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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
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I have been trying for ages to get a definitive answer as to whether or not Lotus beefed up the 2ZR for their supercharged Elise/Cup series of cars. When I started my search for information, I initially contacted Lotus USA, only to find out that the 2ZR was never used in their cars destined for this continent. The US Toyota-based Cup series used the 2ZZ Yamaha/Toyota engine.

Next, I contacted Lotus Cars (Auto Europe). Not surprisingly, they were not forthcoming with any info, citing their policy of not disclosing proprietary knowledge.

Finally, I found and joined a forum that focused on European Lotus cars. I also spoke with an outfit that does performance upgrades on the Lotus cars and communicated with an individual who owns a couple of them. The aforementioned performance outfit identified 285 BHP as a limit not to be exceeded without the consideration of more robust internals. This, of course, assumes a very good, reliable and safe tune. All nice folks over there and, after speaking with them, I am convinced that the engine that is craftily installed into the Cup series of Lotus cars is a bone stock 2ZR engine which is then supercharged (BHP ranging from 217 BHP - 250+ BHP, throughout the Cup Series 220 - 260). I asked if there had been any mods to the heads, such as upgraded valve springs and retainers, as the Lotus cars have a higher redline. The answer to that query was also a resounding "no". Of course, Lotus engineers would have written a masterpiece of software in their tune.

The reason for my interest...I want to know what sort of longevity I can expect out of my turbocharged 2ZR-powered Yaris RS. I also want to have a sense of the structural limitations as I plan to move forward with extracting a little more 'safe' power from my setup. I fully intend to switch my car from a piggyback computer to a standalone, which, despite its moniker, will actually work in tandem with my car's factory ECU.

Some of you may have already been aware of this information, but I needed to find this out for my own peace of mind.
 
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I think your 2zr will last a while. The 2zz produces reliable power as well. One issue with the 2zz is it's cost to produce power. I've looked into building up a 2zz and it costs more than the value of my car.

MWR is the supporter for the 2zz, but still charges quite a bit. The supercharger is around $7k USD. Stroke is shorter on a 2zz versus a 2zr.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think your 2zr will last a while. The 2zz produces reliable power as well. One issue with the 2zz is it's cost to produce power. I've looked into building up a 2zz and it costs more than the value of my car.

MWR is the supporter for the 2zz, but still charges quite a bit. The supercharger is around $7k USD. Stroke is shorter on a 2zz versus a 2zr.
Thanks. I didn't know about the supercharger for the 2zz. Definitely on the steep side! I've looked at MWR when considering engine items for the 2ZR. I also have a 1NZ in my garage and have been considering doing a forged build on that. I guess the 1NZ makes a great little forced induction engine.
 

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That's pretty cool. I don't know much about the 1nz. The thing about the 2zz is the 3rd cam lobe that provides the lift at 6200 rpm. This is oil pressure controlled. Have not heard of a frankie build between a 1zz, 2zz or 2zr. Though the dimensions might be close and usable. The stroke on the 2zr is longer and therefore has torque. 2zz lacks this unfortunately.


Lift is similar to vtec.
 

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the lotus engine just looks reorganised to fit in a tighter space... I see the oil filter on top, which seems like its great for easy maintenance ;) compare both without the engine beauty cover : the block and how the coils are plugged on it look the same from the top. I wouldnt be surprised if the internals of the lotus one were a bit fortified but they could be the same the engine in the lotus seems rotated 180 degree, but I think its because the picture is taken from the back? so the engine is still in the same angle, just placed in the mid-rear for nicer balance :)
 

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After doing some research about this myself, I also believe that the 2ZR in the Lotus is the same exact engine as the 2ZR in the Corolla, Matrix, etc. At first it would seem odd that Lotus would just pick a regular unmodified Corolla engine to use in their performance cars. But if you really think about it, Lotus must have done a lot of testing and research on the ZR engine and came to the conclusion that it is a competent enough motor to be used in a sports car with a supercharger strapped to it. Even Toyota used the same supercharged ZR in the Yaris GRMN.

This is what makes the 2ZR attractive to me, there's some serious potential in it albeit, you'll have to spend a bit of money on forced induction or engine mods to get there. MWR supports this engine pretty well too with upgraded cams, pistons, rods, cranks, etc. The only limitation for now is tuning the stock ECU, a piggyback or standalone is required for most types of tuning. There's even other possibilities such as using a 3ZR block to make a 2.0L engine. Transmission choices are plenty as well with various C5x, C6x, and EC6x options available. With enough money, the possibilities are endless!

I'd love to do an N/A build of the ZR in my Vibe but forced induction would be nice as well. If only I could find the Lotus's Magnuson supercharger for a decent price!
 

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The factory elise came with a 2zz. In the image, it's a 2zr with a 2zz intake. Not sure what the compression is in the 2zr, but I assume it's close to the 1zz. As it has close to the same torque or close to the 1zz. 2zz is not a motor that has torque. In the 9th gen corolla xrs, it was 164 hp/120 lb ft torque.

Of the boosted applications with the 1zz, they like the setup as it can hook better off the line and through the gears. In my 2zz, it's mid range power and floats at higher rpm to red line.

Op, your yaris 2zr build is plenty stout as is. Your curb weight is close to that of the Elise/mr-s. I would suggest you look into an lsd. What I've found with elise 2zz is that it suffers from oil starvation. No baffle in the oil pan. The 1zz has a baffle for oil. Does the 2zr also have a baffle in the oil pan too?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks gents for these great replies. Lots of great stuff to discuss here. Have to get ready for work, but will respond a bit later.
 
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The factory elise came with a 2zz. In the image, it's a 2zr with a 2zz intake. Not sure what the compression is in the 2zr, but I assume it's close to the 1zz. As it has close to the same torque or close to the 1zz. 2zz is not a motor that has torque. In the 9th gen corolla xrs, it was 164 hp/120 lb ft torque.

Of the boosted applications with the 1zz, they like the setup as it can hook better off the line and through the gears. In my 2zz, it's mid range power and floats at higher rpm to red line.

Op, your yaris 2zr build is plenty stout as is. Your curb weight is close to that of the Elise/mr-s. I would suggest you look into an lsd. What I've found with elise 2zz is that it suffers from oil starvation. No baffle in the oil pan. The 1zz has a baffle for oil. Does the 2zr also have a baffle in the oil pan too?
The 2ZZ intake manifold on a 2ZR is something that I'd like to do. One guy who did it had to get an adapter plate made since the bolt holes are different. Also a larger DBW throttle body needs to be used as well. I do think this would give some good gains as the 2ZZ manifold is a 2 piece manifold that looks to flow a lot better than the 1ZZ/2ZR intake manifolds.

As for the 2ZR oil pan, I am not sure if it has a baffle. When I took my Vibe to an open lapping track day, I overfilled my oil a little bit as a precautionary measure so that the engine doesn't starve around corners. When I'd come to the pits after 4-5 hot laps, it seemed to have burnt the extra oil so I'd assume it doesn't have a baffle. That makes me wonder how the Lotus 2ZR's oil pan looks like as that must have a baffle in it.

EDIT: Looking at the ZR oil pan, it has 2 portions. The lower "pan" portion and an upper portion. Would this be considered a baffle? It doesn't look like it to me
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Discussion Starter #10
The factory elise came with a 2zz. In the image, it's a 2zr with a 2zz intake. Not sure what the compression is in the 2zr, but I assume it's close to the 1zz. As it has close to the same torque or close to the 1zz. 2zz is not a motor that has torque. In the 9th gen corolla xrs, it was 164 hp/120 lb ft torque.

Of the boosted applications with the 1zz, they like the setup as it can hook better off the line and through the gears. In my 2zz, it's mid range power and floats at higher rpm to red line.

Op, your yaris 2zr build is plenty stout as is. Your curb weight is close to that of the Elise/mr-s. I would suggest you look into an lsd. What I've found with elise 2zz is that it suffers from oil starvation. No baffle in the oil pan. The 1zz has a baffle for oil. Does the 2zr also have a baffle in the oil pan too?
It is true that the Elise came with a 2zz - in the USA. The UK versions had the 2ZR, both NA (I believe) and supercharged. The 2ZR has a 10:1 compression ratio. I have discovered another difference between the 1ZZ and 2ZR. The former has lifter buckets and the latter, rocker rollers. I've read about the rocker rollers popping out of place with a mis-shift over rev. I think this is only likely if the engine hit extremely high RPMs.

I am glad that I went with the 2ZR over the 2ZZ for the precise reason you stated - more torque in lower RPMs. Although probably not necessary for my power goals, it would be nice to have forged rods like the 2ZZ.

Unfortunately, an LSD is out of the question as I'm running the 4-speed auto. If I eventually do a manual swap (the guts of a c60 6-speed can fit into the c50 case), I would look at an LSD for sure along with upgraded clutch.

I've attached a pic of my 2ZR upper oil pan which I took when I was installing my turbo oil return line. Although I'm not sure this would be considered a baffle, the sump is certainly separated from the lower rotating assembly.

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It is true that the Elise came with a 2zz - in the USA. The UK versions had the 2ZR, both NA (I believe) and supercharged. The 2ZR has a 10:1 compression ratio. I have discovered another difference between the 1ZZ and 2ZR. The former has lifter buckets and the latter, rocker rollers. I've read about the rocker rollers popping out of place with a mis-shift over rev. I think this is only likely if the engine hit extremely high RPMs.

I am glad that I went with the 2ZR over the 2ZZ for the precise reason you stated - more torque in lower RPMs. Although probably not necessary for my power goals, it would be nice to have forged rods like the 2ZZ.

Unfortunately, an LSD is out of the question as I'm running the 4-speed auto. If I eventually do a manual swap (the guts of a c60 6-speed can fit into the c50 case), I would look at an LSD for sure along with upgraded clutch.

I've attached a pic of my 2ZR upper oil pan which I took when I was installing my turbo oil return line. Although I'm not sure this would be considered a baffle, the sump is certainly separated from the lower rotating assembly.

View attachment 323568
The baffle would be in the pan itself. I wonder if a 1zz pan would work here? Unfortunately, the issue of the 2zz is during cornering. As the oil sloshes in the pan, it moves away from the pickup tube. Of course, this is during hard cornering in longer transitions. The shorter transitions will not cause that issue.

Some owners here have swapped to the 1zz oil pan for the baffle instead of modifying the original 2zz pan.

Something to look into.
 

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The baffle would be in the pan itself. I wonder if a 1zz pan would work here? Unfortunately, the issue of the 2zz is during cornering. As the oil sloshes in the pan, it moves away from the pickup tube. Of course, this is during hard cornering in longer transitions. The shorter transitions will not cause that issue.

Some owners here have swapped to the 1zz oil pan for the baffle instead of modifying the original 2zz pan.

Something to look into.
Don't think a 1ZZ pan can be swapped over, the oil pan looks to be quite different between the two. The ZZ has a traditional 1 piece oil pan while the ZR has an upper and lower portion, the lower portion being very small for a baffle.

ZZ Oil Pan:
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ZR Oil Pan:
Upper Lower
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However, I do believe that 06Yaris may be right in that the upper portion may serve as somewhat of a baffle. I'd really like to see how the upper portion looks on a Lotus ZR, if it's the same then it seems these engines are fine to race with without an aftermarket pan.

EDIT: Found the Lotus 2ZR sump assembly. There's no baffle in the lower portion just like the Corolla ZR so it seems like even the sump assemblies are identical too.
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It's funny that the 2ZZ wouldn't have baffling in the sump, especially since the oil pump has been known to disintegrate if it looses oil for a millisecond. Or so I've heard. I remain completely convinced that the Lotus and Corolla 2ZRs are identical. It makes me feel very good about my build.
 

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Guess it's not baffled? I can't tell by the images.
It's not baffled in the lower section (the black pan) so I'm presuming the upper portion has some sort of "baffling" to prevent the engine from starving oil around high G corners. I mean, with so many of the Elise owners tracking their cars and there being no reports of engine failure due to starvation, there has to be something within the ZR's that does the work of a normal baffle within the sump assembly. I'll be doing some more research to find a definitive answer though.

As a sidenote, I'm starting to get a really strong urge to want a Series 3 Elise. They weren't sold in Canada so I'd have to wait 5-15 years to import one but hopefully by then the prices may have dropped (hopefully they don't rise too much either).
 

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It's not baffled in the lower section (the black pan) so I'm presuming the upper portion has some sort of "baffling" to prevent the engine from starving oil around high G corners. I mean, with so many of the Elise owners tracking their cars and there being no reports of engine failure due to starvation, there has to be something within the ZR's that does the work of a normal baffle within the sump assembly. I'll be doing some more research to find a definitive answer though.

As a sidenote, I'm starting to get a really strong urge to want a Series 3 Elise. They weren't sold in Canada so I'd have to wait 5-15 years to import one but hopefully by then the prices may have dropped (hopefully they don't rise too much either).
I agree with your logic in the first paragraph. I know what you mean about how appealing those Lotus cars are. I've been gorging on youtube videos. They are one impressive automobile, aren't they.
 
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I agree with your logic in the first paragraph. I know what you mean about how appealing those Lotus cars are. I've been gorging on youtube videos. They are one impressive automobile, aren't they.
So I'm not the only crazy one around here, I was ready to do this project last year and I contacted everyone, lotus mechanics, independent shops which are scarce around this area and others, including, deroure, harrop USA, pitbull performance, hydra motor works, boe, rick's tanks and finally monkey wrench racing (as of today still waiting for monkey wrench racing quote).

My idea was to ship my car and install the supercharger and do the tuning. A guy here in Florida did it to a 11 gen, I tried to track him but it was impossible, so at this point I kind of give up regarding the project.

I don't know if it’s because is a Corolla they assume automatically you don't have the money to do it ? which will cost around $8000 based on my calculations, but if you happen to have better luck than me let me know and I will do it as well, I'm not handy so I will need a shop to do the installation process.

I hope this link will help you on your quest : Toyota Corolla (2014) for sale




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After some searching, I've found an alternative supercharger system for the ZR that's not the Magnuson unit... kind of. A company in the U.K. that makes aftermarket parts for Lotus' called Komo-tec sells a rotrex supercharger upgrade for the 1ZR Elise's. It should bolt up to the 2ZR based on my knowledge however, there are a few problems. First off is the price. It costs almost 8,000 euros (about $9,600 USD or $12,100 CAD) which is quite a lot without factoring in shipping, taxes, etc. The next problem is the EMU it comes with for tuning. As you can see in the picture below, the Lotus ECU seems to be made by Lotus in-house so I have doubts that the EMU would work with the North American ZR ECU's. This means that you'll have to do custom tuning to your ECU whether it be a standalone or reflash.

So yeah, it's another supercharger alternative which is really cool to see but unless you are dedicated to supercharging and have the money to get the kit, it's kind of out of reach for us in North America. Here's the link anyways:
Phase S200 Turbodrive Upgrade +60hp/+55Nm Elise (1ZR)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sounds like turbo is a more affordable way to get power. The turbo kit also produces more power - or has the capability of doing so.

As an aside, I have been communicating with a guy at Lotustalk and he's sending me data logs of his friend's Lotus Elise. The car is producing 300 bhp on the 2ZR. I had expressed interest in the target AFRs per boost level so that I can eventually get a tune that mimics those. I have no doubt that Lotus has the absolute best tune for these engines.
 
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