exhaust pipe but has since went away (not sure what that was from). 160 PSI on all cylinders hot and cold. 110k on the odometer.
Mechanic said it wasn’t a valve problem. Am I looking at piston problems? Anyone have ideas? Can EGR/PCV valve make a noise that loud?

trying to avoid having to remove the cylinder head at all costs.
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"Tapping" is very vague.......but it COULD, if you are lucky, be a crack in your exhaust manifold or exhaust joint possibly causing a loud ticking noise.

"also some oil smoke from the exhaust pipe" could also suggest a leak in the exhaust somewhere unless oil is dripping from say the valve cover.
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My bad. Meant to link the video. Here is the sound.
link
oh man....that sounds bad....

Im leaning towards possible rod knock. it sounds a bit lower pitched to me,...valve would usually be higher pitched....

the mechanic couldnt diagnose it?


Make sure exhaust is all tight / plugs are not loose... had a loose plug that made a compression leak that sounded just like rod knock.
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oh man....that sounds bad....

Im leaning towards possible rod knock. it sounds a bit lower pitched to me,...valve would usually be higher pitched....

the mechanic couldnt diagnose it?


Make sure exhaust is all tight / plugs are not loose... had a loose plug that made a compression leak that sounded just like rod knock.
Been driving on it for over a year with no perceivable issues other than the sound itself. Sound goes away when it rains which is really weird. I’ll take off the heat shield and take a look at the exhaust manifold.
You could have some kind of exhaust leak at the manifold, and when it gets cooler, heat expansion changes etc.. causing the crack to close up.


if the noise gets louder with the shield off, you probably have some kind of a leak. Possibly at the head to manifold gasket.
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I would get a mechanics stethoscope and listen at the valve cover, the head, the block, and the oil pan. I agree that to me, it sounds like a piston rod journal bearing was spun so there is a pounding on the crankshaft journal every time the piston changes direction. But a way to verify is with such a mechanics stethoscope.
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160 PSI on all cylinders hot and cold. 110k on the odometer.
Since your compression #'s are all consistent and do not change dry vs. wet - I would verify mechanical timing marks (crank, cam, pull #1 spark plug and insert dowel or thin-blade screwdriver to watch rise/fall to confirm mechanical #1 TDC ... before condemning the motor.

How many years / miles on the timing belt?
Been driving on it for over a year with no perceivable issues other than the sound itself. Sound goes away when it rains which is really weird. I’ll take off the heat shield and take a look at the exhaust manifold.
There is an exhaust donut between the exhaust manifold / primary cat converter <-> and the front pipe: to access the donut, you will need to drop the front pipe off the exhaust manifold from underneath. re: sound goes away during rain: that may indicate a failing flex pipe, which is part of the front pipe assembly, visible from underneath.

Agree w/ 1990toyota, the noise sounds like it could be exhaust: if no driveability or other issues, I'd check the exhaust manifold, exhaust donut, and front pipe first, if it was here.
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My bad. Meant to link the video. Here is the sound.
link


The fact he said that it magically goes away when it rains etc... makes me have hope its just a really bad ticking exhaust!
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There is an exhaust donut between the exhaust manifold / primary cat converter <-> and the front pipe: to access the donut, you will need to drop the front pipe off the exhaust manifold from underneath. re: sound goes away during rain: that may indicate a failing flex pipe, which is part of the front pipe assembly, visible from underneath.

Agree w/ 1990toyota, the noise sounds like it could be exhaust: if no driveability or other issues, I'd check the exhaust manifold, exhaust donut, and front pipe first, if it was here.
Not the Flex pipe. There was an exhaust leak at the flex pipe last year and I put in a new flex pipe. Ticking noise hasn’t changed during any of it. I’ll check the donut and the manifold.
oh man....that sounds bad....

Im leaning towards possible rod knock. it sounds a bit lower pitched to me,...valve would usually be higher pitched....

the mechanic couldnt diagnose it?


Make sure exhaust is all tight / plugs are not loose... had a loose plug that made a compression leak that sounded just like rod knock.
Took it to a mechanic a year ago and he said he “didn’t notice the sound while taking it for a test drive” and “the valves look fine”. Retorqued the plugs before the video was taken
I would get a mechanics stethoscope and listen at the valve cover, the head, the block, and the oil pan. I agree that to me, it sounds like a piston rod journal bearing was spun so there is a pounding on the crankshaft journal every time the piston changes direction. But a way to verify is with such a mechanics stethoscope.
If it was a spun bearing, would there be other symptoms? I’ve been driving on it for over a year and it hasn’t got noticeably worse.
Another bit of info that might be unrelated: car sat for a few days, cranked but didn’t start on the first try. Started on second key turn with trouble and send some burnt oil out of the exhaust pipe for a few seconds. To me with my basic knowledge, that screams valve stem seal problems. Any thoughts?
I would get a mechanics stethoscope and listen at the valve cover, the head, the block, and the oil pan. I agree that to me, it sounds like a piston rod journal bearing was spun so there is a pounding on the crankshaft journal every time the piston changes direction. But a way to verify is with such a mechanics stethoscope.
Spun bearing would sound worst at the head? Or at the oil pan?
Also worth noting that there are times when the sound seemingly goes away or changes in tone. Even when the car is just sitting at idle. The tapping noise in the video would stop every few seconds before picking back up. When I first started the car after it had been sitting for 3 months, there was no tapping at all until about 5 minutes after start. I don’t think it was due to parts warming up though because it still makes the noise on startup after sitting for 2 days. Noise is much higher pitched and fainter than the video when revving.
Another bit of info that might be unrelated: car sat for a few days, cranked but didn’t start on the first try. Started on second key turn with trouble and send some burnt oil out of the exhaust pipe for a few seconds. To me with my basic knowledge, that screams valve stem seal problems. Any thoughts?
Yes, this symptom would seem to point first towards valve stem seals leaking. Wouldn't have anything to do with the ticking noise you are hearing.

A spun rod bearing would make the sound you are hearing (at least as good as your recorded sound back to us seems like - recorded sound is never the same as actually being right by the car though). A spun bearing typically wouldn't last as long as yours has without getting worse are causing lower oil pressures. But I only brought this up based on what I heard. Getting a mechanics stethoscope will help you a lot to know better where the source of the noise is coming from. All we can do is speculate - checking where that noise is coming from is required to help nail down the source.
Spun bearing would sound worst at the head? Or at the oil pan?
A spun rod bearing would sound loudest at the block, and to a lesser extend, the oil pan. It would not sound as loud at the head, where you would pick up more of the valve noise typical on that engine. I'm talking about the sound you would hear using a mechanic's stethoscope.
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Since your compression #'s are all consistent and do not change dry vs. wet - I would verify mechanical timing marks (crank, cam, pull #1 spark plug and insert dowel or thin-blade screwdriver to watch rise/fall to confirm mechanical #1 TDC ... before condemning the motor.

How many years / miles on the timing belt?
Timing belt has not been changed to my knowledge. Inherited the car 8 or 9 years ago. 106k on the odometer.
+1 w/ valve stem seal weep @ startup causing some exhaust smoke - get that here also: an oil/filter change and a bottle of fuel system cleaner in the tank helps keep it under control.

You state the vehicle runs & drives well, just the noise is a concern: and has been happening for awhile.



I think pulling the exhaust manifold heat shield and checking the exhaust manifold for integrity: the exhaust manifold gasket, and exhaust donut (manifold <-> front pipe) gaskets makes sense. (Especially if the flex pipe was R&R'd / replaced and the exhaust donut was not.)

A quick exhaust system check would be to have a helper place their (leather gloved) hand over the tailpipe at cold start: any exhaust leaks would be amplified, if present.

With an engine cold startup, you should be able to feel any exhaust pressure being "bled" without touching hot metal. Might take a few tries (shutting down engine, letting cool to cold, restarting) to fully check though. (* This is a check you will want to do quickly, before the exhaust starts to heat up to operating temp.)

re: 106k miles on TB and components - anything belt-driven (idler/tensioner bearings, water pump, edit: oil pump) under the timing covers, or externally (power steering pump, A/C compressor clutch, alternator) is going to sound "loud" in the engine compartment if it has any issue: and can be a daunting challenge for any DIY'er to diagnose: let alone line techs / mechanics in the field that see vehicles every day.

Can tell you from experience w/ the '00 Camry & other vehicles - that a tired / worn water pump may "make a racket" - that can mimick other engine noises.

A decent mechanic's stethoscope (OEM, Lisle) for 20-30 bucks may be a wise investment.

I've also used 24"-32" lengths of 1/2 - 3/4 inch ID heater hose, to help narrow down an area, or component.

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There may be (?) an issue internally w/ the motor, can't say / dunno / don't want to lead you "down a wrong path".

The above checks are low cost, DIY-capable, and things I would check, if here.

Hope the feedback helps.
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