eljohn46,I understand what you're saying. I didn't expect the Tiguan with the diesel to have the same gas milage as a Prius. But VW was estimating 35mpg average for the diesel Tiguan. That's good enough and is 40% higher than the base model gas engine Tiguan. I know there are tradeoffs with body weight and the added luxuries I want versus the gas milage. The weight of the Tiguan is about 50% higher than the Prius but the gas milage is only about 20% less than the Prius.
That all said I would rather have a Toyota. But they haven't brought anything radical to market regarding mpg other than the Prius.
eljohn46,Smelley diesels is the old technology. I am referring to the new clean burn diesel engines which beat even the hybrids as far as emmissions per gallon. I don't favor any one technology. Just what leaves the smallest carbon footprint (but does the job). Oil is only one small part of the Green Equation. All of those extra parts (electric motors, batteries, etc.) in a hybrid have a carbon cost in their manufacturing and later disposal. I am a fan of anything that leads us out of the age of dependence on more oil. This can be done by driving a car with double the gas mileage, a hybrid car, etc. Right now hydrogen fuel cell technology isn't there. It takes as much carbon emitting energy to produce the hydrogen as a normal car would use.
emissions per gallon? The cleanest diesels are Tier 2 Bin 5 rated. That's ULEV-II which is what 95%? of gasoline cars achieve. The Prius is Tier 2 Bin3 and the Civic Hybrid is Tier 2 Bin 2. They both do not have evaporative emissions (gasoline vapour emissions). Diesel is more energy dense than gasoline that's why you can use less to go further.Smelley diesels is the old technology. I am referring to the new clean burn diesel engines which beat even the hybrids as far as emmissions per gallon. I don't favor any one technology. Just what leaves the smallest carbon footprint (but does the job). Oil is only one small part of the Green Equation. All of those extra parts (electric motors, batteries, etc.) in a hybrid have a carbon cost in their manufacturing and later disposal. I am a fan of anything that leads us out of the age of dependence on more oil. This can be done by driving a car with double the gas mileage, a hybrid car, etc. Right now hydrogen fuel cell technology isn't there. It takes as much carbon emitting energy to produce the hydrogen as a normal car would use.
eljohn46,To Reliability and Tideland Prius
Let me fist say I’m not an automotive engineer / expert and don’t want to try to impress anyone with my vast knowledge because it’s not that vast. These are just the opinions of a regular person. As far as the emissions per gallon comment, I saw that in a comparison but can’t find it again so I can’t defend it.
I’m not sold on any one technology. I am referring to cars that meet “all” of “my” needs, which would be different from anyone else’s. My Criteria: great fuel economy, luxury, small SUV or something with a cargo area that works (I’m a home builder). It is the last 2 that are difficult to find in combo with the “great gas mileage”. If it wasn’t for the space requirements I wouldn’t look past a Prius. But all the great gas mileage doesn’t mean anything if I can’t do what I need to do. I have never owned a diesel before.
I am going with the new 2009 Jetta Sportswagen. The latest news on this car includes:
1. Clean burn diesel. It is not the old technology that Reliabilty is referring to. One of the reasons fossil fuel cars pollute is they are inefficient and burn only a small percentage of the fuel during combustion. This new engine atomizes and combusts completely and no Urea injection is needed in the catalytic reduction system. As far as the particulate filter referred to, I have to go with “only time will tell”. That willingness to test it out is no different from all of those who were willing to give the hybrids a shot with their vast new gear of electric motors, charging systems, and batteries. I can’t wait until the mythical “Perfect solution” comes out to buy a new car.
2. Current fuel rating is 31 City / 41 Highway. The actual from owners has been 38/44 with as high as 40/60.
3. November 20, 2008, the 2009 Jetta TDI clean diesel won the 2009 Green Car of the Year. Green Car Journal chose the 2009 Jetta TDI clean diesel from the top 5 green cars as the best-of-the-best and awarded it their 2009 Green Car of the Year.
4. The Jetta TDI was also awarded the highest safety rating available.
5. The IRS has approved the Jetta TDI for a $1300 Federal Income Tax Credit (Advanced Lean Burn Technology Motor Vehicle).
6. Most important of all, it is a cool looking car with nice luxury. This of course proves you guys are arguing with a shallow, insensitive moron incapable of making an intelligent decision.
4agetercel,meh i like diesels, theyre loud and say what you want about them, but 40mpg in the city sounds good to me, at a fraction of the cost of a hybrid, a nice 2002 Jetta would be cool with me
Diesel doesnt smell that bad
Quit smokeing then, Diesel smoke trails behind you when youre driving, not shooting up into the cabin, and if it does get the exaust leak fixed, you gotta die some day i guess, just because theyre not the cleanest burning things out there, the amount of things that pollute the air out there and youre rippin on the diesel engine,4agetercel,
Yeah, like cigarette smoke, it doesn't smell bad! Diesel Soot and Cigarette Smoke have one thing in common, Lung Cancer!
ULSD has been required by law for all on-road applications for a couple years now. Refineries produce three times more 15ppm and sulfur and under distillate than the 15-500ppm and 500ppm distillate combined. It was scarce back when CA was the only state the required it, but it's common now.Clean Diesel Fuel is scarce and expensive, while Dirty Diesel Fuel is abundant but more expensive than gasoline negates any advantage diesel has over gasoline.
thaharlequin,ULSD has been required by law for all on-road applications for a couple years now. Refineries produce three times more 15ppm and sulfur and under distillate than the 15-500ppm and 500ppm distillate combined. It was scarce back when CA was the only state the required it, but it's common now.
I live CA too and every station I've been to from Ojai to Sand Diego sells ULSD.thaharlequin,
I live in California and it still isn't that common. If you listen to whats coming out of the Detroit Auto show, it sure isn't about diesels(Clean or dirty)? Clean Diesels should be reserved for trucks,Tractors, and Heavy Equipment and I think that's where the future is for Diesels. EVs, PHEVs, and Hybrids are the future and thats what the Big 3 are retooling for to stay competitive.
Furthermore, as you can see, ULSD production is 3.341mbpd, about six times more than 15-500ppm diesel and 500+ppm diesel. Given that it at best distillates beside ULSD only make up 20% of production, and most of that is used for off-road use, it's rare to see anything besides ULSD.Wikipedia said:Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) (also spelled “sulphur”) is a term used to describe a standard for defining diesel fuel with substantially lowered sulfur contents. As of 2006, almost all of the petroleum-based diesel fuel available in Europe and North America is of a ULSD type.
The big 3 were just pathetic, but that's another subject for another day. :thumbsup:Wikipedia said:On June 1, 2006, U.S. refiners were required to produce 80% of their annual output as ULSD (15 ppm), and petroleum marketers and retailers were required to label diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and kerosone pumps with EPA-authorized language disclosing fuel type and sulfur content. Other requirements effective June 1, 2006, including EPA-authorized language on Product Transfer Documents and sulfur-content testing standards, are designed to prevent misfueling, contamination by higher-sulfur fuels and liability issues. The EPA deadline for industry compliance to a 15 ppm sulfur content was originally set for July 15, 2006 for distribution terminals, and by September 1, 2006 for retail. But on November 8, 2005, the deadline was extended by 45 days to September 1, 2006 for terminals and October 15, 2006 for retail. In California, the extension was not granted and followed the original schedule. As of December, 2006, the ULSD standard has been in effect according to the amended schedule, and compliance at retail locations was reported to be in place.