I mean half of the cars out there can be tuned with hand held tuners. My ZR1 Corvette was only months old when they cracked the code and could tune nearly every aspect of the cars performance. I can think of quite a few ways I would like to tune my HiHy.
Why hasn't someone hacked the computer?
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That, and the demographics of Highlander Hybrid owners.
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I'm sure it could be done, but somebody is going to have to see some potential profit in it before they invest the time and $$$ to do it. Most hybrid owners are far too geeky about everything being OEM. I doubt there is much market for such a low volume vehicle.
Well I would guess that ZR1s are even more rare.
There is a company that sells upgraded software for the 1st gen hihy, but only as part of an extended battery package which apparently can significantly increase MPG, but I doubt it.
I've done the temp hack, and it makes a bit of a difference, but I agree that this car could seriously benefit from some tuning.
I've done the temp hack, and it makes a bit of a difference, but I agree that this car could seriously benefit from some tuning.
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297 Posts
Quick, dirty and expensive fix http://www.pluginsupply.com/products/
yeah right
I don't know why Toyota didn't just make a 4 cyl hybrid version like the escape. Its not like most of us need 250+ hp...
12 grand for that? They're smoking crack - maybe if it made the car get 35+ mpg avg guaranteed, but this is an already overpriced, underperforming vehicle to begin with.
I don't know why Toyota didn't just make a 4 cyl hybrid version like the escape. Its not like most of us need 250+ hp...
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Because the Gen 2 weights at least 800lb more than the escape (3850 (in its heaviest configuration) vs 4650 (4750 for a Limited).
And the Gen 1 weights 400lb more (4275lb).
It would be under-powered/overworked with an I4.
We have an 09 with the 4 cyl, and don't find it overwhelmingly slow comapred to the 06 hybrid, but it gets better overall mpg while only sacrificing a little in acceleration and the luxury items...
I think a base model with a smaller powerplant and 2WD would cut costs considerably and increase fuel economy a bit as well. The base non-hybrid Highlander has a 4-cylinder option, I'd think the electric motor augmentation would handle the extra weight of the hybrid powertrain. You could shave some of that weight getting rid of stuff like a full-size spare, power seats and other areas where cars like Prius were optimized. Yeah, you'd lose the ability to do 0-60 in just over 7 seconds and tow 3500 lbs., but not everyone needs or even wants that when cost and fuel economy are the tradeoffs. For those who do want that, they can buy a higher trim. Even Lexus offers a 2WD version of the 450h that squeaks out an 1mpg more combined for less money.
I'm thinking it's a little similar to the Accord hybrid. Nice car, very good performance, but Honda learned through slow sales that the mediocre fuel economy for the relatively high price wasn't what potential hybrid buyers were wanting.
I'm thinking it's a little similar to the Accord hybrid. Nice car, very good performance, but Honda learned through slow sales that the mediocre fuel economy for the relatively high price wasn't what potential hybrid buyers were wanting.
Hi, I am new to this forum. Just purchased a 2010 Highlander Hybrid with some intent to modify it down the road. Unfortunately I am finding that there is not as much information out there for this vehicle as I had hoped. Back in 2012 I had talked with one company that supplied plug-in kits only to find out after I bought the vehicle that they no longer supported them for the newer HiHys because the software was too complicated to hack.
So I guess I will start with some low hanging fruit like an engine block heater and maybe the temp hack.
My question is does anyone have any updates to this thread for the newer Highlander models, i.e. has any extra info become available since the discussion started? How helpful are the aftermarket manuals like Chilton's etc? I have a bunch more questions but will hold off for now. Thanks!
So I guess I will start with some low hanging fruit like an engine block heater and maybe the temp hack.
My question is does anyone have any updates to this thread for the newer Highlander models, i.e. has any extra info become available since the discussion started? How helpful are the aftermarket manuals like Chilton's etc? I have a bunch more questions but will hold off for now. Thanks!
hacks, etc
I'm still surprised nobody has modified these more extensively. I have a friend who has the extended battery and software update on her 07 and she gets WAY better numbers than me even with the second battery dead.
My theory is that the CVT-ish transmission is the best route to improvement. Even without a real tachometer, I can tell the engine revs way too high in many driving situations. if the transmission would more aggressively shift up, mileage would be way better. As I understand it from the way my friend's modified car drives, this is what they changed.
I looked at trading up to the newer style as I have an 06 with nearly 200k miles, but even though I like the bigger more luxurious body, they are noticeably slower and porky handling. More then the MPG, I appreciate the passing and towing power of my oldschool Hyhy.
I have the temp hack, and in mild to cold weather, I maybe get a few mpg better on short trips, but nothing special.
I'm still surprised nobody has modified these more extensively. I have a friend who has the extended battery and software update on her 07 and she gets WAY better numbers than me even with the second battery dead.
My theory is that the CVT-ish transmission is the best route to improvement. Even without a real tachometer, I can tell the engine revs way too high in many driving situations. if the transmission would more aggressively shift up, mileage would be way better. As I understand it from the way my friend's modified car drives, this is what they changed.
I looked at trading up to the newer style as I have an 06 with nearly 200k miles, but even though I like the bigger more luxurious body, they are noticeably slower and porky handling. More then the MPG, I appreciate the passing and towing power of my oldschool Hyhy.
I have the temp hack, and in mild to cold weather, I maybe get a few mpg better on short trips, but nothing special.
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21 Posts
CVT, and yet not
The "CVT" that these things have isn't like any other... in fact, nothing "shifts" at all.
It's a simple 2-input, 1-output Planetary gearset... NOTHING changes, mechanically or physically.
Input-1 = the gas engine crank, after passing through a motor-generator.
Input-2 = the main front wheel electric drive motor-generator.
Output = differential for front wheel drive.
The planetary gearset "variable ratio" is simply a matter of the ratio of the two inputs. As the gas engine comes on and starts spinning, the MG2 speed decreases in order to keep the same forward vehicle speed.
Need reverse? Whether the gas engine is on or off, MG2 turns in reverse... simple for an electric motor... very hard for a gas engine.
It gets more complicated when you start talking about all the variations and differing conditions, but to be honest... this is one big reason I bought mine... NO TRANSMISSION TO GO BAD!! There simply isn't any parts to wear... no "friction clutches" or plates like normal automatic transmissions.... nothing "engages" or disengages, nothing in there moves, other than rotating parts, spinning in ball bearings.
Add to that the fact that these things are used almost universally by the major Taxi companies in the Northeaster states... they put 300k miles on them before selling them, and I have yet to read about traction battery packs getting weak and needing replacement. There's a reason Toyota limits the maximum depth of discharge to something like NO less than 30%, and maximum state of charge to no more (under normal conditions) of around 85%. This makes the battery pack last FAAAAR longer, than if they were allowed to fully charge or discharge.
Now, if I can just get my zp energy system to continually keep the traction pack charged, so the ICE doesn't have to waste energy to charge the pack, I'll be all set. ;-)
The "CVT" that these things have isn't like any other... in fact, nothing "shifts" at all.
It's a simple 2-input, 1-output Planetary gearset... NOTHING changes, mechanically or physically.
Input-1 = the gas engine crank, after passing through a motor-generator.
Input-2 = the main front wheel electric drive motor-generator.
Output = differential for front wheel drive.
The planetary gearset "variable ratio" is simply a matter of the ratio of the two inputs. As the gas engine comes on and starts spinning, the MG2 speed decreases in order to keep the same forward vehicle speed.
Need reverse? Whether the gas engine is on or off, MG2 turns in reverse... simple for an electric motor... very hard for a gas engine.
It gets more complicated when you start talking about all the variations and differing conditions, but to be honest... this is one big reason I bought mine... NO TRANSMISSION TO GO BAD!! There simply isn't any parts to wear... no "friction clutches" or plates like normal automatic transmissions.... nothing "engages" or disengages, nothing in there moves, other than rotating parts, spinning in ball bearings.
Add to that the fact that these things are used almost universally by the major Taxi companies in the Northeaster states... they put 300k miles on them before selling them, and I have yet to read about traction battery packs getting weak and needing replacement. There's a reason Toyota limits the maximum depth of discharge to something like NO less than 30%, and maximum state of charge to no more (under normal conditions) of around 85%. This makes the battery pack last FAAAAR longer, than if they were allowed to fully charge or discharge.
Now, if I can just get my zp energy system to continually keep the traction pack charged, so the ICE doesn't have to waste energy to charge the pack, I'll be all set. ;-)
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yeah...yall bought into the wrong demographic if your looking for a car to have its ECU modified by aftermarket tuners :dunno:
roboron, don't kid yourself, there is DEFINITLY things to go bad inside the CVT. And unfortunately a lot of times, when they do go bad, they aren't as easy to service as ATFs. Nissan has switched to mostly CVT's and I've read more than a few times, the usual course of action is a full CVT replacement with any kind of issue.
Do you see nothing? :lol: (and yes there clutches and pressure plates on the engine mount (its kinda similar to a manual setup....kinda)
gen 1-2:
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HiHL transaxle descbribed below:
But yeah, your right, there are a considerably smaller amount of clutch packs in the CVT vs a slushbox, but CVT's aren't some unbreakable device :lol: Granted toyota doesn't use chains/belts anymore, so that's a plus.
roboron, don't kid yourself, there is DEFINITLY things to go bad inside the CVT. And unfortunately a lot of times, when they do go bad, they aren't as easy to service as ATFs. Nissan has switched to mostly CVT's and I've read more than a few times, the usual course of action is a full CVT replacement with any kind of issue.
Do you see nothing? :lol: (and yes there clutches and pressure plates on the engine mount (its kinda similar to a manual setup....kinda)
gen 1-2:
HiHL transaxle descbribed below:
But yeah, your right, there are a considerably smaller amount of clutch packs in the CVT vs a slushbox, but CVT's aren't some unbreakable device :lol: Granted toyota doesn't use chains/belts anymore, so that's a plus.
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21 Posts
Still looking for your clutches you think are there... and where you think the "wear & tear" components are, COMPARED to normal wear & tear on 1950's style (which is still in use today, just more gears) "slushbox"... as you put it.
There is no "clutch" at the back of the ICE... only a damper... the minimal "friction" surfaces are never "released", or allowed to slip under normal conditions.
Electric motor/generators are not like engines... they just do not have "wear & tear" components. Planetary gearsets do not have "wear & tear" components... just hard gears.
BTW... hacking automotive computers isn't limited to just re-writing the OEM native code... if you piggyback another CPU onto it that "lies" to the native computer (modifying the inputs), letting it do what it thinks it's supposed to do, you have accomplished the same thing.
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There is no "clutch" at the back of the ICE... only a damper... the minimal "friction" surfaces are never "released", or allowed to slip under normal conditions.
Electric motor/generators are not like engines... they just do not have "wear & tear" components. Planetary gearsets do not have "wear & tear" components... just hard gears.
BTW... hacking automotive computers isn't limited to just re-writing the OEM native code... if you piggyback another CPU onto it that "lies" to the native computer (modifying the inputs), letting it do what it thinks it's supposed to do, you have accomplished the same thing.
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11,882 Posts
The transaxle damper has friction material, its not a severe usage as a clutch, but it kinda does something similar. It might not be suppose to slip, but its job is to allow minor movement to damper things (granted the springs do most of that, but that's still its function)
http://pdf.pdftown.com/nissan/altima/2010hb/TM.pdf pg 10
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/Hybrid02.pdf pg 6
I will admit, when I originally posted that, I did say there were wear and tear items. Having looked stuff up (and subsequently editing my post) toyota has moved away from the main wearing parts, and use gears in newer models. I was thinking they still used belts/chains which will wear, their first generation hybrid transaxles did use those.
I'm not saying there are a lot of wear items, your right, there aren't. I just think its foolish to think its has nothing to go wrong. But to each his own :thumbsup:
http://pdf.pdftown.com/nissan/altima/2010hb/TM.pdf pg 10
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/Hybrid02.pdf pg 6
I will admit, when I originally posted that, I did say there were wear and tear items. Having looked stuff up (and subsequently editing my post) toyota has moved away from the main wearing parts, and use gears in newer models. I was thinking they still used belts/chains which will wear, their first generation hybrid transaxles did use those.
I'm not saying there are a lot of wear items, your right, there aren't. I just think its foolish to think its has nothing to go wrong. But to each his own :thumbsup:
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