trd s/c tech question
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do you think im a noob? i know how turbos work and superchargers, just wondering specifically if our TRD superchargers have a clutch...
i was thinking of doing a twin charged 1mz combo. but i missed a sick ebay auction...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=7909581780&category=33741&sspagename=WDVW
so i wont be doing that anymore... just straight up turbo.
i was thinking of doing a twin charged 1mz combo. but i missed a sick ebay auction...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=7909581780&category=33741&sspagename=WDVW
so i wont be doing that anymore... just straight up turbo.
The TRD 1MZ supercharger has an internal bypass valve, not a clutch. The supercharger blades are spinning all the time, but they are just blowing air in a circle most of the time. (note the actuator on the top back of the supercharger - thats what it does)
-Charlie
-Charlie
no its not too bad... i need a supercharger with a clutch, or a centrifugal type s/c. if the TRD one had a clutch, i would be able to disengage the blades when the turbo spools so i wouldnt be abusing the s/c. i cant do that setup with the trd s/c. it would force the s/c to spin faster than the belt and cause damage.
-dave
-dave
yeah the bypass valve and actuator just basically lets off excess pressure like a turbo's blow off valve.
yeah phi, thats what i was thinking... cause you need to have some way to bypass the s/c's turbine so you dont over spin it. if our s/c was clutch type, we would be able to disengage the turbine when the turbo spools up, around 3000rpms or so, then the higher pressure of the turbo wouldnt try to spin the s/c pulley faster than the belt is going. and thats specifically what would happen in this case. the only other way to do this setup is with a s/c feeding into the throttle body but before that, there is a 3 way joint with a one way valve for the s/c charge pipe and the turbo charge pipe. so when the pressure is higher from the s/c the valve stays almost closed cause there is less pressure from the turbo, and then when the turbo spools up and gets to where there is more pressure, the air from the turbo charge pipe would blow through its one way valve, and the pressure would be held in by the s/c's one way valve... but this obviously isnt possible with a roots type in-manifold supercharger. this is why it might be slightly more possible with a centrifugal type s/c.
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yeah phi, thats what i was thinking... cause you need to have some way to bypass the s/c's turbine so you dont over spin it. if our s/c was clutch type, we would be able to disengage the turbine when the turbo spools up, around 3000rpms or so, then the higher pressure of the turbo wouldnt try to spin the s/c pulley faster than the belt is going. and thats specifically what would happen in this case. the only other way to do this setup is with a s/c feeding into the throttle body but before that, there is a 3 way joint with a one way valve for the s/c charge pipe and the turbo charge pipe. so when the pressure is higher from the s/c the valve stays almost closed cause there is less pressure from the turbo, and then when the turbo spools up and gets to where there is more pressure, the air from the turbo charge pipe would blow through its one way valve, and the pressure would be held in by the s/c's one way valve... but this obviously isnt possible with a roots type in-manifold supercharger. this is why it might be slightly more possible with a centrifugal type s/c.
[/info]
for more great tech info, come to the shiftgate forums, no bullshit just tech.
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592 Posts
Maybe I'm missing something, but that does not make any friggin sense at all. A roots blower is a positive displacement blower, which means it moves the same VOLUME of air with every revolution. It shouldn't make any difference whatsoever what the incoming pressure is, the outgoing pressure would be greater. I can't see for the life of me how you would overspin it. It's not like its a fan or something. Can you reference me to a tech article of some kind describing this phenomenon?
Wait, did they put the s/c first and then the turbo? That might cause a problem, because the s/c might not be able to feed enough air to the turbo. But if the turbo is first, then the s/c, it should work fine, I would think, because the s/c is just moving the same volume of air as before, but with greater initial pressure. The pressure ratio shouldn't change, because the engine displacement is still the same. Like how on sequential turbos the first one is bigger to feed the larger volume of air to the second smaller one which feeds the engine. But then again, I'm just theorizing here, so who knows. Somebody got links to info on that?
Wait, did they put the s/c first and then the turbo? That might cause a problem, because the s/c might not be able to feed enough air to the turbo. But if the turbo is first, then the s/c, it should work fine, I would think, because the s/c is just moving the same volume of air as before, but with greater initial pressure. The pressure ratio shouldn't change, because the engine displacement is still the same. Like how on sequential turbos the first one is bigger to feed the larger volume of air to the second smaller one which feeds the engine. But then again, I'm just theorizing here, so who knows. Somebody got links to info on that?
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6,584 Posts
Dude just do a turbo and forget the twincharging.
You always preach about turbos, so do it.
Or do 6 small turbos. 1 per cylinder, like that LS1 with 8 turbos.
http://www.lateral-g.net/sandlin
You always preach about turbos, so do it.
Or do 6 small turbos. 1 per cylinder, like that LS1 with 8 turbos.
http://www.lateral-g.net/sandlin
If you have the SC before the turbo (SC feeding into the turbo), you can't over driven it. You may creat a vaccum or low pressure zone between the turbo and the SC when the turbo push more CFM then the SC. How about a bypass valve that open to atmosphere when that section of pipe get low pressure?
Filter---+-----SC------+------Turbo
|---Bypass---|
May need some crazy piping.
How about the clutch on AC? Can you use it on the SC?
Filter---+-----SC------+------Turbo
|---Bypass---|
May need some crazy piping.
How about the clutch on AC? Can you use it on the SC?
the best way to do it is when a electronic clutch driven s/c like ben said. then you can program the stand alone ecu to disengage the clutch on the s/c when it gets to mid rpm range, when the turbo spools up. then the turbo will take over and blast out the rest of the powerband. and this wouldnt harm the s/c or the drive belt, cause the s/c would be disengaged.
-dave
-dave
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6,584 Posts
^ Looks like you got the right idea.
Funny that you mention standalone ecu's cos my friend has a Accel DFI (Gen 7+). It has a option to turn off the a/c at a certain rpm or when the tps is open past a certain amount. Something like that.
You see what I'm getting at?
Funny that you mention standalone ecu's cos my friend has a Accel DFI (Gen 7+). It has a option to turn off the a/c at a certain rpm or when the tps is open past a certain amount. Something like that.
You see what I'm getting at?
Here's some links to twincharge set-ups/info:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/archive/topic/6950-1.html
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Lane/1231/twincharging.html
http://shell.deru.com/~sgn1/AW11/mod/mc.htm
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/archive/topic/6950-1.html
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Lane/1231/twincharging.html
http://shell.deru.com/~sgn1/AW11/mod/mc.htm
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