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I ran into Mark's videos by accident. I have to say he is one of the best reviewers of cars out there. I respect his opinion more than many so called experts on the Internet. And to tell you how much of a real car guy he is, he backs up his rhetoric with his wallet/actions. While the Toyota 86 wasn't the complete package, he bought one to show his support to Toyota for what they were trying to do. How many of you have voted with your wallets? To expect Toyota to dump tons of money into developing a sports car from scratch with the undeniable shrinking market for sports cars is foolish.
If people can live with M3s and M4s, I can live with the car as is though my biggest qualm about it is that it doesn't offer three pedals.
Mark of Savagegeese mentioned he thinks a manual is a possibility in the future for these cars.

Mark also said this platform is likely going to be even better than the M3/4 platforms. His reasoning is the M versions were all built up from a chasis which was never designed as a sports car first. This Supra and the Z4 have been fully developed as a sports car platform first and foremost.
 

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I have owned both Supras and Z4s . The older Supra motor was used in racing in the old Firestone Firehawk Sports Car Series with none other than Dan Gurney. That series of motors are still running and some are putting out 1000 hp at the wheels using big turbos. The cars were considered quite heavy but had double wishbone suspension and 50/50 weight distribution. So it was actually quite competitive.
Toyota probably needed a more EPA friendly design and the BMW straight sixes have been undergoing continuous development all these intervening years. It is a silky smooth light weight design. The short block is very light. However back in the 80s when Porsche made well under 300 hp a well driven Supra with a boost controller could have a lot of fun at track events and the reliability was so very good, except for the brakes which were cheap and easy to work on.
Nostalgia is fine. But it has no place in the current discussion about the latest gen Supra. The videos I posted has answers to everything people are complaining about and speculating on. Mark actually talked to Tada San. He said the cost to resurrect an inline 6 would have cost Toyota $300 million just for the engine development. It had nothing to do with meeting EPA standards. Toyota has no inline 6 period. And all of the tooling at the factories that once produced the inline 6s are gone.

In addition, Mark said Tada San said Toyota had a lot of input over the engine. The engine is a B58. Since I'm over on the BMW forums a lot, I've watched the chatter over the B58. Lots of people are impressed with the motor. Tada San's team tore into the motor and were satisfied with the design and components used. They did provide input on future updates/upgrades to be implemented.

The same goes with the chassis. Tada San said they were a signicant part of the design team.

Frankly, I feel Toyota's version has the leg up for me being a fixed hard top. If I were in the market for a $50k sports car, the Supra would be high on the list and may get my pick over the M2. This is coming from an owner of an E82 135i.
 

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Nostalgia is fine. But it has no place in the current discussion about the latest gen Supra. The videos I posted has answers to everything people are complaining about and speculating on. Mark actually talked to Tada San. He said the cost to resurrect an inline 6 would have cost Toyota $300 million just for the engine development. It had nothing to do with meeting EPA standards. Toyota has no inline 6 period. And all of the tooling at the factories that once produced the inline 6s are gone.

In addition, Mark said Tada San said Toyota had a lot of input over the engine. The engine is a B58. Since I'm over on the BMW forums a lot, I've watched the chatter over the B58. Lots of people are impressed with the motor. Tada San's team tore into the motor and were satisfied with the design and components used. They did provide input on future updates/upgrades to be implemented.

The same goes with the chassis. Tada San said they were a signicant part of the design team.

Frankly, I feel Toyota's version has the leg up for me being a fixed hard top. If I were in the market for a $50k sports car, the Supra would be high on the list and may get my pick over the M2. This is coming from an owner of an E82 135i.
Its not just nostalgia, it is the very reason why the Supra name is so Iconic, and badly missed by those who knew them. I actually owned one and enjoyed bothering Porsches. So do not be deciding what is appropriate here for me to say and post
Re-read my post please. I am trying to agree with you! Not eveything on the internet is a complaint. I stated how that B58 has been undergoing development all these years since and is so smooth and light. And yes you get a Turbo six for the same price as a BMW four. Calm down, The Supra is going to be a blast.
 

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CRESSIDA!!!
1984 Toyota Cressida
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Nostalgia is fine. But it has no place in the current discussion about the latest gen Supra. The videos I posted has answers to everything people are complaining about and speculating on. Mark actually talked to Tada San. He said the cost to resurrect an inline 6 would have cost Toyota $300 million just for the engine development. It had nothing to do with meeting EPA standards. Toyota has no inline 6 period. And all of the tooling at the factories that once produced the inline 6s are gone.

In addition, Mark said Tada San said Toyota had a lot of input over the engine. The engine is a B58. Since I'm over on the BMW forums a lot, I've watched the chatter over the B58. Lots of people are impressed with the motor. Tada San's team tore into the motor and were satisfied with the design and components used. They did provide input on future updates/upgrades to be implemented.

The same goes with the chassis. Tada San said they were a signicant part of the design team.

Frankly, I feel Toyota's version has the leg up for me being a fixed hard top. If I were in the market for a $50k sports car, the Supra would be high on the list and may get my pick over the M2. This is coming from an owner of an E82 135i.
Newsflash, they didn't need an I6. They have their own very capable engines and platforms they could've used. They easily could've used the LC engines and platform for the new Supra, which would've had precedent seeing how earlier Supra's shared a lot of with the SC/Soarer. But no. Tada San is quickly becoming the worst engineer at Toyota. He's the same fool who thinks the warmed over, slow Subaru they gave us is a work of art. It's obvious he has no faith in his own company to build a real sports car, and instead outsources all the work to inferior companies. If you want to believe their BS that it would "cost too much" to build it on their own, then it's curious how they can seemingly build the LF-A with no regard to cost, or the LC or RC. And if they want to give the excuse "they're too heavy and not good enough", then they're admitting those cars aren't good period, and we know that not to be the case.

This car is a BMW and is the worst car to ever wear a Toyota badge, other than the JDM rebadged Chevy Cavalier. It's quite frankly embarrassing. The world's largest and most profitable car company outsourcing their cars to a company known for making overpriced junk. Maybe they can get Jeep to build the new Land Cruiser. This hunk of junk was sneered at during Toyota Fest and didn't get anywhere near the reaction they wanted. These pigs will be worth scrap value in 7 years when the BMW electronics go haywire and cost more than a new Corolla to fix, and I can't wait for it to blow up in their face. No Supra is better than this junker.
 

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This car is a BMW and is the worst car to ever wear a Toyota badge, other than the JDM rebadged Chevy Cavalier. It's quite frankly embarrassing. The world's largest and most profitable car company outsourcing their cars to a company known for making overpriced junk.
I am not disagreeing with your basic premise but financially, BMW is second only to Toyota in company value. BMW is big and has a very different business model, which creates much more profit per car sold. This will be interesting. If you are right Tada San could do serious damage.
 

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straight cash homie
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I am not disagreeing with your basic premise but financially, BMW is second only to Toyota in company value. BMW is big and has a very different business model, which creates much more profit per car sold. This will be interesting. If you are right Tada San could do serious damage.
Damage? For Toyota enthusiasts, he has helped Akio Toyoda bring back cars that aren't just appliances (I suppose). We've discussed this here before, the last president before Akio took over was more of a bean counter than anything, so most of the vehicles coming out of ToMoCo were 'boring'

https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/toyota-president-declares-no-more-boring-cars
 

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straight cash homie
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Toyota Dealer Asks $100K For Supra Launch Edition Because Capitalism

https://www.motor1.com/news/359559/toyota-supra-launch-edition-markup
And there’s really nothing Toyota can do to stop it.

Customers can't wait to get their hands on the new Toyota Supra – and for good reason. It's a fantastic road car, and tons of fun on the track (as we found out firsthand). But with the long-awaited Supra finally making its way to dealerships in the U.S., some are taking advantage of the hype.

Jerry's Toyota in Baltimore, Maryland is asking $100,000 for a Supra Launch Edition. That's right, $100,000. Granted, Toyota limits the Launch Edition to just 1,500 examples globally, and offers it with unique trim pieces like red mirror caps – but with a manufacturers' suggested retail price of $55,250 for the Launch Edition model, that's nearly double the price of the Supra from the factory. We've reached out to Jerry's Toyota's general manager, but haven't heard back.

Problem is, Toyota can do very little to deter these massive dealer markups. Speaking with Nancy Hubbell, Senior Manager of Product Communications for Toyota, she notes that the dealer sets the final transaction price. The only thing Toyota can do is monitor those sale prices and, "consult with dealers as necessary."

"We recognize that there is a lot of excitement about the return of the Supra and that customers are anxious to be among the first to own the new model," Hubbell notes in a statement. "Toyota has established a manufacturers’ suggested retail price (MSRP) that is, as it sounds, a retail price suggested by the manufacturer."

"Because our dealers are independent business owners, the final transaction price will be the result of interactions between the customer and the dealer. Our sales group has consulted with our regional offices to ask them to be aware of transaction prices and consult with dealers as necessary."

But markups such as this aren't uncommon. Dodge attempted to deter dealers from overcharging for the Challenger Demon when new, and instead, dealers auctioned off the right to buy a Demon allocation rather than tack that price onto $86,000 muscle car itself. The Jeep Gladiator, as well, currently sees markups as high as $20,000 in some cases. And as is the case with Toyota, Dodge and Jeep really can't do anything to stop these private dealerships from doing business as they please.

The solution? Shop around – or simply wait. Not all dealerships will charge exorbitant prices for the Supra Launch Edition. And though the standard Supra isn't as "exclusive," per se, it costs just $49,990, and offers the same turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six producing 335 horsepower (250 kilowatts) as the Launch Edition, as well as many of the same options.
 

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Newbie One Kanobi
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I am not disagreeing with your basic premise but financially, BMW is second only to Toyota in company value. BMW is big and has a very different business model, which creates much more profit per car sold. This will be interesting. If you are right Tada San could do serious damage.
I agree with you on some levels but you can argue these days BMW is becoming too mainstream. They chase after markets real or perceived and answer questions that no one asked. What I mean by that is they are saturating their line up. And their cars are "softened." They still lead in some areas but it's ironic Toyota is trying to be more bold in design and BMWs' are forgettable. I get they've been understated for awhile but it's becoming very derivative design language. Boring!!
 

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straight cash homie
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