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·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read an article about a washer liquid warmer in some of the new Buick
Lucerne. My quick response was.... what a good idea. I noticed that
some of the luxurious GM car (Cadillac) also has this feature. I wonder
if this is really a good idea, especially if you live in a cold winter
area, where temperature drop to 0 deg.F. Why haven't others (especially
those luxurious brand name model cars) come up with the same idea, or
have they?
My related question is : If the ambient temperature is about 0 to minus
10 deg F, and you drive your car for about 20-30 minutes.... what would
then be for the ambient temperature under the hood? Will the engine
warm up the area under the hood to above 32F quickly?
I notice that block heater is used in cold weather to jacket and warm
the engine block, and it seems to work very well.... but will similar
device be useful to warm up the container of the windshield liquid, so
that the liquid comes out warm (above 32F) and melt the ice and snow in
the windshield right away?
Thanks for comment and discussion
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
[email protected] wrote:
> I read an article about a washer liquid warmer in some of the new Buick
> Lucerne. My quick response was.... what a good idea. I noticed that
> some of the luxurious GM car (Cadillac) also has this feature. I wonder
> if this is really a good idea, especially if you live in a cold winter
> area, where temperature drop to 0 deg.F. Why haven't others (especially
> those luxurious brand name model cars) come up with the same idea, or
> have they?
> My related question is : If the ambient temperature is about 0 to minus
> 10 deg F, and you drive your car for about 20-30 minutes.... what would
> then be for the ambient temperature under the hood? Will the engine
> warm up the area under the hood to above 32F quickly?
> I notice that block heater is used in cold weather to jacket and warm
> the engine block, and it seems to work very well.... but will similar
> device be useful to warm up the container of the windshield liquid, so
> that the liquid comes out warm (above 32F) and melt the ice and snow in
> the windshield right away?
> Thanks for comment and discussion
>


Many (most?) BMWs (and many other cars as well) have washer jet heaters
also. The point is not so much to heat the liquid as to keep the liquid
from freezing and blocking the jets.

--
-Fred W
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
the "liquid" is also good for temps of -40celcius.
so it is not really an issue, until it hits the cold windshield... then it
will sometimes freeze.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I read an article about a washer liquid warmer in some of the new Buick
> Lucerne. My quick response was.... what a good idea. I noticed that
> some of the luxurious GM car (Cadillac) also has this feature. I wonder
> if this is really a good idea, especially if you live in a cold winter
> area, where temperature drop to 0 deg.F. Why haven't others (especially
> those luxurious brand name model cars) come up with the same idea, or
> have they?
> My related question is : If the ambient temperature is about 0 to minus
> 10 deg F, and you drive your car for about 20-30 minutes.... what would
> then be for the ambient temperature under the hood? Will the engine
> warm up the area under the hood to above 32F quickly?
> I notice that block heater is used in cold weather to jacket and warm
> the engine block, and it seems to work very well.... but will similar
> device be useful to warm up the container of the windshield liquid, so
> that the liquid comes out warm (above 32F) and melt the ice and snow in
> the windshield right away?
> Thanks for comment and discussion


A simple method to warm up the washer fluid is to get about 5 or 10 feet of
extra tubing the same diameter as the washer tubing to the nozzles and a
couple of tubing connectors. Wrap the extra tubing around a heater or
radiator hose and connect in-line to the washer tubing. The heat from the
radiator will warm up the washer fluid before spraying it out.
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just use straight methanol when it gets REALLY cold. Or methanol and
undyed ethylene or propylene glycol. Put in just a little water and a
dollop of clear soap. I use Palmolive.

M100-straight methanol-is available from some gas stations. Don't use
M85, it has gasoline in it.
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
SharkmanBMW wrote:

> the "liquid" is also good for temps of -40celcius.
> so it is not really an issue, until it hits the cold windshield...
> then it will sometimes freeze.




The problem is, that -40º fluid sits in the nozzles overnight,
evaporating off the methanol fraction. Minus the alcohol, washer fluid
is just water and detergent.

And guess what water does at -40º? Nozzles /can/ and /do/ freeze up.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> The problem is, that -40º fluid sits in the nozzles overnight,
> evaporating off the methanol fraction. Minus the alcohol, washer fluid
> is just water and detergent.
>
> And guess what water does at -40º? Nozzles /can/ and /do/ freeze up.



I'm curious: is there any danger of the windshield cracking because of the great
disparity in temperatures?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[email protected]VE
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:36:16 -0500, Peter Daly
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Huge Goat Schmeisser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>
>
> > SharkmanBMW wrote:
> >
> >
> >> the "liquid" is also good for temps of -40celcius.
> >> so it is not really an issue, until it hits the cold windshield...
> >> then it will sometimes freeze.

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The problem is, that -40º fluid sits in the nozzles overnight,
> > evaporating off the methanol fraction. Minus the alcohol, washer fluid
> > is just water and detergent.
> >
> > And guess what water does at -40º? Nozzles /can/ and /do/ freeze up.
> >

>
>Huge Goat, if we were to believe that tripe, we wouldn't bother using
>windshield washers at all, because following your theory, the "fluid
>sits in the nozzles overnight, evaporating off the methanol fraction"!
>Nonesense Huge Goat! "the metanol fraction" does not evaporate
>overnight! Give your head a shake Huge Goat!


On an Aerostar, it does not matter WHAT WSW antifreeze you use. the
nozzles freeze up. In order to freeze, the freeze point MUST increase
- and the only way that happens is loss of the "methanol fraction".
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> SharkmanBMW wrote:
>
>
>>the "liquid" is also good for temps of -40celcius.
>>so it is not really an issue, until it hits the cold windshield...
>>then it will sometimes freeze.

>
>
>
>
> The problem is, that -40º fluid sits in the nozzles overnight,
> evaporating off the methanol fraction. Minus the alcohol, washer fluid
> is just water and detergent.
>
> And guess what water does at -40º? Nozzles /can/ and /do/ freeze up.


Hi...

Were that true; please explain to me how we can add a couple of ounces
of gas line anti-freeze to a 15 gallon tank, and have the alcohol
portion affect *all* of the fuel in the system within minutes.

Ken
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Peter Daly wrote:

> "Huge Goat Schmeisser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>
> > SharkmanBMW wrote:
> >
> >
> >> the "liquid" is also good for temps of -40celcius.
> >> so it is not really an issue, until it hits the cold windshield...
> >> then it will sometimes freeze.

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The problem is, that -40º fluid sits in the nozzles overnight,
> > evaporating off the methanol fraction. Minus the alcohol, washer

> fluid > is just water and detergent.
> >
> > And guess what water does at -40º? Nozzles can and do freeze up.
> >

>
> Huge Goat, if we were to believe that tripe, we wouldn't bother using
> windshield washers at all, because following your theory, the "fluid
> sits in the nozzles overnight, evaporating off the methanol
> fraction"! Nonesense Huge Goat! "the metanol fraction" does not
> evaporate overnight! Give your head a shake Huge Goat!




Perhaps you need to give your own head a shake.

I live in Ontario, Canada. I suppose I'm imaging the frozen nozzles I
/personally/ experience at least a couple of times every single winter?

By the way, a quick fix is to place a (warm) thumb over the nozzles for
a minute (or as long as you can stand). This is often enough to thaw
the fluid so as to allow the nozzles to function again. Once they start
working, they're normally fine for the rest of the day, even if the
temperature stays low.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ethylene glycol is a sweet tasting poison and should not be used unless you
like dead dogs in your neighborhood,


"Bret Ludwig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Just use straight methanol when it gets REALLY cold. Or methanol and
> undyed ethylene or propylene glycol. Put in just a little water and a
> dollop of clear soap. I use Palmolive.
>
> M100-straight methanol-is available from some gas stations. Don't use
> M85, it has gasoline in it.
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> Peter Daly wrote:
>
>
>>"Huge Goat Schmeisser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>
>> > SharkmanBMW wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> the "liquid" is also good for temps of -40celcius.
>> >> so it is not really an issue, until it hits the cold windshield...
>> >> then it will sometimes freeze.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The problem is, that -40º fluid sits in the nozzles overnight,
>> > evaporating off the methanol fraction. Minus the alcohol, washer

>>fluid > is just water and detergent.
>> >
>> > And guess what water does at -40º? Nozzles can and do freeze up.
>> >

>>
>>Huge Goat, if we were to believe that tripe, we wouldn't bother using
>>windshield washers at all, because following your theory, the "fluid
>>sits in the nozzles overnight, evaporating off the methanol
>>fraction"! Nonesense Huge Goat! "the metanol fraction" does not
>>evaporate overnight! Give your head a shake Huge Goat!

>
>
>
>
> Perhaps you need to give your own head a shake.
>
> I live in Ontario, Canada. I suppose I'm imaging the frozen nozzles I
> /personally/ experience at least a couple of times every single winter?
>
> By the way, a quick fix is to place a (warm) thumb over the nozzles for
> a minute (or as long as you can stand). This is often enough to thaw
> the fluid so as to allow the nozzles to function again. Once they start
> working, they're normally fine for the rest of the day, even if the
> temperature stays low.


Hi Hugo...

I live in Manitoba, Canada... a place called Winnipeg, but better known
as Winterpeg. Does that mean I win, or do I lose? :) :)

Alcohol migrates through water, even if frozen. Example if I may?
When a fuel line is frozen up at -40 degrees, we pour in a couple of
ounces of gas line antifreeze, and in very short order the fuel line
is no longer frozen :)

I suggest what you're finding with your frozen nozzles is not frozen
ww antifreeze, but rather water that has condensed (or melted snow)
and frozen on the tips of the nozzles.

Why doesn't the anti-freeze keep it thawed? Because overnight the fluid
ever so slowly but surely overnight seeps back down the lines, so no
antifreeze is in contact with that frozen "pure" water.

However, as you suggest, a warm thumb will melt it, and if you
quickly give it a shot of fluid to let antifreeze at it it will stay
good all day :)

Take care.

Ken

in contact with the nozzle.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Art wrote:
> Ethylene glycol is a sweet tasting poison and should not be used unless you
> like dead dogs in your neighborhood,



That's what commercial washer fluid has in it-the cheap stuff is 25%
methanol water and the high dollar stuff is 25% methanol, 25% ethylene
glycol and water. I do not think they care because how many people will
run off enough from the wipers to kill a dog?
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> Peter Daly wrote:
>
>
>>"Huge Goat Schmeisser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>
>> > SharkmanBMW wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> the "liquid" is also good for temps of -40celcius.
>> >> so it is not really an issue, until it hits the cold windshield...
>> >> then it will sometimes freeze.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The problem is, that -40º fluid sits in the nozzles overnight,
>> > evaporating off the methanol fraction. Minus the alcohol, washer

>>fluid > is just water and detergent.
>> >
>> > And guess what water does at -40º? Nozzles can and do freeze up.
>> >

>>
>>Huge Goat, if we were to believe that tripe, we wouldn't bother using
>>windshield washers at all, because following your theory, the "fluid
>>sits in the nozzles overnight, evaporating off the methanol
>>fraction"! Nonesense Huge Goat! "the metanol fraction" does not
>>evaporate overnight! Give your head a shake Huge Goat!

>
>
>
>
> Perhaps you need to give your own head a shake.
>
> I live in Ontario, Canada. I suppose I'm imaging the frozen nozzles I
> /personally/ experience at least a couple of times every single winter?
>
> By the way, a quick fix is to place a (warm) thumb over the nozzles for
> a minute (or as long as you can stand). This is often enough to thaw
> the fluid so as to allow the nozzles to function again. Once they start
> working, they're normally fine for the rest of the day, even if the
> temperature stays low.


maybe you need to stop pouring grit into your wiper fluid reservoir.
I live in Winnipeg, and have never had a nozzle freeze up. Had them
plug up with grit on one car once.

Only since 2003 have I been parking in a garage in the winter.

Ray
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
>
> That's what commercial washer fluid has in it-the cheap stuff is 25%
> methanol water and the high dollar stuff is 25% methanol, 25% ethylene
> glycol and water. I do not think they care because how many people will
> run off enough from the wipers to kill a dog?
>


Is this the same ethylene glycol used as antifreeze in coolant ?

The same E. G. thant says "kep off painted surfaces" as it rips the paint
off.

Why would they put it in WSW fluid then ? To strip off paint perhaps ?

I think not.

IMHO....just my two cents worth... YMMV etc etc

Nick
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
[email protected] wrote:
> I read an article about a washer liquid warmer in some of the new Buick
> Lucerne. My quick response was.... what a good idea. I noticed that
> some of the luxurious GM car (Cadillac) also has this feature. I wonder
> if this is really a good idea, especially if you live in a cold winter
> area, where temperature drop to 0 deg.F. Why haven't others (especially
> those luxurious brand name model cars) come up with the same idea, or
> have they?
> My related question is : If the ambient temperature is about 0 to minus
> 10 deg F, and you drive your car for about 20-30 minutes.... what would
> then be for the ambient temperature under the hood? Will the engine
> warm up the area under the hood to above 32F quickly?
> I notice that block heater is used in cold weather to jacket and warm
> the engine block, and it seems to work very well.... but will similar
> device be useful to warm up the container of the windshield liquid, so
> that the liquid comes out warm (above 32F) and melt the ice and snow in
> the windshield right away?
> Thanks for comment and discussion
>

You can warm the liquid up, but spraying it all over your car and
getting ice on the windshield wipers and so forth isn't the greatest
idea ever.

The answer is to use deicing washer fluid in cold temperatures.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Washer liquid warmer (now dead dogs)

I'd like you to explain how putting glycol in the washer fluid container has
anything to do with dead dogs?

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Art" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Ethylene glycol is a sweet tasting poison and should not be used unless you
like dead dogs in your neighborhood,


"Bret Ludwig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Just use straight methanol when it gets REALLY cold. Or methanol and
> undyed ethylene or propylene glycol. Put in just a little water and a
> dollop of clear soap. I use Palmolive.
>
> M100-straight methanol-is available from some gas stations. Don't use
> M85, it has gasoline in it.
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Why, doesn't every neighborhood have dogs that open the car, pop the hood,
and snap the cap off the windshield washer tank? And the same dogs go lick
the windshield. At least that's what Art has got to prove some how.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Peter Daly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Art wrote:

> Ethylene glycol is a sweet tasting poison and should not be used unless

you
> like dead dogs in your neighborhood,
>


>
>

I can't remember the last time my dog tried sucking the ethylene glycol
from my rad! But I do remember some jerks in France who mixed it with
their wine and poisoned a whole lotta people!
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It (Ethylene glycol) is also very effective paint remover...

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Art wrote:
>
> Ethylene glycol is a sweet tasting poison and should not be used unless you
> like dead dogs in your neighborhood,
>
> "Bret Ludwig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Just use straight methanol when it gets REALLY cold. Or methanol and
> > undyed ethylene or propylene glycol. Put in just a little water and a
> > dollop of clear soap. I use Palmolive.
> >
> > M100-straight methanol-is available from some gas stations. Don't use
> > M85, it has gasoline in it.
> >
 
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