Toyota Nation Forum banner
41 - 60 of 271 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Hi Mike,

The problem is that most of us don't care if a car can go a million miles if
you keep on replacing parts. Most of us just want cars that will go 100,000
miles without replacing any parts. That is why the imports are winning.


"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Several years ago the NYC Taxi Commission permitted a three year test to
> judge FWD cars and minivans for suitability as taxis in the city. Taxi
> companies bought domestic and foreign brands for use as taxis, hoping to
> same money. Within three months they were showing up in repair shops.
> Within two years nearly 90% had been taken out of service. At the end of
> the test only RWD vehicles were allowed to be use as Taxis in NYC..
>
> The average NYC CV Taxi has on 300,000,000 miles on the clock and some are
> run up to a million miles before being replaced. Many actually start out
> as former police vehicles..When I still owned my fleet service business
> Ford had around 80% of the corporate fleet business on the east cost. Our
> meticulous maintenance records over many years showed that Ford vehicles
> were the most cost effect to own, long term, based on the cost of
> acquisition, insurance, maintenance, repair, parts and vehicle replacement
> costs. No other manufacture even came close in that regard. I was that
> experience that led me to switch for Lexus V8s I had been buying to the
> Lincoln LS V8 in 1999. The kicker was I saved nearly enough money
> switching that I was able to buy my first in a series of Mustang GT
> convertibles ;)
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "joe schmoe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:55:49 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>

>
>> Don't count the Big 3 out, just recall how Ford turned around in the
>> 1990's.
>>
>>
>> PS When the Police and Cabbies start driving Toyota's and Suzuki's
>> I'll begin to accept that Japanese quality extends beyond "initial
>> quality".

>
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 18:38:13 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The average NYC CV Taxi has on 300,000,000 miles on the clock and some are
>run up to a million miles before being replaced.


Wow! The /average/ on the fleet is 300 Million Miles, yet some are
run up to 1 Million Miles before replacement? I'm going to leave that
statement alone right there without any further clarification...

Vg'f abg snve gb orng hc ba gur unaqvpnccrq naq gebyyf. Jul pbzzvg
zheqre jura gurl'er nyernql qbvat fhpu n tbbq wbo ng fhvpvqr?

--<< Bruce >>--
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #43 ·
"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:woudnf9xI[email protected]
> I'm cross-posting this in alt.autos.gm with the hope that GM will
> improve its quality of manufacturing and avoid bankruptcy.
>


So...you're saying you think GM's exec's in Detroit are more likely to read
this here, in this NG, than in their own paper?
Face it. You're just another dirt bag trying to stir up shit in a GM group.

Dave
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #44 ·
"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Smoking that loco weed again eh? LOL
>
>
> mike hunt
>
> "dizzy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Top-posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:
>>
>> (top posting corrected)
>>
>>>"dizzy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Top posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:
>>>>
>>>> (top posting corrected)
>>>>
>>>>>GM and Ford still sell for more than any other
>>>>>manufacture and more than all of the import brands combined.
>>>>
>>>> Also, what's the trend of Ford and GM's market share, "Mike"?
>>>>
>>>The tend has been down.but GM and Ford still sell more vehicles than all
>>>of
>>>Japanese brands combined. The three domestics sell more the 57% of all
>>>the
>>>vehicle sold in the US, whether you believe that or not makes no
>>>difference
>>>in that fact.

>>
>> Idiot. You're changing your story to "in the US" and also to include
>> "the three domestics".
>>

>
>


OK. Most of us don't have a lot of time for our cars to be in the shop any
more. That's why I own a Toyota. Sure I could own a GM, but by the time I
had 50,000 miles on my old S-10 it was already nickel-and-diming me on
repairs, and seemed to be in the shop as much as it was out.

Charles of Kankakee
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:49:02 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>That may be your opinion but certainly not what we saw in my former fleet
>service business. We serviced thousands of vehicles monthly in our shops
>locate in six eastern states. No particular brand stands out from the
>others in dependability. We serviced nearly every brand of vehicle.


<Big SniP>

Just a note of warning to you folks in the GM and Ford groups, and
to the new people at alt.autos.toyota :

Mike Hunt <Beavis> "Heh heh heh, he said My Cunt!" </Beavis> is our
resident nym-shifting Troll. Take everything he says with a pound or
two of salt, a pinch simply won't do.

In his eyes the Domestic auto makers can do no wrong, but for some
unknown reason he hangs out in a Toyota newsgroup haranguing all the
Toyota owners... And every single time he tries to trot out "facts"
about his background or experience in the car biz, or "facts" about
how wonderful domestic cars are, they have been systematically proven
to be bigger whoppers than Jon Lovitz and his "liar" sketches on
Saturday Night Live.

"Yeah, yeah, that's it! That's the ticket..."

He's owned "The Biggest Ford Dealer in the state... or "The Biggest
Dodge Dealer in..." but he won't give us any real names to verify who
he really is. And even the people here who are in the car business in
that neck of the country have never heard of him, or anyone with an
experience set approaching the one he's pawned off on us.

His "facts" shift wildly between each telling because he forgot
which lies he told last month. I've given up trying to keep up with
them all myself, but someone here was keeping a list.

He even tries to invent BS for his multiple screen names, like he's
using one of "the many computers in his palatial mansion", or "one of
the employee computers" at his sprawling office complex after hours,
all set up with different user names, or he's "posting from his
Vacation House in Key West Florida", but everything comes from the
same Windows home computer running Outlook Express, and a Penn
Teledata ptd.net dial-up modem pool connection in Pennsylvania.

One time he teased us with a street address (the hundreds block
only) for his alleged vacation house in Key West, but someone checked
- the street existed, but if there was a house at that hundred-block
address it would be about 1/2 mile offshore...

Reader Beware.

--<< Bruce >>--

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Hairy wrote:
> "Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> I'm cross-posting this in alt.autos.gm with the hope that GM will
>> improve its quality of manufacturing and avoid bankruptcy.
>>

>
> So...you're saying you think GM's exec's in Detroit are more likely
> to read this here, in this NG, than in their own paper?
> Face it. You're just another dirt bag trying to stir up shit in a GM
> group.
>
> Dave


Yeah, like all cross-posters, he's doing a public service ROFLOL.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Mike Hunter wrote:
>Both GM and Ford assembly workers have quality group meetings and have for
>years. In addition they can stop the line as well by simply hitting the
>stop button, located at each station. ;)


But there's a difference between being able to stop the line and being
able to stop the line. Companies like Toyota and the old IBM (I don't
know about them now) would have infinite tolerance it, but most imply
there's a limit to it. With the latter my company tries to fool
management with elaborate nonsense that essentially tells them to slow
down production.

Ford and GM won't become like Toyota or Honda until most of the
executives have worked on the production line.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Adam wrote:

>Toyota could never put GM out of business.


But GM could.

>There are too many proud Americans that buy GMs in some form..


Why? GM has no pride in America or Americans and hasn't created even
one new net job in the U.S. in 20-30 years.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #49 ·
razz wrote:

>Another idiot that thinks Jap scrap is better quality. For your info they
>are no better than anyone else in quality. I was a mechanic at a jap dealer
>and they line up for repairs just as much as a domestic dealer.


That's not what internal GM documents from the early 1990s said, the
newest ones I know about.

Honda, Toyota, and maybe Subaru have made the overall Japanese quality
tally better than Ford's or GM's, while Suzuki, Isuzu, and maybe Nissan
have been nothing special.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Mike Hunter wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]svr25.news.prodigy.net...


>>GM and Ford would probably both be better off by declaring bankruptcy,
>>and starting with fresh faces and ideas.


>What makes you think that? GM and Ford still sell for more than any other
>manufacture and more than all of the import brands combined. ;)


And in 1985, Kmart was much larger than Wal-mart, while today it's 80%
smaller.

What reason does GM have to exist? In other words, what can GM do
better than anybody else, other than lobby the U.S. government for a
bailout? Quality is good but not the best. Costs are high (even
excluding health care and pension costs). Hours to produce each
vehicle are high. Car designs are bad (but trucks are good).
Corporate leadership is poor and clueless.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #51 ·
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]

>
>>>GM and Ford would probably both be better off by declaring bankruptcy,
>>>and starting with fresh faces and ideas.

>
>>What makes you think that? GM and Ford still sell for more than any
>>other
>>manufacture and more than all of the import brands combined. ;)

>
> And in 1985, Kmart was much larger than Wal-mart, while today it's 80%
> smaller.
>
> What reason does GM have to exist? In other words, what can GM do
> better than anybody else, other than lobby the U.S. government for a
> bailout? Quality is good but not the best. Costs are high (even
> excluding health care and pension costs). Hours to produce each
> vehicle are high. Car designs are bad (but trucks are good).



Trucks are shit too. We see 4-year old chevys and GMCs rusted through
around here.

Ever see a Canyon up close? Plain, ugly, crude.


> Corporate leadership is poor and clueless.
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #52 ·
"Oscar_Lives" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s72...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]

>>
>>>>GM and Ford would probably both be better off by declaring bankruptcy,
>>>>and starting with fresh faces and ideas.

>>
>>>What makes you think that? GM and Ford still sell for more than any
>>>other
>>>manufacture and more than all of the import brands combined. ;)

>>
>> And in 1985, Kmart was much larger than Wal-mart, while today it's 80%
>> smaller.
>>
>> What reason does GM have to exist? In other words, what can GM do
>> better than anybody else, other than lobby the U.S. government for a
>> bailout? Quality is good but not the best. Costs are high (even
>> excluding health care and pension costs). Hours to produce each
>> vehicle are high. Car designs are bad (but trucks are good).

>
>
> Trucks are shit too. We see 4-year old chevys and GMCs rusted through
> around here.
>
> Ever see a Canyon up close? Plain, ugly, crude.
>
>
>> Corporate leadership is poor and clueless.
>>

>
>


I owned a 95 S-10. It started rusting on the GAS TANK before I'd had it a
year. Hinge pin on the driver's door, too.

Charles
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #53 ·
"James C. Reeves" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >I quess you never heard of Hondas ongoing brake problems have you ;)
> >
> > mike hunt
> >

> Or the tranny problems with the Honda Pilot/Acura MDX that cost over $7K

to
> fix....
>
>


Nobody is claiming that Hondas and Toyotas are perfect. But they do a good
job of making the owners happy with the cars.

One of my co-workers bought the revamped Odyssey in '99. The model with the
"problem" transmission that was being blathered about a while back in this
NG. At 97K miles, the transmission started to slip. He took it to his
Honda dealer to get it looked at. Honda replaced it. No charge. He hasn't
had any other problems. He's really happy with it.

Our close friends, around the corner, are moving towards an all-Honda fleet.
They've got a Civic that's 13 years old with 200K miles or so and has had NO
significant repairs whatsoever. They've bought two other Hondas used and
one new. No problems among all 4 cars.

I'm up to three Toyotas, now. Love 'em. No problems at all, so far. The
Toyota dealer treats me like visiting royalty if I take a car in for routine
maintenance. They're not cheap but they're thorough. I've purchased two
cars, one new and one used from the same dealer. Got decent treatment on
the first car and a reallly good deal on the second. Maybe they're really
into repeat business. I got my third Toyota used in a private sale. That
guy bought another Toyota to replace it.

I had an Aerostar for a little over 2 years. It not the most expensive
vehicle to purchase that I've ever owned but its lifecycle cost was far and
away the worst I've ever dealt with. It was unavailable for use 45 days or
more while I owned it. The dealer servcie was almost as bad as the
treatment I got from Ford HQ.

Buy a Ford, if you like, Chevy, whatever. We don't care. Just don't go
whining about imports in the import groups. We're happy with our cars.
Some of us are really happy with our cars because we've had horrible
experiences with other makes of car.

[newsgroups trimmed]
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Knotty wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:10:43 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>
>>Both GM and Ford assembly workers have quality group meetings and have for
>>years.

>
>
> That's only so they can sit and talk about what they absolutely need to
> do. Think bare minimum.

and how many have you sat in on?
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I defy you to prove where I ever said I owned any business other than my
former fleet service business. I never said I owned a dealership, let alone
a Dodge of Ford dealership, that I ever gave the address of my home in Key
West, that I ever said domestic can do not wrong, or that Toyota did not
make good vehicles, or any of the other fantasies in your post. Every
statistical fact I post can be verified by anybody willing to do the search.
Only a fool would post their actual address on the web as do you. What will
you post next your SS number? Your are weird LOL

mike hunt


"Bruce L. Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:49:02 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>That may be your opinion but certainly not what we saw in my former fleet

service business. We serviced thousands of vehicles monthly in our shops
locate in six eastern states. No particular brand stands out from the
others in dependability. We serviced nearly every brand of vehicle.
Corporate fleets generally keep the vehicles they use, as tools in their
business, for five years or 300K WOF because of federal corporate tax
deprecation laws. We saw little difference among brands in terms of
longevity when the vehicles were given the proper maintenance such as we
provided. The only real difference among brands is style and the price of
accusation, insurance, maintenance and parts. Any vehicle one buys today,
domestic or foreign, well easily last to 200K or more is given decent
maintenance. As a consumer who keeps their vehicle till it dies, one should
be more concerned about the price of the car and its parts than the need for
them, since they all need to be repaired at some point. As to the chance
of your friend seeing more of particular brand, is like asking someone in
the Bronx Zoo if they see more pigeons or penguins. One must remember GM
has five times as many vehicles on the road and Ford four times as many as
any other brand. Since Toyota arrived in the US in 1958, the past few years
is the only time it has sold more than 1,000,000 vehicles annually, while GM
and Ford sold more than half of ALL of the up to 19,000,000 vehicles sold
annually in the US over the same period. Even today GM and Ford sell more
trucks alone than does Toyota, Lexus, and Scion sells cars and trucks
combined today.



mike hunt

>
> Just a note of warning to you folks in the GM and Ford groups, and
> to the new people at alt.autos.toyota :
>
> Mike Hunt <Beavis> "Heh heh heh, he said My Cunt!" </Beavis> is our
> resident nym-shifting Troll. Take everything he says with a pound or
> two of salt, a pinch simply won't do.
>
> In his eyes the Domestic auto makers can do no wrong, but for some
> unknown reason he hangs out in a Toyota newsgroup haranguing all the
> Toyota owners... And every single time he tries to trot out "facts"
> about his background or experience in the car biz, or "facts" about
> how wonderful domestic cars are, they have been systematically proven
> to be bigger whoppers than Jon Lovitz and his "liar" sketches on
> Saturday Night Live.
>
> "Yeah, yeah, that's it! That's the ticket..."
>
> He's owned "The Biggest Ford Dealer in the state... or "The Biggest
> Dodge Dealer in..." but he won't give us any real names to verify who
> he really is. And even the people here who are in the car business in
> that neck of the country have never heard of him, or anyone with an
> experience set approaching the one he's pawned off on us.
>
> His "facts" shift wildly between each telling because he forgot
> which lies he told last month. I've given up trying to keep up with
> them all myself, but someone here was keeping a list.
>
> He even tries to invent BS for his multiple screen names, like he's
> using one of "the many computers in his palatial mansion", or "one of
> the employee computers" at his sprawling office complex after hours,
> all set up with different user names, or he's "posting from his
> Vacation House in Key West Florida", but everything comes from the
> same Windows home computer running Outlook Express, and a Penn
> Teledata ptd.net dial-up modem pool connection in Pennsylvania.
>
> One time he teased us with a street address (the hundreds block
> only) for his alleged vacation house in Key West, but someone checked
> - the street existed, but if there was a house at that hundred-block
> address it would be about 1/2 mile offshore...
>
> Reader Beware.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>
> --
> Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
> Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
> 5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
> Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #56 ·
You forgot to say in my opinion, since the millions of the folks buying
those millions of GM vehicles today disagree with your assesment. ;)

mike hunt


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]

>
>>>GM and Ford would probably both be better off by declaring bankruptcy,
>>>and starting with fresh faces and ideas.

>
>>What makes you think that? GM and Ford still sell for more than any
>>other
>>manufacture and more than all of the import brands combined. ;)

>
> And in 1985, Kmart was much larger than Wal-mart, while today it's 80%
> smaller.
>
> What reason does GM have to exist? In other words, what can GM do
> better than anybody else, other than lobby the U.S. government for a
> bailout? Quality is good but not the best. Costs are high (even
> excluding health care and pension costs). Hours to produce each
> vehicle are high. Car designs are bad (but trucks are good).
> Corporate leadership is poor and clueless.
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #57 ·
You had problem with your GM vehicle therefore all GM vehicles are bad,
right? LOL


mike hunt


"Charles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Smoking that loco weed again eh? LOL
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>> "dizzy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> Top-posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:
>>>
>>> (top posting corrected)
>>>
>>>>"dizzy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Top posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> (top posting corrected)
>>>>>
>>>>>>GM and Ford still sell for more than any other
>>>>>>manufacture and more than all of the import brands combined.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, what's the trend of Ford and GM's market share, "Mike"?
>>>>>
>>>>The tend has been down.but GM and Ford still sell more vehicles than all
>>>>of
>>>>Japanese brands combined. The three domestics sell more the 57% of all
>>>>the
>>>>vehicle sold in the US, whether you believe that or not makes no
>>>>difference
>>>>in that fact.
>>>
>>> Idiot. You're changing your story to "in the US" and also to include
>>> "the three domestics".
>>>

>>
>>

>
> OK. Most of us don't have a lot of time for our cars to be in the shop
> any more. That's why I own a Toyota. Sure I could own a GM, but by the
> time I had 50,000 miles on my old S-10 it was already nickel-and-diming me
> on repairs, and seemed to be in the shop as much as it was out.
>
> Charles of Kankakee
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #58 ·
"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> The tend has been down.but GM and Ford still sell more vehicles than all

of
> Japanese brands combined. The three domestics sell more the 57% of all

the
> vehicle sold in the US, whether you believe that or not makes no

difference
> in that fact.
>
> mike hunt
>


So, with all those sales, how's Ford doing?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/business/06ford.html
Ford's Debt Is Lowered Two More Steps
By MICHELINE MAYNARD
Published: January 6, 2006
DEARBORN, Mich., Jan. 5 - Even before Ford Motor introduces the turnaround
plan it is calling The Way Forward, Standard & Poor's clearly thinks that it
may not be.

S.& P. put Ford's debt rating two notches further into junk on Thursday,
less than a month after a similar move at General Motors.


I'll leave GM's prospects to your imagination.



>
> "dizzy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Top posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:
> >
> > (top posting corrected)
> >
> >>GM and Ford still sell for more than any other
> >>manufacture

> >
> >
> > Also, what's the trend of Ford and GM's market share, "Mike"?
> >

>
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #59 ·
The point was those CV hold up better than ANY of the FWD vehicles tested
for use in sever Taxi service, foreign or domestic. Any vehicle on the
market today can easily run to 200K trouble free, given minimal maintenance.
I own a half dozen old cars that are in great condition with anywhere for
110K to 300K on the clock.

mike hunt


"Art" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0pkvf.3378$%[email protected]
> Hi Mike,
>
> The problem is that most of us don't care if a car can go a million miles
> if you keep on replacing parts. Most of us just want cars that will go
> 100,000 miles without replacing any parts. That is why the imports are
> winning.
>
>
> "Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Several years ago the NYC Taxi Commission permitted a three year test to
>> judge FWD cars and minivans for suitability as taxis in the city. Taxi
>> companies bought domestic and foreign brands for use as taxis, hoping to
>> same money. Within three months they were showing up in repair shops.
>> Within two years nearly 90% had been taken out of service. At the end of
>> the test only RWD vehicles were allowed to be use as Taxis in NYC..
>>
>> The average NYC CV Taxi has on 300,000,000 miles on the clock and some
>> are run up to a million miles before being replaced. Many actually start
>> out as former police vehicles..When I still owned my fleet service
>> business Ford had around 80% of the corporate fleet business on the east
>> cost. Our meticulous maintenance records over many years showed that
>> Ford vehicles were the most cost effect to own, long term, based on the
>> cost of acquisition, insurance, maintenance, repair, parts and vehicle
>> replacement costs. No other manufacture even came close in that regard.
>> I was that experience that led me to switch for Lexus V8s I had been
>> buying to the Lincoln LS V8 in 1999. The kicker was I saved nearly
>> enough money switching that I was able to buy my first in a series of
>> Mustang GT convertibles ;)
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Hum Bullshit!

Currently Daimler Chrysler assembles all of their Dodge RAM trucks in
Mexico. The so called new "Hemi" engine is also assembled in Mexico...

Would you care to check your facts and maybe restate your position?

"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> The only Toyota truck made in the US is their small truck that is
> assembled in the GM/Toyota plant in California. GM, Ford and Dodge make
> the vast majority of the trucks they sell in the US, in the US of American
> parts.
>
> mike hunt
>
> "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Adam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> Toyota could never put GM out of business. There are too many proud
>>> americans that buy GMs in some form..
>>>

>>
>> Never say Never. Lots of proud Americans are buying Japanese. Especially
>> when they find out their Japanese trucks are made in the U.S., while
>> their American ones are actually made in Canada or Mexico.
>>

>
>
 
41 - 60 of 271 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top