Thanks for the side by side comparison. Total Chaos seems to be the way to go. For only $140 more the difference is worth i
Total Chaos vs. Camburg?? UPDATE! LR UCA's info added.
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
I am glad that I went with the TC's the first time, I was going to go with the Camburg's initially!
Mine are going to go on next Wednesday. Same setup as Hans front and rear.
Mine are going to go on next Wednesday. Same setup as Hans front and rear.
THought I'd throw this in from Scott at Camburg.
It's great to see so much interest in our Camburg products. I'm a little dissappointed that some mis-information is going around though.
Total Chaos makes great products, but here are the reasons why our upper arms are a better product and value than theirs.
1) We use a higher quality Aurora 1.00" teflonlined uniball. It is both made and assembled in the USA. The next best bearing is a mil-spec NHBB that is about 4x the cost and no one supplies with a kit. In our little world we don't need anything stronger, unlike the aerospace industry.
2) We were the first to offer zerk grease fittings on the a-arm that are used in conjuction with thicker walled 7/8" CNC machined sleeves and energy suspension polyurethane bushings. This offers less deflection in the arm and keeps the geometry more accurate.
3) We use a smaller 5/8" F-911 bolt compared to TC's 3/4". Since we're using a smaller diameter bolt we're able to get more mis-alignment out of the uniball. Strength is not compromised since we're using an aircraft grade F911 bolt. Your spindle will break way before that bolt does.
4) All our mis-alignment spacers are machined from 17-4 stainless steel. We use nothing but the best. One of the huge differences is how our lower uniball/spindle insert is. It is considerably stronger and costs a lot more to machine. TC and others do it as two pieces which isnt as strong and costs less to make. We have a ton more shear lateral strength because of our design.
5) We put more castor into the arms which gives better straightline stability both on and off-road.
6) The design and geometry TC has will cause the spindle to hit the frame/coil bucket on full compression. We have plenty of clearance. Sprindles or any suspension components coming into contact with anything is a design flaw and shouldnt take place.
7) We use a high-gloss steel gray powdercoat, not black. It holds up very well and we've had ZERO problems or complaints.
8) I'm not sure if TC supplies you with polyurethane grease, we do. We also supply you with zinc-plated washers, just like TC.
- Scott Zindroski
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/handling-suspension-and-axle/33725-2005-teamwest-camburg-review-3/?highlight=deavers
It's great to see so much interest in our Camburg products. I'm a little dissappointed that some mis-information is going around though.
Total Chaos makes great products, but here are the reasons why our upper arms are a better product and value than theirs.
1) We use a higher quality Aurora 1.00" teflonlined uniball. It is both made and assembled in the USA. The next best bearing is a mil-spec NHBB that is about 4x the cost and no one supplies with a kit. In our little world we don't need anything stronger, unlike the aerospace industry.
2) We were the first to offer zerk grease fittings on the a-arm that are used in conjuction with thicker walled 7/8" CNC machined sleeves and energy suspension polyurethane bushings. This offers less deflection in the arm and keeps the geometry more accurate.
3) We use a smaller 5/8" F-911 bolt compared to TC's 3/4". Since we're using a smaller diameter bolt we're able to get more mis-alignment out of the uniball. Strength is not compromised since we're using an aircraft grade F911 bolt. Your spindle will break way before that bolt does.
4) All our mis-alignment spacers are machined from 17-4 stainless steel. We use nothing but the best. One of the huge differences is how our lower uniball/spindle insert is. It is considerably stronger and costs a lot more to machine. TC and others do it as two pieces which isnt as strong and costs less to make. We have a ton more shear lateral strength because of our design.
5) We put more castor into the arms which gives better straightline stability both on and off-road.
6) The design and geometry TC has will cause the spindle to hit the frame/coil bucket on full compression. We have plenty of clearance. Sprindles or any suspension components coming into contact with anything is a design flaw and shouldnt take place.
7) We use a high-gloss steel gray powdercoat, not black. It holds up very well and we've had ZERO problems or complaints.
8) I'm not sure if TC supplies you with polyurethane grease, we do. We also supply you with zinc-plated washers, just like TC.
- Scott Zindroski
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/handling-suspension-and-axle/33725-2005-teamwest-camburg-review-3/?highlight=deavers
Still looks like the TC are the wtg... noted for when my ball joints go--- may as well replace the UCAs when that happens! HAHAHA
1) I can't answer don't know what TC uses?SCEXPLORER said:THought I'd throw this in from Scott at Camburg.
It's great to see so much interest in our Camburg products. I'm a little dissappointed that some mis-information is going around though.
Total Chaos makes great products, but here are the reasons why our upper arms are a better product and value than theirs.
1) We use a higher quality Aurora 1.00" teflonlined uniball. It is both made and assembled in the USA. The next best bearing is a mil-spec NHBB
that is about 4x the cost and no one supplies with a kit. In our little world we don't need anything stronger, unlike the aerospace industry.
2) We were the first to offer zerk grease fittings on the a-arm that are used in conjuction with thicker walled 7/8" CNC machined sleeves and energy
suspension polyurethane bushings. This offers less deflection in the arm and keeps the geometry more accurate.
3) We use a smaller 5/8" F-911 bolt compared to TC's 3/4". Since we're using a smaller diameter bolt we're able to get more mis-alignment out of the uniball. Strength is not compromised since we're using an aircraft grade F911 bolt. Your spindle will break way before that bolt does.
4) All our mis-alignment spacers are machined from 17-4 stainless steel. We use nothing but the best. One of the huge differences is how our lower uniball/spindle insert is. It is considerably stronger and costs a lot more to machine. TC and others do it as two pieces which isnt as strong and costs less to make. We have a ton more shear lateral strength because of our design.
5) We put more castor into the arms which gives better straightline stability both on and off-road.
6) The design and geometry TC has will cause the spindle to hit the frame/coil bucket on full compression. We have plenty of clearance. Sprindles or any suspension components coming into contact with anything is a design flaw and shouldnt take place.
7) We use a high-gloss steel gray powdercoat, not black. It holds up very well and we've had ZERO problems or complaints.
8) I'm not sure if TC supplies you with polyurethane grease, we do. We also supply you with zinc-plated washers, just like TC.
- Scott Zindroski
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/handling-suspension-and-axle/33725-2005-teamwest-camburg-review-3/?highlight=deavers
2) Camburg uses straight Zerk fittings that you will need a special
....fitting to grease once it is installed.
....TC uses a 90* zerk fitting make more sense, and is easier to access!
3) Bolt size? Not a big deal?
4) Misalignment spacers? The TC appear to be much more heavy duty,
....and better fitting.
5) Ask any professional that sells both the TC give more castor!
....[Qoute] "Wheelers off road" Camburg about 2* TC about 3* of castor.
6) This is probably true! But this is why it screwed up my alignment! It
....gave Too much clearance. 1/2" too much.
7) Color?? Who cares? Color doesn't matter!
8) TC doesn't come with Grease. But your the Camburg does have
....washers like TC's But TC's washers are Milled not Cheap stamped
....like Camburg. And TC's bushing sleeves are precision milled. Camburg's are simple tubing steel cut to length.
I understand that Camburg Or TC could tell you anything they want to make their product seem better than the other?
But I am Only talking from experience? I have owned both! And I am more than willing to pay a bit more for the quality and piece of mind that these TC will give me!
But the Biggest Factor is that Camburgs own Rep here admitted that the TC were made better? He had nothing to gain because I got them from Wheelers Off road. And I do all my own work on my truck. So he would have nothing to gain by backing one over the other.
He was just giving his professional opinion. He is one of the best fabricators in the state. IMHO!
I have 7 yrs. experience as a welder and fabricator myself. Designing hydrolic lifts and Modifying cars and trucks. Although I am no longer in the business I do know the difference in quality when I see it.
Although this is just MHO!
I am simply giving my opinion on these to products because I have first hand experience with both.
Both of these UCA's are of good quality! But TC's are clearly on a different level. IMHO!
Definitely Noted. I like you wished I went with TC over Camburgs. I only went with Camburgs cus I bought it used for a good price. I just wanted to include the facts from Camburg so people understand what their getting. I'm trying to find one from TC so that everyone can read both the company's and your opinion.
So does this mean you're not getting the replacement camburg UCA to measure for us poor folks who got camburg??
So does this mean you're not getting the replacement camburg UCA to measure for us poor folks who got camburg??
No sorry sorry the rep gave me a choice and agreed to help me get the TC's.SCEXPLORER said:Definitely Noted. I like you wished I went with TC over Camburgs. I only went with Camburgs cus I bought it used for a good price. I just wanted to include the facts from Camburg so people understand what their getting. I'm trying to find one from TC so that everyone can read both the company's and your opinion.
So does this mean you're not getting the replacement camburg UCA to measure for us poor folks who got camburg??
I do how ever have a picture of the incorrect Length UCA's From Camburg:
From the bushing to the end of the weld was 7" it should be only 6 1/2".
This is a way to determine if your Camburgs are the wrong size. I overheard them saying that the jig got moved somehow? so there maybe a bunch of these out there! So quality control at Camburg isn't that tight?
But on the bright side it would work better if you decide to lift your truck 6".
Thanks! I'll check mine tomorrow. Hopefully I don't have the wrong size.
you will love the setup. I was originally going to go with Camburgs too but I researched and found out a number of people had problems with them.andygriffith said:I am glad that I went with the TC's the first time, I was going to go with the Camburg's initially!
Mine are going to go on next Wednesday. Same setup as Hans front and rear.
post pics after you're done :thumbup:
Ahhh Crap!! Mine are 7" too!
Call firstSCEXPLORER said:Ahhh Crap!! Mine are 7" too!
, yours looks oktoku thanks for the info! my decision has been made to go with TC.
What are your alignment readings?SCEXPLORER said:Ahhh Crap!! Mine are 7" too!
Mine is 7" too. But my alignment seems fine. I don't have the alignment numbers.
I don't have the alignment numbers.
No Post here!
I bet your ball joint angles aren't as slanted as the camburgs too. I wonder how different could the dimensions be considering both arms are for the same truck. This is a mystery.
PM me over at Tacoma World
Does anyone have any ideas as to why with the Camburgs on it would lift my truck 1" higher? How can changing my UCA's add lift?
Did you drive around and let the suspension settle before you took a measurement?
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