[grumpyandesther]

We have a 2020 le with 10 k miles. We're getting regularly 38+ mpg on hw. 36+ in town. Had the dealer ( not Toyota) service it an the guy left oil filter loose. We lost the oil about 2 mi from the dealership on the freeway doing ,75. Car automaticly dropped into limp mode luckily we got off the road safe. They rescued us an redid the oil ect, no cleaning up which was really bad. Question is we now can not get much over 35 mpg. Could there be that much damage to drag it down that quick? Or is something else maybe the cause??
Any thoughts or experience in this appreciated.
Grumpyone

 

[invader]

We have a 2020 le with 10 k miles. We're getting regularly 38+ mpg on hw. 36+ in town. Had the dealer ( not Toyota) service it an the guy left oil filter loose. We lost the oil about 2 mi from the dealership on the freeway doing ,75. Car automaticly dropped into limp mode luckily we got off the road safe. They rescued us an redid the oil ect, no cleaning up which was really bad. Question is we now can not get much over 35 mpg. Could there be that much damage to drag it down that quick? Or is something else maybe the cause??
Any thoughts or experience in this appreciated.
Grumpyone

Which dealer was it; Chrysler, GMC, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan? Which grade of oil did they put in; 0W-20, 5W-30? Is it overfilled?

 

[Atombum65]

You need to get an analysis done on the oil to make sure there was no damage. I would not let the dealer who messed up your oil change do this - go somewhere else and pay for it.

If there was any damage, the dealer needs to pay for repairs and provide a rental/loaner.

This is why nobody but me (or one of my sons) changes the oil in my vehicles.

 

[Vegashybrid]

Take a sample of your oil and send it to Blackstone for analysis. No one can argue with the results they provide.

 

[retiredat444]

small claims court on the place who did this. actually smal claims has what, a $10,00 limit. You have to demand to be re-imbursed first, then file the papers with your local court if they say no. I would try to find an attorney with consumer matters. YOu automatically get a boost for that with the law.

you could burn parts and that would not always show up in the oil. It can score pistons and bearings. if you score pistons from heat, they will never work properly again, no matter what.

 

[grumpyandesther]

Thanks I will change oil air filter oil filter an chk tote pressure right after I get a oil sample an see that it is still down.
Thanks for the feedback.
That was first time anyone but myself changed my oil in over 30 years. Didn't work so well either.

 

[grumpyandesther]

It was a large Ford dealer.

 

[invader]

It was a large Ford dealer.

Did they put in Motorcraft 0W-20 synthetic blend or full synthetic? Did you check the oil level?

 

[alltoyo]

There is almost no doubt damage was done that will show up later and there are many scenarios. I would expect some serious compensation. Maybe trade the car in for new and the repair shop pay the difference in value or a fair portion.

 

[wheatthin]

small claims court on the place who did this. actually smal claims has what, a $10,00 limit. You have to demand to be re-imbursed first, then file the papers with your local court if they say no. I would try to find an attorney with consumer matters. YOu automatically get a boost for that with the law.

you could burn parts and that would not always show up in the oil. It can score pistons and bearings. if you score pistons from heat, they will never work properly again, no matter what.

Small claim court's maximum limits change from state to state, the $10,000 limit you've referenced is for a given state, such as CA. IMHO, most dealerships will have insurance for this sort of catastrophe and may be willing to file without needing to go to court, but if not. Find an attorney, as a new mill, time, rent-a-car, etc. will easily exceed $10,000. In today's world, the month or more for the dealer to stab a new mill in a car, will run the rental (or loaner) cost alone, to $1,500 or more. If you are dealing with a reputable and honest dealership (good luck) they may just do what is right, without the courts, but if not, the courts may not see it their way.

 

[wheatthin]

There is almost no doubt damage was done that will show up later and there are many scenarios. I would expect some serious compensation. Maybe trade the car in for new and the repair shop pay the difference in value or a fair portion.

Sir, I don't disagree with your sentiment; however, if you thought about the trade you've proposed, it would be with the same dealership that did the damage to start with. I would leave them out of the equation completely.

 

[recalled]

I am generally opposed to just suing, but I am in the "sue the dealership for damages" group. I am also in the "drain the oil and send a sample of it to Blackstone" group.

Even if there is NO damage to the engine after a catastrophic oil loss like that, I can assure you that nobody with any sense would knowingly and willingly buy a car with an engine they know lost all its oil while running. Especially at highway speeds. If the dealership says that it doesn't matter, tell them to drain the oil from all their cars, run them down the highway, and then fill them back up with oil and sell then like nothing happened. Logic says that if they decline it, or balk or disagree with that, they know there is a chance of engine damage.

I am NOT faulting you, but I would also not have even bothered with taking it back to them. I would have collected the filter that fell off (I would keep the filter as evidence in case the situation requires court) and then had it towed to Toyota where they would verify that the filter was missing, and then called the Ford dealer from the Toyota service department. I would sue the dealership for a NEW engine and all the labor at Toyota to do the change, as well as your loaner car replacement (which I would also get from Toyota), and any inconvenience fees you are legitimately out.

I have a friend who had a similar thing happen with their Matrix, but they did not sue and they also went back to the idiots at the Ford dealer. It was the wife's car and she did take the filter back because it was literally as she pulled out of the dealership, and probably happened within 100 metres of their entrance. If your car hadn't sensed low oil pressure and it had locked up on the Interstate at speed, it could have ended quite badly.

And as for that mechanic, nobody that is that stupid or incompetent should be allowed to work on a car. Ever.

 

[fjguercio]

Sorry to hear this.
There are 2 problems, lack of lubrication and overheating of part inside engine.
No mention of were you are and climate. If you are in cold area and the temp dropped that could be a few mpg

I suggest,
Finding a shop or engine builder you can trust.
Need a warm compression test... this could be a "task" because some V6 engines need to have the plenium removed to access the rear spark plugs, The cylinders will need to be bore scoped at this time also with pictures of each cylinder. Looking for drops in compression and for scoring on the cylinder walls. Digital pics with the date/time on the image. Shop will put a report together on findings and with the pics in report.

Picks of each spark plug inserted into cardboard sheet and labeled 1-6 etc. Looking for condition, over heat or hot conditions, oil burning. Any Tells on the spark plugs would keep then in card board and install new ones. Pics and report should be note. Use the Denso plugs noted for your engine.

These are some of the failure points you can SEE without great investment. The lifters and cam, and the rod bearings cannot be seen w/o a engine tear down.... thousands of dollars that may or may not be needed. At 10 k miles your engine should be just getting broken in. I do an early engine oil change at 500-1000 miles on new car and would do a second at 2000 miles before going to the 4k oil changes.

I would recommend at very good oil filter, synthetic membrane, to catch any metal glitter in your engine. Looking for 95-99 capture at 15-20 micron. Mobil One comes to mind, not the time to have a cheap Frame Filter. True for the next few oil changes. Go with your engine builder recommendation but after you get all the junk, metal, scortched oil out of your engine and have run for a few thousand miles...... may be time for a good dyno oil to RE Scuff your lifters and cams... Have read that Synthetics are such good lubrication that may not be the best for break in on engines. You will be doing another engine break in if all tests out ok on this engine. It is not a good situation

The loose oil filter if still on the car is something to keep....
Did they tighten the same filter and fill with oil again.
How much oil was added after road failure
How much oil was left in the oil pan after the road failure
Did you have a puddle of oil on the road were you broke down, did you take a picture (s)
Was there on oil showing on the dip stick after your road failure.... did you or the "next" shop note this & pics
was this noted on the work order
Was any oil left in the oil pan.
Buy a magnetic oil drain plug and get it installed asap
The oil in the car now after the road failure.... should be changed again in 50-100 miles
Oil should be checked for glitter, magnet run thru it, and reported by professional on paper & pics. This is the oil & filter that will show the most for testing..... low miles too

This oil change and next oil change needs a review for metal..... should be changed again in 200 miles if any metal was found above in the after road failure oil change... magnetic drain plug was installed when looking for metal in engine. IF metal found above found in chunks.... Pan should be dropped, the oil pick up should be checked, cleaned or replaced..... Looking for metal, possible piston skirt pcs that are aluminum and not attracted to the magnets. Run stick magnet in the drain plug looking for metal shavings, metal chunks, pcs of bearings

Keep all of these 3 oil filter in plastic zip lock, labeled.
Keep some of each oil change in a mason jar, labeled

Kind of oil can make a difference... Synthetic should have been used and will have a film that will lubricate longer and keep engine cooler than std oil at times of stress like this. Long trips at 80 mph and so forth. I would never change my oil at 10k like in the toyota manual 4-5K miles and 6 mo max. Learn how to change your own oil can show you a great deal on how car is doing. For these oil changes you need to have a shop do it and look for these type of problems and looking for metal failure, over temp dark oil, even run a stick magnet in the oil drain plug. Pics and documentation will be the key to get any settlement.

After you do this work.... then you can have the oil / filter evaluation.

I would like to know more on how you found the need to stop on the hwy? Idiot ck engine light, oil light, noise, over heating.... engine making any hot type cooling noise like tink tink tink?

ANY idea of how much oil was left in the oil pan after you got towed?? The oil filter leak stopped once the running engine was no longer pumping oil.... the filter could drain or stay full like a cup with the oil above running over the "cup". Did the shop drain the oil pan after the hwy failure and tow to shop??? and how much oil??? did they note on paper work???What was this shop/was it the same Ford dealer???

If you are in the Chicago IL this would be a good one for the CarCareNut on youtube.
This will not be a easy task for someone that does not change their own oil knowledge wise, IMO.

 

[starkeef_5452]

Why oh why do people take their vehicles to dealers? Do some research and find a repair place that has good reviews and take it there. Good mechanics who do good work for reasonable prices survive on their expertise in diagnosing and repairing problems. Dealers have two areas to cover repairs and sales. I'm not saying that there aren't some competent dealers out there but you're better off finding a repair shop that lives off good reviews. A hint as to finding a good place is that they have at least a week or two wait for an appointment. It says everything and it's a place you want to call.

 

[HappyHollowView]

You need to get an analysis done to determine the damage and the repairs required and the Est Costs. Do not let the dealer who messed up your oil change do this - go to a different AUTHORIZED REPAIR DEALER. get a WRITTEN estimate. If there was any damage, the first dealer should to pay for repairs and provide a rental/loaner.

"Should, as with "if," spoils many a good story. So, you want to be prepared. Thus gather the FACTS and DOCUMENTATION to ESTABLISH

1. There was damage far beyond the loss of the oil at highway speeds.
2. Collaborating evidence articles affidavits (esp DEALER BULLETINS!) alleging the correlation between / causation of the damages found and the loss of oil at highway speeds.

With a third-party witness in tow, return to the negligent dealer and request the new piston rings/engine overhaul/replacement (indicated repair(s) required) per independent dealer/expert witness as well as reimbursement for any expense incurred in getting the estimate of damages/repairs required from the other Toyota dealer.

If the negligent dealer refuses, ask to speak to the manager/owner and document any statements made. You might also ask to speak to a factory representative and document anything he/she says by way of denying your requested repairs. (all witnessed o course)

Now, you know what's wrong. You know the negligent dealer refuses to repair your vehicle and his/their rationale and may even have the factory rep on record as well.

Assuming the negligent dealer's refusal made no sense at all and you firmly believe these repairs are needed and can be attributed to the loss of oil, you may consider a Small Claims Court action.

Someone wrote about a $10,000 limitation - but (as with a woman's right to chose) this varies from state to state so you need to check it out - easy online in most states. Then, I would suggest that you contact a Court Reporting Service that works in your local small claims venue - find out what they charge to transcribe a hearing in SCC. Trust me, having an official record of the proceedings made impresses the court (in this case, the judge. Mine asked "Why" I hired one and I answered "Your honor, if I lose the case, I would need the transcript for the appeal.") It didn't hurt my case (Against General Motors) at all.

You will also want to learn of all the fees involved. You will want to $erve the owner of the Dealership - so you will need to look that up (should be able to do so online) in state corporate records or local jurisdiction licensing office. It is likely you will not need to serve or even have anyone from the dealership that diagnosed the damages and estimated the repairs so long as you have that written (detailed) estimate in hand and can testify that you provided a copy to the negligent dealership when they refused to repair your vehicle.

If you know a mechanic or two willing to take off work to testify for you as to their experience with rapid oil loss and the subsequent damages experienced, rehearse a few questions with them to be sure they won't screw up too badly and tell them you can only reimburse travel expenses and a promise to owe them a solid should the need arise. Or, perhaps, if they were VERY GOOD and had courtroom experience, you could pay them a Day Rate as an Expert Witness which fees you could estimate and add to your demand for payment - worth a shot.

In Florida, I had a repair shop refuse to release my car without I pay him in cash money - no checks or credit card would be accepted (though he advertised acceptance of credit cards. I was able to bond my car out by paying the cash to the court conditioned upon a hearing to be scheduled. With an order from the local court in hand I was able to get my car back that day. The hearing was scheduled, he did not respond. My money was returned to me he got $0.00. In a sense, he admitted responsibility. You may be able to pull this off in your location - check it out.

If you do go to SCC, remember, only you can put your foot in your mouth. So plan what you are going to say (essentially repeat your written claim six ways from Sunday) and say as little else as possible. When questioned about facts of the case PAUSE, if necessary or convenient, repeat the question to gather your wits so as to answer truthfully with minimal elaboration: The Facts, Just the Facts. As you are NOT an 'expert' witness, you may confine yourself to answering only those FACTS you are privy to and answering "I don't know," when the question might lead another to speculation or conjecture based upon "common sense" which might get you that taste of toe you wanted to avoid.

If you have the time, stop by your local community college and take Business Law I & II - couldn't hurt.

 

[2005 es330]

Had the dealer ( not Toyota) service it an the guy left oil filter loose

To the guy that says the guys at the dealer are well trained, 2 years training etc. Not like the quick lubes. This is why I say do your own oil changes, do not trust any shop to do it for you.

 

[HappyHollowView]

1) "Why oh why do people take their vehicles to dealers?"
2) "Do some research and find a repair place that has good reviews and take it there."

1. Because Dealerships have DEEP POCKETS, have all the requisite tools, mechanics who have completed factory training on the vehicles the dealer markets as well as hands-on experience repairing those vehicles in the Real World. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary - such as the failure of one dealership's mechanic to tighten a filter or a drain plug is worthless as we all know that "shit happens."

2. "Some research?" What am I Kneel's son" Really, shall we trust Googol Reviews? If they have all five stars, were they reviewed by relatives? by employees? bots? If they have some good and some bad reviews does that mean there's a 50-50 chance I'll get good service or bad advice? Shall I ask my neighbor where he takes his fiord?

You really need to be more specific as to how one is to conduct 'some research.'

 

[wheatthin]

I second fjguercio's post in this string. Regarding mag plugs-my belief is every drain plug should be a mag plug, a high-quality mag plug will last the life of the vehicle. They are not all created equally, some mfg's use rare earth magnets (much stronger and longer lasting), other don't. There is no doubt that mag plugs save wear and tear on mills/trans/diffs etc. They are worth every penny, buy the good ones, you'll be glad you did.

 

[2005 es330]

that "shit happens."

Ya, that shit happens... A lot at the dealer and shops. No excuse, It is very basic Autoshop 101.

 

[rl1990]

Why oh why do people take their vehicles to dealers? Do some research and find a repair place that has good reviews and take it there.

Mainly for conveince, the use of OE parts, and factory trained personnel. Also mechanics at dealers are used to seeing trends and doing repairs. Where your independent mechanic maybe doing his first transmission fluid change on a Camry and will have to refer to manuals to assist; the dealer tech will be on his 100th or more. Years ago I had a friend who worked at a Honda dealer. From experience he knew that 3 quarts of transmission fluid would fill up the transmission after a fluid change in all Hondas. He was past the warm it up check and add routine after many, many changes.

Just because they're independent shops doesn't mean that automatically makes them better and more honest than a dealer. The vast majority of mechanics that own or work at independent shops got their start at a dealer as the oil change guy and worked their way up. If he was a careless, unprofessional oil change guy he became a bad mechanic and moved on to be a crappy business owner with his own shop.