The Dealership dance

"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]
> Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
> dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
>
> The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
> $18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
> That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
> A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
>
> Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
> in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
> away. The locals want $18,900.
>
> All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
> if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
> that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
> money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
>
> Is it really true they're not making any money? I
> can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!

Dealerships are not meant to be a non-profit organization and they do not
sell at a loss. All other things being equal, a dealership with a lower
overhead can sell for less markup than one with a high overhead, and one
that sells more volume can sell for less markup than one that sell at a
lower volume becuase certain costs are fairly constant.

>
> The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
> dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
> them?

If purchase price is your sole determing factor, then you should purchase
from the dealer with the lowest cost. If you factor in customer service,
reputation, and convenience, then the answer is not as clear.

The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
> be identical to the other dealerships, won't it?

Yes.

And last
> just as long before breaking down, I hope?

Yes.
>
> Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
> much.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

I found that despite all the hoopla about using the various
internet/fax/phone methods for buying a car that, at least for me,
nothing beat actually going into the dealership and walking out when
they refuse to hit your price.

It's funny, but when I was searching for my Camry LE (four-speed), all
dealerships, except one quoted ME $18,200 -- and that was taking into
account the $1,000 rebate that Toyota was offering at the time....so
the "real" selling price was $19,200. I did several combos of e-mail,
phone and fax contacts, depending on the dealers, ranging from a number
of people who have various titles such as "internet sales manager,"
fleet sales manager, etc.

I finally went into my two local dealerships IN PERSON, both within 20
miles, told them I would pay no more than $17,400 BEFORE rebate. They
both flatly refused, but when I got home later that day, I had messages
on my answering from both dealers agreeing to my price....

"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]
>
> Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
> dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
>
> The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
> $18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
> That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
> A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
>

did those prices include the factory to customer rebate ?
watch out for stealing your rebate, funny dealers give you a sell price
quote (minus the factory to customer rebate) so that it makes their quote
look like great offer

so the 18,200 is **everything** but Tax/Tag/Title ?

too bad you can not find a new '05 with the $1500 rebate

>
> Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
> in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
> away. The locals want $18,900.
>
> All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
> if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
> that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
> money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
>

Not surprised, sales people know you are shopping around but they do not
want it thrown in their face? that is they want you to be adversary not
compete with some other sales person.

>
> Is it really true they're not making any money? I
> can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!
>

If it is a real quote then dealer is benefiting somehow , making money,
meeting quota, moving stock not at loss etc

>
> The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
> dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
> them? The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
> be identical to the other dealerships, won't it? And last
> just as long before breaking down, I hope?
>
sounds like another volume discount situation so sounds plausible. The sales
manager at dealer i purchased from over internet/phone said that 85% of
there business was pre-sold vehicles, they were volume as well.

YMMV but
I was once burned by a similar deal (when i was younger and more naieve) a
dealer about 40 min drive from me gave a good quote over the phone and faxed
it to me. when i drove out they said sorry that car has been purchased can
we interest you in this one (of course for a little bit more). so avoid this
however one does this. 100 miles is a bit of a hike.

>
> Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
> much.
>

www.carbuyersecret.com to calculate a fair offer.
(toyota have %2 holdback and $500 factory-dealer incentive)

www.carsdirect.com to get an idea of what a car buying agent can buy same
car for then subtract the middle-man fee (%5-7) to get a ball park
negotiated price, my first pass at buying '05 highlander carsdirect could
get about $200 better than me so i knew my quotes were at least $1200 more
than i should expect

I just went through this with a '06 highlander

Internet/phone shopping is way i purchased but mainly because i was tired of
the run around with dealership games, that is trying to steal your time. The
free quotes through Edmunds and others was a joke about 1 to 4 callback
successes. I visited closest dealer's websites and sent a e-mail direct,
said i wanted a car with these options send me quote, i have time frame 2
weeks (that gave best response)

Nothing beats the negotiation power of walking out of dealership when they
do not want to deal *BUT* (the big but) one needs to have a real figure
when you negotiate with your feet. If it is a bogus low ball and you walk,
you likely become the joke of the day, if it is a real offer and you walk
that is negotiation.

Depends on your preferences i suppose.

HTH

The 18,200 includes the current $500 rebate and
the doc fee.

I suppose the low-priced dealership coming in at
$18,200 was "lying" when they said over the phone
that they weren't making any money selling the
'06 Camry LE automatic at 18,200.

I think 18,200 is a good price because 2 dealerships
didn't even give me a quote, saying they couldn't
match 18,200 and so wouldn't even provide a quote.

I think the 18,200 was a no-haggle price. I think
it's a good price because
CarMax.com's Laurel, Maryland Toyota dealership also
has a no-haggle price of about 18,200 on the same car.

CarMax.com has no-haggle pricing, but I think it's
important to choose the right CarMax because it looks
like the Chicago CarMax.com dealership is more expensive
than the Laurel, Maryland CarMax (Baltimore/D.C. area).

Both CarMax's have no-haggle pricing, but one prices
lower than the other.

Built_Well wrote:
> Is it really true they're not making any money?
> I can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!

What does kbb.com say the invoice price is for your configuration?
Make the dealers break down their prices (details!) so you can
see how they arrive at the bottom line. This way, for example,
there's no doubt about what's happening with any rebates.
And they can't surprise/trick you later by saying that a certain
cost was not included in their earlier quote.


Ray O wrote:
> If you factor in customer service, reputation, and convenience,
> then the answer is not as clear.

On a purchase transaction of a vehicle (not maintenance/service
of the vehicle), why are these important? There's a bottom line,
drive out price.

(I agree they're important for maintenance/service.)

Gee guy, 18.2 to 18.8, that's not much play. Let's keep it simple. Do you
need a car today? A certain color? Are you patient and like to shop? Get
a price from at least two buying services, and not too far from home.

When you call, have you considered asking for the fleet rep and see what
they can do? You tie up a retail sales guy or gal, and they need their
piece of the action. Don't assume a phone call will be accurate. Business
happens face to face.

Got my hard to find truck at Capital Toyota Salem, Or in July 04. Toyota
Los Angeles zone had zero and were getting zero. Found one at Toyota San
Francisco, gave a $1000 deposit and was ready to buy. Go to get the car,
and the price increased $1000. Toyota of downtown San Francisco was real
sorry and gave me my deposit back. I was not mad. I did not get excited.
I know the game. I made my move (deposit), and had to wait for their next
counter move (price increase). My next move was to buy or keep looking.
When you have a phone or two, a notebook with wireless, maybe a portable
printer, but most of all TIME, you take your money back and start dialing.

Extras: I wanted the factory alarm. Got bids from $300 to $1000, and yes I
have auto door locks. Capital Toyota was the highest, and why not. It
would have been convenient.

You can save a bit if you are willing to do your homework, and are willing
and able to travel. But the more you ask for, the better the dealer can get
that extra $500 out of you. Dealers play this game every day, and you
don't. Your odds of winning are slim. Even if you are extra careful, one
drop of the guard, and they get that little extra. It's their job. It's
how they feed their family.

So, how bad do you want to play?

"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]
> The 18,200 includes the current $500 rebate and
> the doc fee.
>
> I suppose the low-priced dealership coming in at
> $18,200 was "lying" when they said over the phone

Current factory rebate in Northern VA is $750 -- are the different in
different regions? Local Dealer has '06 LE for 18,400 with side air
curtains (plus $199 processing).

"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]
> Well, I did the Edmunds thing of contacting several
> dealerships in one fell swoop via Edmunds' internet form.
>
> The first dealership located 100 miles away quoted me
> $18,200 (including doc. fee) for a new '06 automatic Camry LE.
> That's the best price. Another dealership quoted $18,700.
> A third 19,100. The fourth and last one never emailed.
>
> Unfortunately, my local dealership isn't participating
> in the Edmunds network--a shame since they're only 5 miles
> away. The locals want $18,900.
>
> All the dealerships were very DISpleased when I asked
> if any of them could match the 18,200 from the dealership
> that's located 100 miles away. "They're not making any
> money on that deal," one salesman retorted.
>
> Is it really true they're not making any money? I
> can't see why a dealership would sell at a loss!
>
> The lowest priced fellas are the largest Toyota
> dealership in the state, by the way. Should I buy from
> them? The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will
> be identical to the other dealerships, won't it? And last
> just as long before breaking down, I hope?
>
> Any advice would be great appreciated. Thanks very
> much.

"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]
> The 18,200 includes the current $500 rebate and
> the doc fee.
>

so seems the doc fee wiped canceled the rebate and you are back at near
invoice

in my area rebate is $750 for '06 and $1500 for '05

>
> I suppose the low-priced dealership coming in at
> $18,200 was "lying" when they said over the phone
> that they weren't making any money selling the
> '06 Camry LE automatic at 18,200.
>
> I think 18,200 is a good price because 2 dealerships
> didn't even give me a quote, saying they couldn't
> match 18,200 and so wouldn't even provide a quote.
>

well according to car buyers secret 18,200 provides dealer around %5 profit
margin which is a fair deal as they need to make money and they they usually
minimally operate around %2-3 which would come out to about 17,900 so a
pretty good fair deal

the actual cost to dealer for the car is about 17,384 maybe less

>
> I think the 18,200 was a no-haggle price. I think
> it's a good price because
> CarMax.com's Laurel, Maryland Toyota dealership also
> has a no-haggle price of about 18,200 on the same car.
>
> CarMax.com has no-haggle pricing, but I think it's
> important to choose the right CarMax because it looks
> like the Chicago CarMax.com dealership is more expensive
> than the Laurel, Maryland CarMax (Baltimore/D.C. area).
>
> Both CarMax's have no-haggle pricing, but one prices
> lower than the other.

good luck with car

"processing" other name for taking your $ as extra profit for them.
Supposedly cover office expense and other expenses of doing business. Yup
big scam --- as bad as house closing junk fees! Some have nerve to add in
cost of regional advertising too and even "hold back" when they get car from
another dealer for you.

"Pszemol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "Wolfgang" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]
>> Current factory rebate in Northern VA is $750 -- are the different in
>> different regions? Local Dealer has '06 LE for 18,400 with side air
>> curtains (plus $199 processing).
>
> Processing of what ?

[email protected] (ll)
wrote:

>What does kbb.com say the invoice price
>is for your configuration? Make the
>dealers break down their prices
>(details!) so you can see how they arrive
>at the bottom line.

Reading this strikes me that the auto industry is one of a few, if not
the only, business that has to show how they arrive at a price. Can you
imagine Best Buy breaking down their price on a Maytag washer dryer
combo? Or Mickey D's telling you how they arrived at their price for a
Big Mac?

Are there any other businesses that have to show a breakdown of how
their pricing works?

Pszemol wrote:
>
> I went to carmax.com to...check what is
> available...and I found something strange...


Pszemol, the options list is often NOT accurate
at CarMax.com. You have to call them to make
sure of the options.

Their web site is kinda flaky, that way.

For example, the CarMax options list might not show
side curtain air bags, which will add about $600
to a Camry LE. Also, their horsepower figures are
often wrong too. They show the Corolla LE as having
164 horsepower, instead of 126.

It kinda defeats the purpose of having a web site if
you have to call the company to confirm
everything [chuckle].

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:14:53 -0800, [email protected] (ravelation)
wrote:

>
>[email protected] (ll)
>wrote:
>
>>What does kbb.com say the invoice price
> >is for your configuration? Make the
> >dealers break down their prices
> >(details!) so you can see how they arrive
> >at the bottom line.
>
>Reading this strikes me that the auto industry is one of a few, if not
>the only, business that has to show how they arrive at a price. Can you
>imagine Best Buy breaking down their price on a Maytag washer dryer
>combo? Or Mickey D's telling you how they arrived at their price for a
>Big Mac?
>
>Are there any other businesses that have to show a breakdown of how
>their pricing works?
>

Some Government contracts require it down to the cost of pencils...
--

Scott in Florida

Scott in Florida wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:14:53 -0800, [email protected] (ravelation)
> wrote:
>
> >
> >[email protected] (ll)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>What does kbb.com say the invoice price
> > >is for your configuration? Make the
> > >dealers break down their prices
> > >(details!) so you can see how they arrive
> > >at the bottom line.
> >
> >Reading this strikes me that the auto industry is one of a few, if not
> >the only, business that has to show how they arrive at a price. Can you
> >imagine Best Buy breaking down their price on a Maytag washer dryer
> >combo? Or Mickey D's telling you how they arrived at their price for a
> >Big Mac?
> >
> >Are there any other businesses that have to show a breakdown of how
> >their pricing works?
> >
>
> Some Government contracts require it down to the cost of pencils...

Mark Warner, Democrat Governor of Virginia, actually started doing just
that. That's why Virginia has been voted the best managed state in the
Nation, and that's also why Mark Warner's approval ratings are hovering
around 80% -- even though he forced the Virginia Republican delegates
to RAISE TAXES.

Wolfgang wrote:
>> Processing of what?
>
> "processing" other name for taking your $ as extra profit
> for them. ... big scam

Exactly.


ravelation wrote:
> Can you imagine Best Buy breaking down their price on a Maytag
> washer dryer combo?

That's a really poor example. When you get to the register
BB doesn't say, "My manager won't approve the deal unless
you pay a couple hundred more." And countless other tricks
that dealership _salesmen_ do.

One of our Toyotas was bought through a buying service
and the other through the dealer's internet manager.
Both were bought for a small amount over invoice.
No hassles or tricks whatsoever. It made buying
a pleasure instead of torture.

On 11 Dec 2005 09:41:27 -0800, "Learning Richard"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>forced the Virginia Republican delegates
>to RAISE TAXES.

ROFLMAO....now that is an accomplishment...

brag about raising taxes.....

Only an idiotic Democrat would come up with that!!!!!

--

Scott in Florida