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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was shocked yesterday while changing my dad's 99' Avalon sparkplugs. I looked over to the fan and radiator. Guess what I saw on top of the two, the GM sign. Yes the GM sign. My question is, is Toyota hiding something? Is Toyota using parts from the American giant General Motors?
 

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Toyota Fanboy
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I sure hope not but it wouldnt surprise me.
Toyota and GM are business partners and they jointly own a factory in California (NUMMI). GM has had Toyota build some vehicles for them (Geo Prizm, Pontiac Vibe), so maybe.
All I know is that if the day ever comes that it goes the other way and Toyota's trucks end up being nothing more than redbaged GM trucks, Im done...
 

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That Acura Guy
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The Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix share parts so I wouldnt be suprised if Toyota put some other GM parts on thier cars. It really does suck if they do that.:disappoin
 

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Ok that sucks big, might explain why initial quality seems to have gone down. Now i wanna know which models are made at this joint plant....
 

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Toyota Matrix
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The only vehicals I know comming out of NUMMI are Corolla,Matrix,Vibe,Tacoma, and an export model to japan called the Vitz, a Toyota name plate. On earlier model corolla's,I beleive 92-97 models, they had Delco alternators on them that were junk, replaced a whole lot of them under warrenty with NipponDenso alternators. I did not realize that TMMK had anthing to do with G.M., as far as I know it's wholely owened & operated by Toyota.
 

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Mad Scientist
94 scepter coupe
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look at it this way i'd rather toyota be partners with gm then ford.

ford is the one who stopped the production of the rx7 and then ford has most of it's cars on life support.

gm eh there just there i mean they lost the impala malibu and now they are more of an old people company now cept for the corvette but that would be more for old people with money or rich kids
 

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Toyota Fanboy
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Id prefer they partner with Ford over GM. At least Ford is using somewhat modern engine technology whereas GM is still holding onto the OHV engines. While the OHV engines are certainly good, reliable engines, they arent known for great power per cubic inch.
Mickeyd had it right. The Corolla, Matrix, Vibe, Yaris and Tacoma are made at NUMMI. The Geo Prizms used to be made at NUMMI, but GM dumped the Prizm in favor of the Korean-made Aveo.
I dont think that GM has anything to do with TMMK, thats where the Camrys and Siennas are made.
 

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Camry
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mickeyd said:
The only vehicals I know comming out of NUMMI are Corolla,Matrix,Vibe,Tacoma, and an export model to japan called the Vitz, a Toyota name plate. On earlier model corolla's,I beleive 92-97 models, they had Delco alternators on them that were junk, replaced a whole lot of them under warrenty with NipponDenso alternators. I did not realize that TMMK had anthing to do with G.M., as far as I know it's wholely owened & operated by Toyota.
The export car manufactured at NUMMI is sold as Toyota Voltz in Japan, which is a rebadged, RHD, Pontiac Vibe. Before the Voltz, Toyota sold the Toyota Cavalier in Japan.

Vitz is a small car, I think it's the Japanese badging for an Echo or Echo hatchback.
 

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Toyota Fanboy
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The Vitz is completely different from an Echo.
If my memory serves me correctly, the Vitz has been sold outside of the US for a few years now and only now has Toyota decided to sell it in the US. I hope this will start a new trend of Toyota bringing non-US models to the states. They have a lot of great vehicles that arent sold here that I think should be.
 

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Captain_Toyota said:
Id prefer they partner with Ford over GM. At least Ford is using somewhat modern engine technology whereas GM is still holding onto the OHV engines. While the OHV engines are certainly good, reliable engines, they arent known for great power per cubic inch.
OHV engines are great.

Holding on to them is probably one of the smartest things GM has ever done. The V6's are extremely space efficient (much much smaller than Japanese DOHC V6's) and cost anywhere from $600-1000 less to produce than a DOHC V6. This is what allows GM to sell you a pushrod V6 at the same price point as a Japanese 4-cylinder. And the compact design allows them to dedicate more room to passenger space and less to the engine bay which works out well too. Pushrod OHV engines also use just a small timing chain which lasts the life of the engine so no changing needed. The camshaft in a pushrod V engine is just above the crank in the V-valley so it's a really small chain. Also, due to only turning 1 cam, and 12 valves on an OHV V6 vs 2 or 4 cams and 24 valves on a SOHC/DOHC V6 engine, you have an extremely similified design with fewer moving parts and very low overall friction. The Chevy Malibu 3.5L V6 makes 200hp/220tq, and gets 23 mpg city, 32 mpg hwy. That is DAMN GOOD mileage, and also very good power. It's better than Toyota's 1MZ-FE on regular even with DOHC, VVT-i, and a variable intake manifold, and it's practically the same as the 3MZ-FE all while being a much simpler and much cheaper engine. It gets better fuel mileage than all of those engines too.

When it comes to V8 engines, OHVs have an even bigger advantage. DOHC 90* V8 engines are friggin huge. They require enormous engine bays, massive heads, and get extremely heavy. In comparison an OHV V8 is tiny, and since the engines are so space efficient more of the engine area can be dedicated to displacement which is what makes torque rather than wasting it all away on DOHC heads and lots of valves.



GM's OHV V8 truck engines blow away Ford's 4.6/5.4L SOHCs. Ford can't even compete and as a result I've read that they're coming out with a 6.2L pushrod OHV engine to finally do battle with the bigger GM OHV V8s and the DCX Hemi engine. I would take a GM OHV V6 any day over the crappy Ford 3.0L Duratec DOHC V6. That thing is unrefined, underpowered, and doesn't even get very good gas mileage. A GM OHV 3800 makes about the same peak horsepower, makes way more torque, and also gets better mileage (30 mpg easy, vs 26-27 for the Duratec). Now that Ford's 3.5L DOHC V6 is coming out finally though, the GM vs Ford V6 wars will finally get a lot more interesting.

BTW, GM realized a long time ago that to sell in premium segments they just have to have a "modern" DOHC 24-valve V6 engine. So they have a global "high feature" V6 lineup with all the high end stuff. DOHC, 24 valves, dual VVT, and displacements of 2.8, 3.2, and 3.6L. These are used mainly in the Cadillac cars, and a few others. There's also a turbocharged 2.8L V6 used in a Saab that won a Ward's 10 Best engine award this year too. And then there's the Northstar V8 which is fully modern and has been around for ages too.

So GM has all the bases covered whether their application demands a space and cost efficient OHV V6, or a "premium" high feature one with all the importesque stuff. If anybody has really been hurting lately in domestic powertrains it is DEFINITELY Ford, not GM or Chrysler. Ford has by far had the weakest and most pathetic powertrain lineup in the past few years that it's not even funny. The 3.5L V6 will help that a lot, and then if this 6.2L OHV V8 comes out that will help Ford a ton too. They've had some really stellar products (Five Hundred, Fusion, Freestyle, etc) but no decent engines to put in them. :( GM's OHV V engines are extremely modern, very efficient, and perfectly viable in today's marketplace. There is a perception problem with them to some extent, but the C6 Z06 LS7 engine, the DCX Hemi, the LS1/LS2, and the 303hp/28mpg LS4 engine have all helped to change that perception.
 

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oh i forgot this thread was about parts! :lol:


Anyways, the auto industry is global and companies use parts from suppliers all over the world, and also do manufacturing all over the world. The Honda Accord has so much American parts content that it's actually classified by the EPA as a domestic vehicle, and nobody is going to say that the Accord isn't reliable. I'm not sure about Camrys, but I'm sure they're similar also. Domestic suppliers are perfectly capable of building very high quality parts.
 

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05 Speedwayblue X-runner
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I thought GM has invested a lot of $$$$$ into Toyota. and NUMMI was a joint partnership between Toyota and GM. Delphi is another corp. that GM has invested a lot of $$$$$$$$ into and is one of the major parts distribitor for NUMMI. I even remember when the GEO's were being sold at the GM dealerships.
 

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The Return of the Red Coupe
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Actually we had the Echo/Vitz since 2003, the Yaris/Vitz since last year as a 2006 model.

GM has no money on Toyota, however GM and Toyota have joint money on NUMMI.
 

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What GM Symbol / stamp are you reffering to??

DELPHI ?? Delphi is very prominent in North America, and is a supplier to Toyota. Delphi manufacturing is one of the services, the parts are spec'd out by Toyota, and Delphi gets it there. You will notice that it is application specific made by Denso or Delphi.

Delphi is one OEM supplier like any other out there... names such as Calsonic, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Visteon, Denso, KYB, Stanley... etc. (Just to name a few)

Generic fit parts such as a battery, bulbs, belts though... you have seen what gets substituted aftermarket all the time, and don't really matter that much in terms of functionality and value. But what does matter is that "OEM FIT" might not address all of the design constraints of the manufacturer.
 

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Moving Forward
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Like someone said in the 92-97 Corollas they used Delco alternators and they were junk. I bet I replaced at least one a day while I was at Toyota. They also used Delco radios in lots of the Camry's and Avalons. More that likely the parts you are seeing are form the GM parts division. Delphi used to be owned by GM until they spun it off several years ago. Visteon used to be owned by Ford until they were spun off. They amnufacture parts for the american manufacturers but they can not survive on jsut making parts for those companies. Therefor they go out and accrue business form other manufacturers. It is all about business. IF you ahve the best price and good quality on parts then you can sell them. Likewise have you ever looked under the hood of some american cars. You will find Nippondenso-Every Japanese manufacturer uses their parts. You will also find Bosch-ABS especially since they were the first ones to really push it and have lots of experience, they are German. Like I said it is all about business.

One other thing to consider, is it possible the car has been involved in some kind of accident. There are many parts suppliers that make after market replacement parts for vehicles they do not necessarioy make OEM parts for.
 

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Toyota Fanboy
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SteVTEC said:
GM's OHV V8 truck engines blow away Ford's 4.6/5.4L SOHCs. Ford can't even compete and as a result I've read that they're coming out with a 6.2L pushrod OHV engine to finally do battle with the bigger GM OHV V8s and the DCX Hemi engine.
The 6.2L is the new diesel. That engine has NOTHING in common with the 4.6L/5.4L gas
V8s.
Ive got a 5.4L in my F-150 and you couldnt pay me to drive a truck with even a 6.0L OHV V8. GM doesnt know how to build a V8 that makes its power down low, where you can actually use it. My truck's engine makes 90% of it's torque below 2,000 rpm and peak torque at 2200. You cant say the same about a 6.0L because its derived from the engine the 'Vette has (midrange to high rpm power).
Go drive a 4Runner or Tacoma with a 3.4L DOHC V6 and then tell me how great the GM 3.5L isnt....
 

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How hard can it be?
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^^ agreed. GM doesn't make a product (or factors of production which go into those products) that the american people want. Yet another classic example is their HydraMatic 4-speed automatics. Why not just R&D and get a six speed out there?
 
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