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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Got the Scan Guage II Seems to be the go to tool / scanner for transmission fluid change. Level Car, drain fluid. Measure, fill with exact amount that came out. Run to 104 degrees check to fast drip done deal. In California the dealer wants $189 for a drain and fill and just under $300 for a complete fluid change which does not include a filter change. Fuckin Pirates! Even The independent guy wants $180. They've got your number! And yes, you should change the filter at some point especially if you often run in stop and go traffic. That's a pain in the ass to get the pan off as you have to remove a mount and lift the trans with a floor jack or trans jack if you are lucky enough to have access to a lift. There's a You Tube Video on it.
Also got the TOYOTA World Standard fluid (Dealer discount to $70 for 6, still a rip off!). because I don't like to mix fluids. Yes Amsoil is better however who knows what Toyota is putting in that. Most likely it's just a cheap re-branded non synthetic. Could be anything. Don't want it to foam or gel in there.
If I drain and fill every other oil change I'll be running 70 to 80% newer fluid after two or three.
Toyota ain't what it used to be. I sold Toyotas from 1983 until 1999, on and off for about 17 years.

adding web site with info on 5-28-2020 -> AGCO Automotive Repair Service - Baton Rouge, LA - Detailed Auto Topics - How Do I Check Toyota Transmission Fluid

see my post on page two how to level the car
 

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ATF temp, if I remember is 104-113F.
Due to normal fluid evaporation(aka volatility), I recommend the lowest 104F level check.
Some in colder climates have symptoms that feel like low ATF level should also do a 104F ATF level check.

Remove the level check 'drain plug' at 102F and reinstall it at 104F.

Amsoil, Maxlife, Lubegard, Redline, Ravenol, Eneos, and numerous others,.... all have exceptional and compatible fluids. I worry more about the performance, or lack of, from the OE WS fluid.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes 104 degrees. Varies from model to model. Mixing synthetic and non synthetic fluids may not be wise. Some types (brands) of fluids will foam or gel when mixed with unlike fluids. If you are going to change 100% (or as much as you can possibly get out) then replace with the new fluid ( up to 12 quarts on some Toyotas) then you are safe as far as mixing non synthetic with synthetic fluids.
Some have said that manufacturers use different additives and grades of lubricants and you should never mix unlike fluids.
 

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Mixing fluids fine as long as they are compatible with the spec.
 

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Mixing fluids fine as long as they are compatible with the spec.
Certainly the old myth that synthetic oils don't "mix" or don't work with dino oil has been laid to rest.
The dino oil is just a mix of a wider range of molecules than the synthetic oil, so they mix and are compatible.

It's not like trying to mix castor bean (racing) oil with mineral/dino/synthetic hydrocarbon oil, or like mixing different types of brake fluid, or like (god forbid) mixing gasoline with nitromethane fuel.

The amount of additives would seem likely to be different though, in that a synthetic oil base shouldn't need as much of certain additives such as viscosity index improvers or anti-oxidation chemicals (and which is part of why synthetic oils have less of a tendency to gum up piston rings at high temperatures).
A wider-range grade of synthetic oil can thus run as clean as a narrower-range grade of dino oil, something that is obvious when shopping for (and comparing) oils intended for turbo-diesel truck engines.

So the question might arise as to whether a mix of similar-grade dino oil and synthetic oil would in every case still have the required levels of additives to endure a full worst-case service interval?
 

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Look on Amazon/ebay you will find toyota trans fluid at a reasonable price. I use only toyota trans fluid, I don't have to wonder or guess about it.
 

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Look on Amazon/ebay you will find toyota trans fluid at a reasonable price. I use only toyota trans fluid, I don't have to wonder or guess about it.
Yeah, I just bought two cases (12 quarts) of Toyota WS fluid online for just over $100 including shipping.

What I'm struggling with right now is how to determine when the car is level to plus/minus one degree.
I went looking for a level parking spot yesterday, to figure out where I could place my level in/on the car while I work on my tilted driveway. I need a level reference before I start at home. But I couldn't find a single level parking spot anywhere, including two shopping centers, a smog shop and a gas station. I would stop and place the level, then I would park backwards in the same spot, and the level would always change. So I did not even find one level place to reference my level and where to place it. I will also have to level it from front to rear, not just left to right. One degree is the tolerance.

Is there by chance a place on the car that is known to be level with level ground? Even the middle of my dashboard, looks level but is far from level! I am having to do a good bit of work here just to figure out how to determine if/when my car is level in my driveway. And I will of course then also have to actually level it while maintaining access to the underside of the car. This is turning out to be the most work of any individual step when changing transmission fluid at home.
 

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Its just not that hard.... the Need to be within 1 degree of level and at a set temp is crap. Look in the gen 6 forum, same engine and transmission... you will see lots of picture, experiences... I drain it, measure what comes out (it has always been 2.8litres across 6 drains) and put the same amount back in - possibly a little more. I have 2 gen 5’s 256,000km and 130,000km.
I use an Australian synthetic fluid - Penrite LV - so there is no issue mixing fluids there. It is over 60,000km since the first drain in my car- the 256,0000 km one.
I think thry are sensitive to a low fluid level, like pretty much every auto transmission but having the level too high does not seem to be a problem - I think both of mine have more fluid than before I got them.
From my experience rebuilding transmissions 20 years ago, when customers would overfill their transmissio, the box would just spray it out via a vent hole (Our ‘sealed’ transmissions have at least one vent hole) Usually all over the engine bay. So a big mess is the worst outcome I ever saw.
 

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I can't assume that the vent on my $5k transmission acts as a fluid level correction device.

And the main reason why I am doing my transmission fluid now is because I am uncertain how well that the independent shop changed the fluid 10k miles ago. I want to check the level first, to see that it's where it is supposed to be. And I want to replace the fluid because the previous owner's service receipt showed that "T-4" fluid was used.

It's easier for those who have a level garage floor to work on, but I have only an uneven paved driveway where I can do this, and one degree is not a lot!

I will continue looking for a level reference surface around town where I can determine where my level needs to be placed when I do this job in my driveway. I'm thinking that a spot on my roof can be marked where the level will read level if the car is level. But first I need to find a level spot and then mark the exact spot on my roof where a level will indicate level correctly in both directions.
 

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I just did a full exchange through the oil cooler return, pan drop w/ filter change, and fill on mine, I didnt use toyota WS though.

Through some research, I used Idemitsu TLS-LV as seen below: ATF Type TLS-LV | Idemitsu Lubricants (local autozone stocks these fortunately)

It's a full synthetic spec'ed for transmissions asking for WS fluid. I used a total of 12 quarts. In the process I also added an external transmission cooler after the factory setup with a B&M transmission cooler 70268:
300518

300519

300520



It's a stacked plate cooler, which has an internal bypass to allow tranny oil temps to warm up faster and will allow fluid to flow through the cooler once temps reach around 160ish. My maintained tranny oil temps are around 170-175 after a 30 minute drive.

I used a $2 magnetic level attached to my frame rail under the car and another on the radiator upper support to determine side-to-side to determine where my car was level, I had to raise my rear slightly during the fluid check procedure, fortunately didnt have to do anything for side-to-side leveling.

For the u760e, proper procedure to fluid check is correct from previous posts.

I've attached the pdf to help assist you.
 

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What is the "DTC Output" and what is the "combination meter"?

I am completely unfamiliar with these terms even as I am about to perform the trans flush!

And the engine idle speed control? I wasn't expecting to be dealing with any of these things. Idle speed isn't good enough?
What do I need a meter for when I have an IR reader and a thermometer?
 

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DTC output is basically referring to the OBD2 port. If you dont have a scan tool, you can use a safety pin to jump the terminals 4 & 13 to go into idle mode (maintains 800 rpm basically and fans turn on to keep temps from rising too fast, will show a solid D, even when in park when the transmission is at proper temp to check fluid level).

Combination meter is basically your gauge cluster (looking where it shows P,R,N,D, or gear).

I didnt do the idle mode, I just checked fill level with my scan tool next to me and opened up the drain port when it got to temp. (Make sure to check with the car running and not off). For me I ended up being about 3/4 under filled, I'm assuming due to me adding the extra auxiliary cooler.
 

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Thanks, yeah, I was familiar with the jumper being used to indicate that the temp was in range.

That cooler is perfect, dropping the fluid temperature even ten degrees will greatly slow the fluid from degrading.
 

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Yeah, the cooler was added due to the tranny temps getting to around 195 or so cruising and when driving hard through canyon roads, I was able to reach 242*F.

Just got back from a 6 hour drive through the canyons, really pushing the car and my temps didnt get passed 192*F and cruising was maintained around 180-185*F. The cooler was a perfect addition and wasnt too hard to install.
 

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I added a large spin on filter in front of the radiator where you put the cooler. It adds about a litre of fluid capacity including the hoses to / from it. I have never checked temp but an extra litre of fluid running out in front of the radiator must reduce the temp a bit.
 

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I added a large spin on filter in front of the radiator where you put the cooler. It adds about a litre of fluid capacity including the hoses to / from it. I have never checked temp but an extra litre of fluid running out in front of the radiator must reduce the temp a bit.
Interesting idea, I was thinking along the same lines. I also thought that a small see-through inline filter (without the filtering element) might be useful for inspecting the fluid color.

Was your filter/kit made to be used as a transmission filter?
I ask because the flow rate of this fluid is very high, possibly a lot more than the flow rate of an engine's oil.

So my concern would be how well does an automatic transmission tolerate any additional restriction of it's return line versus how well that an engine's oil pump tolerates back-pressure(?). In an engine, the pump's flow goes directly to the filter, but in a transmission the return flow is coming from components that are between the oil pump and the the return line to the pan (and to any filter or cooler that has been added). Do these components work (and last) as well when any additional pressure is added to their return flow?
So I would probably only feel comfortable installing a reputable brand of transmission-specific remote filter kit, versus putting one together myself. Perhaps yours is such a kit(?), and I noted that you mentioned that the filter was large.
On this note, I would think that any filter made for this sort of accessory would have to have a bypass valve that was calibrated to the specific needs of the particular automatic transmission and not of an engine's oil system. A motor oil filter's bypass is calibrated to protect the filter element from collapsing, but here there might be a very different bypass pressure requirement as far as protecting the transmission from the effects of added return line pressure.

Lastly, how fast will such a filter become clogged in terms of what it's replacement service interval has to be? I ask because engine oil filters don't have to deal with all the shedded particulate of friction surface materials.

You are right that the added oil volume is helpful in controlling temperature, since the temperature can't rise as fast during any peak of heat generation such as climbing hills, using more power to maintain speed.
 

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I read a bit online about others who had done the same sort of thing and some - who have not done it - had your concerns. The hoses and filter base are for an extra engine oil fliter but they are pretty irrelevant here as they have no valves... to stop or restrict flow. The first filter I used was large, approx 1.5 times taller than the engine oil filter and it was for hydraulic fluid. Being a bit concerned about clogging, I kept that for about 10,000 km then replaced with an even larger engine oil filter that does 99.5% remove at .5 micron (from memory) and I kept the first one o them for 25,000km. Everything works well... no problems, smooth shifts.
In reading before adding the filter, I read that transmissions make most of their particular wear particles in their first 10,000km or so and then very little after that. - could be wrong but it makes sense to me.
 

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The filter's bypass valve doesn't restrict flow, but does force the oil through even a clogged filter up to the blow-off pressure of the valve. I have no idea how this level of back-pressure might affect the transmission.
The metal wear particles do taper off sharply after break-in, but clutches go on shedding particles and I have no idea how long that material might take to create filter obstruction.
I do notice that transmission filters seem to have a much coarser filtration element than engine oil filters, seemingly designed not to clog so easily(?).
 

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The transmission filters are often there for life... so they have to be coarse to avoid blocking up. I think my 20,000-40,000km per filter is overkill.
 
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