[NZAE92]

hey all.
I haven't been on here in a while but have been doing a lot of research on bike carbs and Webers etc.
went to a place called weber specialties about half an hour away from my house to have a look around the place and let the guy have a look at what he could do with my engine.

He looked at twin side drafts and a down draft when he told me the price i almost went into shock. 3000 bucks just to get twin side drafts a manifold and installation. Im only a high school student, no wonder i just about comatosed.

A friend of mine while i was on Facebook chatted away about carbs etc and sent me a link showing 4 Yamaha R1 bike carbs and that got me thinking i could get his fabricator to make me an inlet manifold for the carbs i could get them bolted on and tune them and have an engine that would put out just as much power as it would with Webers.

Sorry bout the long post but thought i would share my thoughts and would really like to hear responses to this. I have already looked into the archives but i am wanting fresh views and things change over the years so it would be good to know what people think. :thumbsup:
Cheers Greg

 

[Flashmn]

3000 bucks just to get twin side drafts a manifold and installation.

Holy shit. I got my twin webers for 150euros + 170euros for a manifold. I did the linkage myself and installation, but still 3000 is shitload for them, unless they were brand new out of the box carbs.

As for bike carbs, I had keihin CVK carbs on my bike, I had problems passing emissions testing with them, otherwise they were fine... Hard to tune when the float bowls are on the bottom side of the carb, very had access. lol. Eventually I ditched the keihins for the webers and passed emissions in one shot.

How bout using CBR/hayabusa throttle bodies and a stand alone ECU.

 

[NZAE92]

they were out of the box brand new weber side drafts but he quoted me like 2000 for reconditioned ones so it's still a shit load of money.

i am really considering 4 bike carbs from an R1 but would have to get them shipped over here because there aren't any on trademe and even if there were some they would be atleast 400 bucks.

busa T.b's and a stand alone ecu would be nice but if my engine has a carb on it already i may aswell just hook the R1 carbs up to where the old one was.
i will have to either get a manifold casted or a plate that goes over where the old manifold was so i can just tesy fit them. also the guy at weber specs said that they had to get a special manifold casted and sent from south africa, im just wondering if he was sorta using me as a cash flow machine since in only 17.

 

[Flashmn]

The bike carbs arent going to be a plug and play thing, plus your throttle movement is going to be REALLY short.

also the guy at weber specs said that they had to get a special manifold casted and sent from south africa, im just wondering if he was sorta using me as a cash flow machine since in only 17.

Man he's taking you on for a ride there....I'd avoid that place like it had the plague.

 

[NZAE92]

i know it's not going to be plug and play nothing is really any way. A guy on youtube has done the exact same thing with the exact same carbs on a 4age
--->

theres his video.

I had a feeling he was trying to con me im not going back there. i can't afford 3000 bucks any way, even if he does have lots of experience. he can get stuffed IMHO.

 

[Flashmn]

I had a similar setup on my AE92 as those carbs... Like I said its a big hassle for what gains you get and with an AE92 the space to get the flowbowls and jets out is quite alot less than that of the AE86, where you can acces them from the side. I got pissed off at the take the carbs off and changed the jets, install the carbs and go for a ride, repeat MANY times. Whilst on a weber you can access it from the top under two screw on hats.

 

[canadianae92]

weber side drafts or id say a down draft for a 4af
i got my dcoe 40s for 200
even the dcoe kit for a 4ag is less that $2000, he tryin to rip you off son

here is a quote of my response to a similar question on club4ag

Also i was going to go the r1 carb route with a standalone computer for edis ignition but after thinking it over, there are jets available from yamaha dealers but how the other settings? can you modify when the cross over from idle/low revs to the main circuit? can you change pump jets? these are a couple of things I wondered when considering this option. I'm still learning about carburetors so personally I thought it might be in my best interest to go where the information is, and there is a definite lack of info on the r1 carbs.
The weber carbs I bought are old dcoe 40 models, bought them for 200 canadian, manifold and injector plugs was 250. Fuel pump filters and pressure regulator with gauge was about 100(although i spent more getting stainless lines, an fittings, and a fuel cell). msd coil, 6al, and timing computer was about 300.
I spent some extra money getting an assortment of main jets, air correctors, pump jets, rebuild kits, shorter trumpets, synchro meter, top mount dual spring linkage and stuff like that.
So all in all it wasn't that big of an investment for the piece of mind, flexibility, and information on this setup. Not all the stuff I bought was necessary either, I could have done a cheap ignition setup for less than $100 using a chevy HEI ignition module, I didn't have to rebuild my carbs, etc. With this setup I have flexibility down the road as well, you can change and modify webers so much, they are pretty flexible. Like what I was talking about earlier about crossover, on webers there are many emulsion tubes available that basically control the character of the crossover.
I might sound like I'm sponsored by weber or that maybe I'm a weber dealer, I'm not but.... maybe I should be.... My point is that going with an available aftermarket carburetor setup might be the best idea for flexibility down the road, it doesn't have to be weber... theres mikuni solex side drafts, and dellorto side drafts also, you will see a pair of side drafts come up for sale every once and a while for $100-$300 on here and other websites.
I was never able to find much information other than a service manual for the r1 carbs, I was worried that some settings that might be adjustable on other carbs might be cast into the carbs like how a lot of factory carburetors are.
Just given you a heads up that a few hundred might save you the hassle later.

 

[ELUSIV Rolla]

Nicely done on the comment above.

Come down to Napier bro, neighbour probably got enough crap lying in the shed to make the 92 fly lol.

 

[NZAE92]

thats what you call learning (not trying to be a smart ass) you will get it done faster each time you take them off. Im still learning and this is a good chance for me to advance it lol.

it's gonna hopefully not be too long to finish maybe a week or so to install and tune/jet.

How long did it take you and what sorta advantages did you get also what engine did you have 4af or 4age?.:thumbsup:

 

[NZAE92]

cheers canadianae92 for that comment.
ellusiv wish i could travel down to napier but petrol is so expensive these days i would if i could lol.
Im still really interested in the individual carb setup but webers would be awesome they are so expensive though over in new zealand.
the good thing with bike carbs is there are lots of them on ebay and they are like at the most 200NZD whilst they go for like 400-500 bucks here. If the project does go out the window i can always make money selling them.

 

[canadianae92]

just watch club4ag, tn, dorikaze, and whatever other sites for used carbs man, ive seen numerous carb setups come up for sale in the $100-$300 range sometimes with manifold and linkage and sometimes its dcoe 40s or 45s or mikuni solex's or dellortos, there is also a lot of information on solex's and dellortos just as much as webers

im all for trying the r1 carbs but just remember they were designed for a particular engine so if anything that is necessary to be adjusted for it to run properly with your motor is cast into the housing it may never run properly

i know the old factory carbs on north american carbs sometimes had certain things cast into the carb that would otherwise be adjustable on a aftermarket unit

make sure you read about at least reading spark plug and tailpipe deposits and get a synchrometer, the color of deposits on your sparkplugs or tailpipe can tell you if you are running lean or rich or just right, or you could get a wideband

 

[Flashmn]

make sure you read about at least reading spark plug and tailpipe deposits and get a synchrometer

Reading sparkplugs only tells you if you're running the correct temp plug. Tailpipe deposits dont work with modern unleaded fuels.
Synchrometer is the way to go to get them synched and a 4 gas analyzer, wideband lambda sensor and a dynamometer are the only ways to get them perfect.

 

[canadianae92]

it still works with unleaded, ive seen spark plugs show signs of air fuel mixture with unleaded gas, its not the same as leaded but something that sees combustion that close will always show signs of lean mixture and rich mixture

tail pipe i haven't tried on unleaded but i know they used to do it with leaded

but yes dyno or wide band are the only true accurate ways

 

[NZAE92]

i think im gonna go ahead with it.

Its good experience for me and if i need help i have a friend that works at toyota or you guys on here.
I'm hoping i can find parts close to home and not have them shipped over from america. Postage will be through the roof.

 

[Flashmn]

i have a friend that works at toyota

That wont really help in either case, unless they actually have knowledge working with webers or bike carbs. Their training nowadays consists of mostly OBD diagnostics and repair there-of.

 

[ELUSIV Rolla]

That wont really help in either case, unless they actually have knowledge working with webers or bike carbs. Their training nowadays consists of mostly OBD diagnostics and repair there-of.

They (tend to) have tools to do tuning etc in shop... I think that may have been more the point.

 

[Flashmn]

I seldom see any "tuning tools" in factory repair shops, only tools they have is a 4-gas analyzer for exhaust emissions and maybe a diagnostic system, but those wouldnt really help much in this case. Most places dont have the necessary tools for tuning cars, dynometer/rolling road, wideband lambda. Most factory repair shops dont have any jets for carbs (other than their own brand) and knowledge of carb tuning is kinda dead nowadays, the younger people dont know how to do it and the older ones are retired.

 

[ELUSIV Rolla]

Maybe it's just my local Toyota workshop, they did all the work for a BT AE86 with Webers in shop... Dunno what the deal behind it was, but yeah, all in shop. May just be a case of who you know down these ways. Either way, damn that 86 was coooool.

 

[canadianae92]

I seldom see any "tuning tools" in factory repair shops, only tools they have is a 4-gas analyzer for exhaust emissions and maybe a diagnostic system, but those wouldnt really help much in this case. Most places dont have the necessary tools for tuning cars, dynometer/rolling road, wideband lambda. Most factory repair shops dont have any jets for carbs (other than their own brand) and knowledge of carb tuning is kinda dead nowadays, the younger people dont know how to do it and the older ones are retired.

this is pretty much the case

best chance for modern carb knowledge would probably be a bike shop, or yamaha dealer if you need help with your carbs

 

[NZAE92]

The guy that i know has twin throat webers on his 4age he has spent 10k on it and has never heard it start because he can't find a t50 gearbox to suit his ke20.

i won't be using him for tuning etc it would just be for linking up the vac lines fuel lines and throttle cables etc since i don't know anything about the vast amount of lines that the standard carb has.
Im looking forward to it, it'll be my very first major project on the engine.
just need to source the parts may have to post some links up to see what people think and if i should purchase.