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Why legacy automakers are panicking and Akio had to go

4228 Views 134 Replies 38 Participants Last post by  1mrBlacky
Panic is spreading among legacy auto manufacturers. Toyota lost valuable time and will pay the price.

EV market share has been doubling every year. In 3 years, EVs will represent half of total auto sales. And all these sales will go to Tesla, BYD, and those manufacturers who have a solid lineup of EV vehicles that appeal to customers in all income ranges (for example Hyundai/KIA, VW). Any manufacturer who doesn't have at least 4-5 EV models (a compact hatchback, a small SUV, a mid-size SUV and a couple of premium/luxury models) will lose market share. There is no way around it. Toyota MUST have competitive EV lineup in 2-3 years, or they will become irrelevant. Companies that didn't invest in EV technologies are panicking.

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Darn, this would have been just what Scion needed.
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That is debatable. I lived many years in Europe, and in some aspects, Europeans have much more freedom than Americans. They have real democratic governments, not a two-party "duocracy". They have way more personal freedom regarding what they can do in public. Many behaviors that are perfectly acceptable in Europe will get you arrested in the US.

China is doing exactly the same thing that US did in the second half of the 20th century. Meddling in politics of other countries. Overthrowing democratically elected governments in Central and South America because they were "inconvenient" for American companies. Even staring wars on a false, fabricated pretext (remember Gulf of Tonkin?).
No country can dominate the world for long. It's payback time.

Many places in Europe,. many residents don't own cars yet rely on either bikes, walking and/or public transit ( which is superior to what the US offers). It's eye opening to see the amount of bikes in places like Copenhagen, Stockholm and Amsterdam to name a few; heck Amsterdam even has the Canta which probably would be frowned upon and shunned in the US..
Because Toyota made exactly the same mistake that GM and Ford did when Toyota and Honda brought their compacts to the US. The same mistake that Blackberry and NOKIA did about Apple's iPhone. And many examples more ...
Toyota dismissed Tesla and EVs as a small "fringe" fad that will only appeal to a small number of consumers. They lacked vision and wasted valuable time they could have used to develop EV technology. Instead, Akio Toyoda was fooling around with sport vehicles and hydrogen. And now that market is proving them wrong they are trying to catch up, hence the departure of Akio from the top position.
Toyota is currently relying heavily on BYD technology for their first generation of EVs. I wouldn't be surprised that next few EVs models that Toyota brings to the US will be actually rebadged BYD cars. Developing a new vehicle platform takes many years (5-7), and Toyota doesn't have that much time. Actually, it is quite plausible that BYD will buy Toyota in a few years, and Toyota will be just a BYD subsidiary / brand.

So how will EVs work for apartment dwellers and those who rent?
Say you have an apartment that has 100 units, would each unit get their own dedicated charging station? What about homes with no garages? Historic homes? How about people who live in very cold places such as Fairbanks Alaska or Siberia?
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Ask the Norwegians. Norway is cold, they live in apartments, and EV are 80% of new vehicle sales. Somehow they figured it out.
That is probably so, but Norway and the other Scandinavian countries, have been committed to alternative energy for many many years compared to the US. As an example , there is a new development in a neighborhood of Cleveland that has various sized apartments listed. There has been no mention if they would be set up for EV car use.
I think some of you have been listening to the all the media hype about EV's and believing whatever they say...Hook, Line, and Sinker.
First, the electrical infrastructure in North Amercia will be unable to handle the support a 20/30/40% increase in EV's being sold, just take a look at the number of power sources we have available to us today, where is the electricity going to come from????
Toyota has said they have pledged to spend $30 billion to roll out 30 EV's by 2030, Ford has pledged to spend $50 billion to build EV's through 2026...which is three years away, and GM has promised to go all EV by, where and how is the infrastructure going to handle this, with a magic wand?, or Trillions of $$$$, and who's pockets are going to fund this and how many decades will it take to put the infrastructure in place, and with what power sources since our rivers are drying up just like the Colorado River!
Don't get me wrong, EV's are fantastic for around town or within a 150 mile radius, but what about planning a trip from say, Arizona to Washington?, you have to plan your trip around finding a recharging station...kind of takes the fun of just exploring, and where are the majority of recharging stations?, in the larger cities, not out in the middle of I-10 between Phoenix and Los Angles.
Some could be set up in Lordsburg NM🙂
Doesnt matter what you, "Spok", or the auto reviewer/enthusiasts say. Policy makers in Europe and China have set EV percentage of total vehicle sales goals, for the auto makers. The automakers are willing to meet those aggressive goals. No arm twisting was involved. If they did not want to make EVs, they would have vokuntarily chosen to leave.

Akiko Toyoda lost that argument (many vs few), as the board is replacing him. The BZ4X is a horrible 1st EV introduction, when compared to the other auto makers. Toy is abandoning their e-TNG platform and will redesign something else, that might come in 2027/2028.

Kinda sad knowing Toy is far behind the EV curve, given the bold introduction of the Prius, and all the hate/skepticism that immediately came w/ such a bold concept. Fast forward 10yrs, every manufacture adopted hybrids and PHEVs.

Just as vehicles eventually replaced the horse and wagon, EV will slowly displace ICE vehicles. The US will be much slower compared to China & Europe.
much of the US economy is currently dependent on ICE vehicles , from auto plants to auto parts.
Someone posted on Scotty's recent video why Toyota is hesitant with EVs; it does deal with apartments. many Japanese live in apartments near or in the major cities which could make it difficult to set up charging stations to cover every car driving residents living there.
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Japan has electric infrastructure issues. They shut down their nuclear power plants after Fukushima and still have generation capacity issues. Their distribution infrastructure is also in worse shape than the US. Japanese government has been prioritizing hydrogen as the fuel of the future.

In general, this insular mentality has costed Japan a lot in more areas than just automotive. The world is much bigger that Japan (and the US), and this has forced Japanese companies to develop two different product categories, one for the domestic market, another for the rest of the world. China and Korea are much more "global" thinking allowing them to optimize their industry. Consequently, Japan has lost their leadership in many industries where they were the undisputed leader a few decades ago: electronics, shipbuilding, just to name a few. And now it's their automotive industry that is quickly losing leadership to China.
Possibly, In Toyota's case, it does make sense. A good example, there is a large suburb of Cleveland that has many apartments; it could be pretty difficult to be able to have enough outlets to cover all residents of these apartments who would have an EV. Japan probably has residents that are similar.

You may not know, but Norway eventually wants to drastically cut car ownership to emphasize walking, biking and public transportation. I believe the other Scandinavian countries are going to follow suit.
An EV won't be for everyone.

A PHEV could be a transition vehicle for you? A hybrid would get a lot better mpg than your ICE only RAV4.

Since your home elec goes out with some regularity for you, get a generator or back-up battery system for the house?

Europe overall is better suited for mass transit unlike the US, so nobsurprises there.

The automakers would actually like vehicle ownership to go away for the US! They would want autonomous vehicles to be perfected so people buy a subscription vehicle service to get to everywhere they need/want to go.

That's true, they really are especially the Scandinavian countries. It is eye opening to visit there and see so few and in some areas no cars. I think this "broke" an NYC live streamer, since he spent several months in Europe with visits to several countries including Denmark and Sweden
QUOTE An EV won't be for everyone.

A PHEV could be a transition vehicle for you? A hybrid would get a lot better mpg than your ICE only RAV4. QUOTE

I dont have a's a 4 runner, and there are no electric/hybrid options for me. I live in the suburbs and there is no public transportation to work , it's too damn cold to walk or bike. 😁

That's a shame 🙂. Seriously though, it's great to be able to choose how to get around and not be limited to one or 2 modes of transportation.

Many European cities do have the advantage of still having their ties to their Medieval past
I did not realize but just read that the Scion iQ may have achieved cult status, which may explain why used ones with low miles have become expensive.

Yes they do. Can you imagine that 6 yrs after being discontinued? really surprised by the iQ since it did not sell that well, though that may be partly why the asking price for many of them are so much.
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