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Discussion Starter #1
Hello. First post to a new forum.

I am a regular at ChevyTalk, but recently got the girlfriends 93 Tercel back. 174k and still kickin. To bad her sis hit a deer with it. Oh well what ya gonna do.:disappoin :

At any rate the car has been around since 30k so I know all the history of it. A few brake jobs, tuneups, the usuall maintainence stuff.

Well I know the timing belt has never been changed:eek: . From what I have read from the forums here, it should have been done loooong ago.

I am very capable of performing the required work, but have never done this type of job. I could tear down and rebuild a small block chev in my sleep, but this is new territory for me. I really dont want the timing belt to break and have a valve go through the piston.

If anybody has a exploded view or can give some pointers on how this job is done I would greatly appriacate any help with this.

Thanks for your time.
 

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Ive done 2 of these jobs and they're very basic. A few things to remember; the crankshaft pulley bolt is very tight, once its off put a thin film of anti-seize on it; set the c/s pulley on "0" and the #1 valve rockers(followers) should be loose; the head bolts are "torque-to-yield" and are NOT re-usable; if the timing belt pulleys are questionable, now is the time to replace them. If ya have any more questions...hit me back and i'll do my best to help ya out. PS beware of stealership parts prices.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh man. Do the pulleys really wear out? :disappoin

Are they made of plastic or something other than metal?

Do I need to pull the head for this job?
I ask because you said the headbolts are not reusable. Which is no big deal if I do need to remove the head and replace the bolts.

Sounds a little more in depth then just a simple belt change. Ugh:headbang:
 

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OOPS....my bad, for some dumb reason i was under the brief impression you were pulling the head, sorry bout that. Yes the timing belt pulleys (bearings) do wear out and can make a grinding or squealing noise if ignored for too long. before you remove the old belt, verify the valve timing...on the cam pulley there are 2 holes; one is for a 2E and the other is for a 3E. There is a indent on the cam bearing cap that can be seen when looking through the hole if the 3E mark is lined up properly...should be 12:00 position. You MUST verify these 2 marks after the new belt is installed( the 0 on the timing cover and the indent on the cam bearing cap)...double check if ya have to as these pulleys can and will move when installing a new belt. There is also a timing cover rubber grommet that fits around the motor mount....its kind of a pain but not impossible to put back but you should know about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sweet. I am so glad I dont need to pull the head. :banger: :woot:

Was afraid the rings would take a dump if the head was r & r'd.

If I can find the body parts to fix it up "again" , then I'll look around for one of the better motors I read about in the thread "Tercel engine swap, possible"

Sounds like some good horsepower from them little 4 bangers. :bowdown: Would love to make it into a 5spd too. :thumbsup:

Thanks for all your help:banger: . I'll be back if I get lost :whatthe: :lol:

Now off to tear into it. :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Is it in right ??????

Ok so I changed out the timing belt. Not a big deal. I am kinda suprized at how the yodas are laid out. Not to bad to work on.

At anyrate. The belt is changed but I'm not sure I have it correctly in time. It seems to idle really ruff and kinda boggy on take off. It also seems to be running really rich. Lots of blue smoke (unburned gas).

What is the timing supposed to be at ??
How many degrees before or after tdc ??

I did try moving the distributor some, but it didnt really help too much. Any other reason it would run like crap ??

Well here are some pics of the belt and pulleys. Can you tell from the pics if it is in time?





 

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See, its not that hard. You mentioned rough idiling....its possible it might be off a tooth as thats all it takes. The timing gear marks should line up perfectly and it looks like they do. After you got the belt on did you temporarily reinstall the lower timing cover along with the pulley and check those marks too? When i ripped into mine the first time i didnt trust the lower timing belt pulley and pump housing as it doesnt give a very accurate reading of the timing. When i did mine for the first i didnt even mess with the distributor other than scribe two small lines so i know where the factory setting is/was. Basically put, it should idle the same way before the new belt, if its not then something is wrong. BTW nice pics. In the pics, is the tensioner already adjusted or were you not quite finished yet? IF the marks are perfectly lined up while the belt is loose then its possible to "pull" it out of time when tightening up the tensioner pulley
 

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Discussion Starter #10
After you got the belt on did you temporarily reinstall the lower timing cover along with the pulley and check those marks too?


Opps my bad. I never even thought of it.


Basically put, it should idle the same way before the new belt,

It wouldn't run hardly at all before the new belt. Had to put it to the floor to get her going and then when she would run, she acted on of time. That's when I checked to see if the last "shop" had replaced the belt when they did the head gasket. Which the basturds never did !!!!!

Thats the last time it gets touched by another "so called" mechanic. Ok nuff ranting.

It did run and drive after they "worked on it" and didnt starting running like a turd for about 2 years.

If I'd have only known they didnt change that belt:disappoin.


In the pics, is the tensioner already adjusted or were you not quite finished yet?

I was just about done. I did spin the engine over twice before I tighted the idler. Confirmed the bottom mark and the top "hole" where it time.

BTW nice pics.

Thanx. I think it helps when your trying to explain a problem or give some help. Good refference material.:thumbsup:
 

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There is a chance that it skipped a tooth if ya spun the engine around with the belt loose. That belt must be TIGHT before ya spin the engine around, otherwise it could easily skip and ya may never know until its all bolted back together......and it runs rough.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Damn I was afraid of that.

Is it possible to just loosen the tensioner bolt through the plastic cover ( I see there is an access hole) and then remove the top plastic cover. And then take the belt off the cam gear and move it one tooth?

And if thats possible, Which way would I turn the gear?

Man I think it's time to invest in a motors manual for this beast.

Any one manual better than another?

Thanx for all the help so far.
 

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Well.....ya could but ya dont know which way to turn the gear as you might be advanced one tooth or retarded one tooth. Here's what to do; set the crank pulley mark dead on 0, next check the marks on the timing gear and the cam bearing cap. Mark the belt and the pulley and use this as a reference point( these marks should change) and try to line up the top mark and using the lower timing cover, line up the lower timing mark to 0, if its off you should see it as one of the marks will be off. ( Hint: the bearing cap has a small indent that you could use punch or an awl to poke through the cam gear to confirm its position) To get this right will take some patience, infact you might have to leave some slack in the cam gear so when you go to tighten up the belt the holes will line up PERFECTLY, and you might have to do this more than once so.....BE PATIENT. ( it can be frustrating....i know).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok here we go.

1 - Checked and verified tdc.
2 - Checked and verified cam position hole with indent on head.
3 - Pulled distributor cap and verfied rotor pointing at #1 on cap.

All seems to be dead on the nuts. So I cleaned the inside of the cap, the hall effects pickups and rotor.

Reinstalled and fired her up. Runs great. I then put the timing light on it. Idleing about 750 rpm. Check the timing marks. It's bouncing from 7 to 17 btdc. This is correct from what the manual says. I then start to get my wire ready to do the jump on the diagnostic bank (the motor was approaching running temp). and check to see she was truely at 10 btdc.

That's when it started to happen. Running ruff. Smelling really rich(too much gas). And the idle dropped way off. She wouldn't even stay running with out giving it throttle.

So it is definetly tied into something that only happens as it gets to opp temps.

Now here's the wierd part. I discovered (by accident) that by doing the jumper wire at the diagnostic bank, this tripped the ecu into giving up a trouble code. Or so I think.

So I grabbed the manual and looked up the only code that was flashing = 51.

The manual says - Diagnosis
No IDL signal or no NSW signal or A/C signal to the ECU when the test connector E1 and T are connected.

Trouble area
1 - A/C switch or circuit (no ac on my car)
2 - A/C amplifier (again no ac)
3 - Neutral start switch auto trans (mine is manual)
4 - Throttle position sensor
5 - ECU

I am not sure how to take the trouble code.
Is it because of the jumper wire?
Or is the tps sensor bad?
I dont think it's the ECU cause the car does run. Just not very good once warm.

Ughhh I hate fuel injection.
 

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Its entirely possible the TPS sensor is bad, i mean its electronic and it can fail, however the idle-up VSV may be bad too. Did the car have this problem before you replaced the timing belt? From what you described the timing and the belt are dead on. I obviously cant see the top of the engine (unless you post pics )then i can help ya out as i have a factory manual for my 94. If you can post pics and are handy with a DVOM, i need to see the front of the throttle body with the TPS sensor disconnected and one of the passenger side of the engine compartment, more specifically the vacuum line thingys that are mounted on the top of the engine mount. With these pics i might be able to help you with diagnosing the problem and im thinking its either the Idle up VSV or the TPS
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Did the car have this problem before you replaced the timing belt?

Yes and no. I didn't have the car when it started running bad, but did look at it when she called and said it wouldn't run for her anymore.

When I first looked at it, it sounded out of time. Would not run on it's own. Had to hold it to the floor to get it to pop off. Then it just ran like a turd. I just figured it was way out of time.

Which brought me to replacing the timing belt.

At any rate here are some pics.

Oh yeah what is a DVOM?
Or a VSV for that matter?








If by chance these dont show enough just holler and I'll shoot some more.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yeah I seen a guy blow off a set of air bags in a squad car because he was probing the wrong wires. We tried to warn him but he just kept on poking away. Dumb ass:lol:
 
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