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· straight cash homie
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http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ands-and-the-success-of-the-honda-2012-civic/
I agree with Dyson. Brand is an utterly obnoxious word. Brand really just means “reputation”. As we’ve seen before, “building your brand” without any substance behind it will be immediately exposed as fraudulent. But brands still matter.

Being as good as your last product has a lot of implications. It’s probably why the Honda Civic, despite being panned by critics, still draws in customers in reasonable numbers. The Civic, depending on what month we’re talking about, is the best-selling car in its segment, or close to it. The issue with the Civic isn’t that the critics are dead wrong and out of touch (in a sense, it’s true) or that it’s a dreadful vehicle (false, but it could have been much, much better) – it’s that the Civic is just good enough. To the average consumer who doesn’t live and die by double wishbone suspensions, it feels like their old Civic, but fresh and taut and not smelling like dogs and gym socks.

Just for comparison, I went and took a look at the 2000 Civic, owned by my grandmother, with a mere 50,000 miles. After driving the 2012, she vastly prefers it to her car, with the chief complaints being the dual stack cluster being a bit hard to see, and the lack of an illuminated ring around the ignition key. There is way more power from the 1.8L engine, the automatic gearbox in her LX test car has 5-speeds rather than 4, the driving position and visibility are leagues ahead of the old EK sedan – really, everything is just better, new, improved, the benefit of 12 years of technological improvements. Yes, the interior is spartan, with awful plastics and an ugly layout. Was the 2000 Civic, regarded as one of the best Civics in the car’s history, any different in terms of interior quality? The plastics used by Honda have been cheap junk for ages – even in the “golden era” of the 1990s, Honda execs would openly laugh at the third-rate interior materials and the flimsy, mouse-fur sun visors were a punchline. The game has moved on compared to its competitors, but to the people buying the car, it’s not such an affront to their dignity like some members of the motoring press would have us think.

On paper, the Elantra, Focus and Cruze are the superior cars, packed with the latest infotainment, sophisticated drivetrains and avant-garde styling. By comparison, 2012 Civic is simple and easy to operate. The other three have a mess of buttons and cluttered interiors that drive up the sticker price and scare off techno-phobic older buyers as well as young buyers who don’t necessarily have the patience for Sync, MyLink and other in-dash hijinks. Older buyers will care more about value for money. For young people, a Ford Focus is a distant memory of a cheap rental car, and you still have to justify the purchase of a Hyundai to a few of your friends, no matter how good it looks or how much equipment it comes with. You don’t with a Civic.

The danger for Honda is that this could be the last Civic these folks ever purchase. The rough ride and the awfully hollow sound made when the trunk slams may be the sort of thing that compels consumers to look else where. The 2013 redesign will supposedly address the styling and add a CVT and direct injection – robbing the Civic of whatever mechanical robustness it still had compared to the untested, GDI-equipped, tech-laden competition. If Civic customers end up defecting to Hyundai, Chevrolet or Ford, they’ll find a car that may be a bit more than what they wanted, but one that does look and feel more “premium”, along with a brand that’s had a few years to ripen and perfect their image. Honda’s brand is no longer steeped in the mystique of NSXs, S2000s and Type-R hot hatches. They simply are “Honda”, purveyor of durable, four-wheeled transportation. And if your brand is lost and you’re only as good as your last product, then Honda is in danger of losing them forever.
 

· Newbie One Kanobi
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:nono::nono::nono:

You're going to be labeled a Honda hater by the Honda owners on here. Better watch out!:):thumbsup:


Good article. I bet a lot of the Civic buyers let alone Honda buyers are repeat buyers, same goes with Toyota. Both brands have a strong loyalty. Rightfully so since they build a rep of reliable appliances and most people could care less about what we want on this site. Most don't care about cars or know about cars. While they don't have bad cars per say they just aren't as competitive, meaning the field has leveled out more with the better competition.

I better stop or I'll be labeled a Honda hater and fanboi:D And Zythr won't be my best friend anymore.
 

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:nono::nono::nono:

You're going to be labeled a Honda hater by the Honda owners on here. Better watch out!:):thumbsup:


Good article. I bet a lot of the Civic buyers let alone Honda buyers are repeat buyers, same goes with Toyota. Both brands have a strong loyalty. Rightfully so since they build a rep of reliable appliances and most people could care less about what we want on this site. Most don't care about cars or know about cars. While they don't have bad cars per say they just aren't as competitive, meaning the field has leveled out more with the better competition.

I better stop or I'll be labeled a Honda hater and fanboi:D And Zythr won't be my best friend anymore.

I don't dislike you because of your comments regarding Honda:) I partly agree, Honda has lost it way, especially with the Civic, then again, the Civic started on the decline when the Civic wagon was discontinued (Remember the Wagovan with the phone booth styling and 4WD?). The Civic line then became just another line of sedan and hatches, nothing special over the competition. Honda seems to have focused their attention on the Accord, which they have been doing for many many years, just like Toyota has done with the Camry over the Corolla. Camrry, Accord, cost more, so more profit.
 

· Newbie One Kanobi
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I don't dislike you because of your comments regarding Honda:) I partly agree, Honda has lost it way, especially with the Civic, then again, the Civic started on the decline when the Civic wagon was discontinued (Remember the Wagovan with the phone booth styling and 4WD?). The Civic line then became just another line of sedan and hatches, nothing special over the competition. Honda seems to have focused their attention on the Accord, which they have been doing for many many years, just like Toyota has done with the Camry over the Corolla. Camrry, Accord, cost more, so more profit.

I'm giving you crap. ;)

Agree, the Civic and Honda had a charm to them, now they seem like an also ran. Not a leader anymore.
 

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I have driven the 2012 Civic this week and yes its not bad in the usual terms. That's reserved for things like the Dodge Caliber or Chrysler Sebring. However with the removal of the Dodge Caliber from this segment, a genuinely bad car no longer exists. As I've been saying what's considered bad now is basically the cars that are average at best, nothing outstanding to deserve to be considered good. This is where the Civic falls on, yes they improved some things like the dash gauges which I did like. The steering is...fractionally better, the fuel economy is a bit better. Overall though, if you have a 2006 Civic and like it...this 2012 doesn't do one bloody thing to be worth the investment. My criticism is really how lazy Honda was, where the Elantra and Cruze are leaps and bounds better, the Civic was barely an improvement over a ho hum car.

I'd actually be more lenient if Honda called this 2012 Civic just a refresh because that's what it really is. However they went with "All-new" and you're not getting much for that. Looks pretty much the same, drives pretty much the same and feels pretty much the same. As a "all-new" car it sucks. My suggestion, if you like this Civic go buy a used 8th gen, you save a big chunk of money as a result and still get essentially the exact same car.
 

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I have driven the 2012 Civic this week and yes its not bad in the usual terms. That's reserved for things like the Dodge Caliber or Chrysler Sebring. However with the removal of the Dodge Caliber from this segment, a genuinely bad car no longer exists. As I've been saying what's considered bad now is basically the cars that are average at best, nothing outstanding to deserve to be considered good. This is where the Civic falls on, yes they improved some things like the dash gauges which I did like. The steering is...fractionally better, the fuel economy is a bit better. Overall though, if you have a 2006 Civic and like it...this 2012 doesn't do one bloody thing to be worth the investment. My criticism is really how lazy Honda was, where the Elantra and Cruze are leaps and bounds better, the Civic was barely an improvement over a ho hum car.

I'd actually be more lenient if Honda called this 2012 Civic just a refresh because that's what it really is. However they went with "All-new" and you're not getting much for that. Looks pretty much the same, drives pretty much the same and feels pretty much the same. As a "all-new" car it sucks. My suggestion, if you like this Civic go buy a used 8th gen, you save a big chunk of money as a result and still get essentially the exact same car.

Maybe Honda figures why mess with success when it comes to the Civic:) Does it not still have a high resale value, and how many small cars have a digital set up similar to the Civic. Plus, with Honda having to "pinch pennies" with the number of models they have, maybe they don't have a lot of dollars to spend on a new from the ground up model. As for the Caliber, not surprised, the name just reeks of being a disappointment, though there have been a few up for winning on "The Price is Right" along with the Jeep Patriot and Compass.
 

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I've always thought the Civic was the cheap tin can car that is always has been. It caught on as "cool" among those whose balls hadn't dropped but it was (and still is) a basic cheap car. Rice rice baby. By the same token, Toyota doesn't exactly have a chest to beat over the Corolla. It serves the same basic purpose... Transportation for the masses. Both do a good job of that.

Some of Honda's other offerings are great. We love our Accord... but it's a far cry from being a Civic.
 

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Maybe Honda figures why mess with success when it comes to the Civic:)
Then why call it all new? That was my point. You avoid so much trouble that way and can get away with being lazy.

Does it not still have a high resale value, and how many small cars have a digital set up similar to the Civic.
The Cruze and the Sonic come with one. Its no longer the only one. Fords also have a completely digital dash layout however you'd like it. Even Dodge provides this on their newer models.

Plus, with Honda having to "pinch pennies" with the number of models they have, maybe they don't have a lot of dollars to spend on a new from the ground up model.
This is Honda, not Subaru, Mazda, Mitsubishi or Suzuki. If they can't afford to make a truly all new Civic with the amount of vehicles they sell, then their accountants should all be fired. Even the failures of the Insight, CR-Z, Crosstour and ZDX aren't enough to bring that much money down. If Mitsubishi was able to bring out a whole new Lancer while its sales were plummeting, the Honda should be able to when its profits were rather high. The tsunami didn't affect how this Civic was going to be, its only affect was whether it would arrive at the dealer a month later or several months later than scheduled.

As for the Caliber, not surprised, the name just reeks of being a disappointment, though there have been a few up for winning on "The Price is Right" along with the Jeep Patriot and Compass.
That's kind of like winning the chance to go to prison. Not desirable.
 
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Then why call it all new? That was my point. You avoid so much trouble that way and can get away with being lazy.


The Cruze and the Sonic come with one. Its no longer the only one. Fords also have a completely digital dash layout however you'd like it. Even Dodge provides this on their newer models.


This is Honda, not Subaru, Mazda, Mitsubishi or Suzuki. If they can't afford to make a truly all new Civic with the amount of vehicles they sell, then their accountants should all be fired. Even the failures of the Insight, CR-Z, Crosstour and ZDX aren't enough to bring that much money down. If Mitsubishi was able to bring out a whole new Lancer while its sales were plummeting, the Honda should be able to when its profits were rather high. The tsunami didn't affect how this Civic was going to be, its only affect was whether it would arrive at the dealer a month later or several months later than scheduled.


That's kind of like winning the chance to go to prison. Not desirable.



Ironically, did you happen to see the news story of the sales surge in the Civic and Corolla; enough so that the Cruze has been knocked down to 4th in sales. Honda and especially Toyota seem to be back on track sales wise. Obviously the Civic (and Corolla) are still appealing :)
 

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Ironically, did you happen to see the news story of the sales surge in the Civic and Corolla; enough so that the Cruze has been knocked down to 4th in sales. Honda and especially Toyota seem to be back on track sales wise. Obviously the Civic (and Corolla) are still appealing :)
I'm not sure about appealing. More like being chosen as the default or safe choice. Not much in the compact segment is that appealing until you want to spend a lot and end up with Mitsubishi Evos, Impreza WRX STis, or any of the hot hatches.
 

· Newbie One Kanobi
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Ironically, did you happen to see the news story of the sales surge in the Civic and Corolla; enough so that the Cruze has been knocked down to 4th in sales. Honda and especially Toyota seem to be back on track sales wise. Obviously the Civic (and Corolla) are still appealing :)


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

You crack me up Zythr!
 

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I'm not sure about appealing. More like being chosen as the default or safe choice. Not much in the compact segment is that appealing until you want to spend a lot and end up with Mitsubishi Evos, Impreza WRX STis, or any of the hot hatches.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

You crack me up Zythr!


Well,:lol: The Civic and Corolla fits the needs of many, and can be tailor made (esp Corolla) to suit the economy car driver's tastes.
 

· straight cash homie
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well,:lol: The Civic and Corolla fits the needs of many, and can be tailor made (esp Corolla) to suit the economy car driver's tastes.
It's more like many need a basic economy car and the Civirolla fit the bill. They didn't turn the Camry into a Corolla, it's its own car.
 
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