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Whether or not Toyota includes particular feature at a trim level probably has more to do with customer segmentation rather than cost. The Highlander/Lexus RX350 platform goes from about $31K to $52K The package of features at various price points are designed to extract as much as possible from the entire line from as many customers as possible. I think we would be shocked at how little most the upgrades cost to include as they amount to little more than different pieces of plastic and electronics that cost very little to produce in bulk. I would be surprised if the cost difference to produce the $31K to $52K version was more than $5K. Allocate $1000 for the more expensive engine/drive train, $1000 for the interior upgrades, $1000 for exterior plastic, $1000 for technology R&D, and you quickly run out of ways to spend even that.

So, when you are asking why a particular upgrade isn't included in a trim, the answer isn't what it would cost but that wanted people to pay a higher trim for it. The price points for the Highlander trims are like a perfectly spaced ladder with about $1500 between each rung.
 

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'18 HL Ltd
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...I would be surprised if the cost difference to produce the $31K to $52K version was more than $5K....
Many, as in many, years ago I saw an interview with a GM executive. He was asked why a Cadillac cost $5K more than a Chevrolet (I told you it was many years ago) when it only cost $1K more to produce? His answer was "Because people will pay $5K more."
 

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heres some OCD dislikes LOL

i always thought the vynal padding on the arm rest and against the door was cheap. you can FEEL how thin they are. kids will destroy them.

shifter knob could look a little fancier. like stiching around the leather.

carpeting to go up the side of the center console so when ur foot kicks it, it wont leave a ton of scratches like the plastic does.

apple car play. finally happening but not till next gen highlander this fall

add some stichign on door. its to bland

brown plastic trim on doors look chesy and scratch easily

NO IGHTINING for under the dash where your feet are. at night if u drop something, even with all interior lights on, ucant see down there
 

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2014 Highlander LE
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^ makes sense. (I did specify "for me" and did mention in some verbage... the expectation for those paying for a feature loaded trim should expect for what is offered to work...etc).
So , yes I agree
 

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2012 Camry SE V6
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Discussion Starter #65
You guys saying about two clocks not being sync'd.. is that a 2016 and below issue? I looked yesterday but didn't find a clock on my nav screen..Mines a 2018.. Am I missing something ?
 

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You guys saying about two clocks not being sync'd.. is that a 2016 and below issue? I looked yesterday but didn't find a clock on my nav screen..Mines a 2018.. Am I missing something ?
It's an issue on all of them (2018 here): When DST changed I noticed that the time of arrival while using the navigating was off by an hour; had to go into the setup and toggle the DST setting (the blue LED clock was correct because I had manually changed it). Not sure where the NAV displays the time otherwise; but it uses it for time of arrival.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
It's an issue on all of them (2018 here): When DST changed I noticed that the time of arrival while using the navigating was off by an hour; had to go into the setup and toggle the DST setting (the blue LED clock was correct because I had manually changed it). Not sure where the NAV displays the time otherwise; but it uses it for time of arrival.
ohh. ok. I have yet to use the Nav so I will have to look into changing that..
 

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Its a volume seller so yes, minimal cost cutting definitely factors into the big picture of margin. On the flip side, sure Toyota could've offered it with an additional charge to maintain their margin targets but I'm sure the business case to support it meant pushing the price of the HL even higher into a territory that would jeporadize sales and cross into Lexus markets, which coicindently is where you find these options.

You're trying to equate manufacturing cost with what people are willing to pay. Two completely different animals.


There have been many features over the years that were extremely cheap for manufacturers to make, but were expensive for the customer. Why? Because people were willing to pay for it.


. Intermittent wipers, Heated Seats just to name a couple. The manufacturing cost for Intermittent wipers was less then a dollar. When they first came out - you could only find them on high-end models. Now why is that you ask? Because the manufacturers want you to pay for it. It's as simple as that.


My 1990 Pathfinder - in order to get Intermittent wipers from the factory I had to buy an Automatic. Why in the world would they put those options together? Luckily Nissan sold a kit so I could add intermittent wipers for about $60.
 

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You're trying to equate manufacturing cost with what people are willing to pay. Two completely different animals.


There have been many features over the years that were extremely cheap for manufacturers to make, but were expensive for the customer. Why? Because people were willing to pay for it.
The literal interpretation of my quoted statement would indicate so. However, that was a gross oversimplification of costs/pricing with the assumption there was an understanding that there are several more factors. So no, my intent was not to imply there was a direct correlation but rather that a holistic approach to market pricing will take into account manufacturing costs, what people are willing to pay, and many other variables (just to be clear). So while it may only cost $1, and if they choose to make it standard or as an option, they'll price it accordingly, which may or may not drive it into a pricing territory that people are not willing to pay for said product. As you said, the manufacturers want you to pay for it.
 

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I think Car play/Android Auto will become the norm in the next 5-7years. At least that's my hope! Works so much better than all these proprietary systems.
I hope so too. These proprietary systems are popular by manufacturers because they are much higher profit margin for the manufacturers. Manufacturers have been playing this game with audio manufacturers for years. First they started making the audio systems in weird shapes so no one would copy. Then they added steering-wheel controls, then manufacturers (GM) added their ECU software updates to go through the audio system. All because the higher profit margin.
 

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Finally made it through this thread.

My dislikes are:
1)Not only that the USB ports in the front are poorly lit, but they are extremely awkward to even get to and being right above about 4 other switches tends to cause undesired pushing of those switches. Twice my wife has turned on snow mode while trying to plug in.
2)I will second the lack of trans dip stick and raise the issue of the Rube Goldberg method of checking and changing the ATF.
3)Also second the trans shift logic, particularly how it downshifts on the slightest upgrade and/or with a decent headwind. I've driven a few Ford F-150s in my dealer trade driver job. Some of them have a visual indication of what gear the trans is actually in. From what I've seen it takes quite a slope for the trans to downshift. Very nice.
 

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Agree with many points - cheap, easily scratched plastic, half-heated wheel (WHY?), jiggly captain’s chairs, no HID headlights (which, in fairness, I knew when I purchased)

One that really bothers me and my wife is around smart key locking. When exiting the car with multiple people, the driver must wait for all doors to be closed before touching the lock portion of the handle. If it’s touched before everyone is out of the car, there’s a lot of beeping and nothing happens. On my other car, a BMW, I can touch the lock portion of the handle and walk away without waiting for everyone. The driver’s door locks immediately but the rest of the doors won’t lock (and the car won’t give the confirmation chirp) until everyone else has closed their doors. Once the last door closes, all doors lock and the car chirps. This is the way it should work!! We’ve had the BMW for five years and there are no drawbacks to the approach that we’ve been able to detect.

Are we the only ones irritated by the Highlander making you wait to lock?
I'm with you on this one.
The biggest ones for me however so far are:
1. Transmission and gear selections - the car is absolutely horrible when making 90 degree turns. It can't decide which gear it wants to be in so it ends up jerking on acceleration every time.
2. Lack of paddle shifters on SE. If I had the paddle shifters like on our SE Camry that we traded in, I could self eliminate problems from #1 above.
3. Lack of hood struts. Really???? I thought that this is a standard on cars nowadays. Camry had it.
4. #3 gets exacerbated by the fact that the hood weighs a ton. Why couldn't they put an alu hood on this car?
5. No tire pressure reading
 

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I’ve driven our new Limited a few times so consider this a first blush list.

1. The center storage cover/arm rest is much to slippery. I can’t rest my forearm without feeling that it will slip off, which it does too frequently. Wish the material had more grip. The lower cfovwr is easily unlatched when my hand rests over it.

2. The angle of the nav screen allows for to much glare. The resolution is poor.

3. Wish the front passenger seat had more adjustments.

4. Wish the dials on the HVAC had more dampening. They feel cheap and loose.

5. Wish it had Apple Car Play.

6. Wish the Nav system had more view options. Over-air updates, too.

7. Wish it was possible to download my iphone contact list and automatically update it when the iPhone was connected via Bluetooth or cable.

8. When my wife is driving, and and she is using the iPhone hands free through the car, callers can hear themselves (delayed). Not sure if this is an iPhone issue or not.

9. Dislike the cruise control arm. Wish it was incorporated into the face of the steering wheel.

Despite all this, I like the Highlander and more importantly, my wife is happy. Happy wife happy life.
 

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This is my third Toyota in the last ten years. In the meantime I have owned several cars with cruise controls on the steering wheel. I think the stalk system is actually easier to use. Yes, your muscle memory can locate the steering wheel control but just a little off will activate another button. Once you learn the stalk is several inches lower than the wiper control it is actually easier to locate without looking than controls on the steering wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
This is my third Toyota in the last ten years. In the meantime I have owned several cars with cruise controls on the steering wheel. I think the stalk system is actually easier to use. Yes, your muscle memory can locate the steering wheel control but just a little off will activate another button. Once you learn the stalk is several inches lower than the wiper control it is actually easier to locate without looking than controls on the steering wheel.
This right here.. I have zero issues with the style of cruise control on Toyotas...I'm in the same boat.. first toyota was and 07 taco, I have a 12 Camry, and also an 18 Lander.. I like the stalk control way better than buttons on the wheel for the exact reasons stated above..Don't even have to take your eyes off the road to find the correct button unlike our Jeep we traded with the buttons on the wheel..I don't use cruise very often either and once you learn the control its second nature without looking even if it has been months since I used cruise..
 

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...I like the stalk control way better than buttons on the wheel for the exact reasons stated above..Don't even have to take your eyes off the road to find the correct button unlike our Jeep we traded with the buttons on the wheel..I don't use cruise very often either and once you learn the control its second nature without looking even if it has been months since I used cruise..
+1. My third HL since '02 with mostly GM products in between or concurrently and other than a few days to acclimate the muscle memory there's no issue with the stalk.
 

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Hood struts would be nice. My rotator cuff hates to lift the hood.

On my ’13 HL, I could open the back hatch without unlocking the entire vehicle. Handy at the recycling drop-off bins that are busy as a beehive. Can’t do that with my ’18 HL Ltd. It unlocks the whole car! I’m still trying to figure out how to open the back hatch only, with the rest of the HL staying locked. Probably in the manual somewhere, I hope …. and I read that thing until my eyes were bleeding.

Like someone said, no car is perfect unless you want to pay $200k. It’s all about price points. At the end of the day, these are small annoyances that I can live with. I bought the HL for its overall reliability and 20 years positive experience of owning Toyota products. I would do it all over again today.
 
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