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Figure your Tesla is good for 10 years. That's 5 k a year in depreciation, salvage value will be low since every other one will also be 10 years old, basically time to recycle. This does not include the taxes and insurance on a $50 k car. I just keep plodding on in my archaic old pieces of crap that I paid $4600 for both. Sure you save money on fuel. Hmmmm maybe not as much as you may think. Last year I drove two cars on around $100 a month (gas and insurance). $5000 a year is $400 a month and change, then you have all the other operational costs.
As far as the next great thing, been waiting on that one for decades. I remember a Popular Mechanics article about the next best thing, predicting it will be your last IC engine vehicle 55 YEARS AGO LOL.
Still waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. Oh yeah Tomorrow never comes.
In the meantime I'll just keep plodding along in my old cars, keeping the cash in the bank and making my measly 4.5% interest, while someone plops down $50k on a car made in China. Yeah that sounds like a pure genius plan for the future.

How many trillions do we inject into the green agenda trying to accelerate the evolution of technology. I just saw a 13 year span of that evolution and it is astounding comparing my Echo to a Prius C. The tech that lasts is the tech that wins and it is paid for by those who "invest" in the tech. Govt calls a 31 trillion deficit an "investment", yep and investment in poverty with a guaranteed return.

I asked the dealership how much would it cost me for their "lifetime" warranty? $3000, on a $6800 car. Oh well I can take those odds with the money I have, versus them paying some Moron to hit me in the ass and total my $3k lifetime warranty :ROFLMAO:.
 

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All the EV talk in the world will still NOT get me to buy a Tesla. ( No one wants cars anymore anyways. )
Its SUV's and pickups where the market is now...(.and I will keep driving my 4.0 Litre gas guzzling ICE 4 runner . )馃榿
 

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You're looking for "education" in the wrong place. Stop reading conspiracy crackpots and get an engineering or science degree at a university.
My 30 year old 鈥淐ollege鈥 education has treated me well鈥 Maybe I should go back to a University and get RE Educated.. So I could better understand your feelings?

 

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Lots of valid points by everyone folks.

1) EVs are the trend and future, like it or not.
2) Auto makers are choosing to go EV b/c of Chjna and Europe. They don't have to develop EVs, but if they want to sell cars there, they have to. The US auto market is mature and small compared to China; the automakers known this and choose to go EV, to make $. No one is forcing them to make an EV.
3) Yes the US power grid will become a constraint. But like other issues, it will likely be finessed in time; sooner rather than later wiuld be a good thing.
4) An EV is NOT for everyone for two main reasons.
*Access to home or work Level2 charger.
*Distance from home to work. Will the full charge of an EV get you to work/home/errands? Anything longer, one could rent/borrow and ICE or Hybrid, if one wanted.
I would love to have a full size truck, bit it would be an expensive luxury that I would not use all but maybe once or twice a year when I have to get something big from the Home Despot (Home Depot); cheaper for me just to rent a truck for the day or a few hours.
5) Longterm battery degradation. In 10yrs time, there will likley be a cottage industry offering to repair Li-Ion Batts or a cheaper non-OEM new replacement alternative. Remember when the Prius first came out and the ICE knuckle daggers were saying how cost ineffective the Prius was given a new hybrid batt replacement? How un-Green it was! Why buy a vehicle where the batt will cost $8k+ to replace? Those fears NEVER bore out. If the ICE knuckledraggers were correct, there would be ZERO hybrids after the Prius. But wait, I be damned! EVERY automaker is Hybridizing everything! F' me. Even the Corvette is becoming a hybrid that happens to be FASTER and more powerful than an ICE only version.

The anti EV arguments and fear are very similar to what was said about cars when the US was dominated by horses and wagons. I don't see the horse and wagon making a comeback for the masses.

All the hate for the various subsidies going to EV purchases, EV charging infrastructure, etc, you are being ignorant (lack of knowledge). The US paid for the oil pipeline infrastructure! Time for big oil to STFU or reimburse the taxpayers. They can easily afford to pay back in presnt dollars adjusted for inflation, and still remain profitable.

Don't want to get an EV, then don't.
Want to get an EV, get an EV.
 

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All the EV talk in the world will still NOT get me to buy a Tesla. ( No one wants cars anymore anyways. )
Its SUV's and pickups where the market is now...(.and I will keep driving my 4.0 Litre gas guzzling ICE 4 runner . )馃榿
I have done a 180 in changing what I "want" in a car. My latest purchase is a 2013 Prius C, with 179k miles on it. Generally speaking I would not even have considered a hybrid with that many miles, but my pre purchase research showed a Prius C in Florida with 315,000 miles for $2900.
The car I bought was purchased new just north of Los Angeles and religiously taken back to the same dealership for service every 5 k miles, 25 times it was serviced at that same dealership. Then it was sold with 140 k miles and the carfax entries stopped, except for registration and annual state inspections. It had the same tires on it that were bought by the previous owner in California.
I bought it from a local Toyota dealership, cosmetic damage, but original paint, never "wrecked" religiously maintained with some services like front brakes replaced at 112k miles. Damn good brake life expectancy for LA traffic, indicating it was driven carefully.
I have not done any mechanical work on this car. I did get the selling dealership to flush the brake system. Yesterday driving on a 30 MPG road to a Marina with virtually no traffic, basically out in a flat tidal salt water swamp, it hit the max MPG the car can record 99.9 MPG AVERAGE. To get that in my Echo I had to hypermile the crap out of it, lots of work.
Now I set the cruise, relax and enjoy the drive. Hope to see 315 k miles out of this car. At 72 I need to make life simple and I absolutely love this "new to me" car.

In my earlier crazier years I bought a 67 Formula S 383 Barracuda that got 10 MPG, no matter how you drove it it got 10 MPG, but I was making $13,500 a year and gas was 32 cents a gallon. The Cuda cost me $1400. I bought a 1959 Corvette for $2000 and it got twice the mileage of the Barracuda, with a 71 Z28 engine and transmission it would go 140 in third gear, but the 4 wheel drum brakes would melt if you floored it and stomped on the brakes.
 

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I have done a 180 in changing what I "want" in a car. My latest purchase is a 2013 Prius C, with 179k miles on it. Generally speaking I would not even have considered a hybrid with that many miles, but my pre purchase research showed a Prius C in Florida with 315,000 miles for $2900.
The car I bought was purchased new just north of Los Angeles and religiously taken back to the same dealership for service every 5 k miles, 25 times it was serviced at that same dealership. Then it was sold with 140 k miles and the carfax entries stopped, except for registration and annual state inspections. It had the same tires on it that were bought by the previous owner in California.
I bought it from a local Toyota dealership, cosmetic damage, but original paint, never "wrecked" religiously maintained with some services like front brakes replaced at 112k miles. Damn good brake life expectancy for LA traffic, indicating it was driven carefully.
I have not done any mechanical work on this car. I did get the selling dealership to flush the brake system. Yesterday driving on a 30 MPG road to a Marina with virtually no traffic, basically out in a flat tidal salt water swamp, it hit the max MPG the car can record 99.9 MPG AVERAGE. To get that in my Echo I had to hypermile the crap out of it, lots of work.
Now I set the cruise, relax and enjoy the drive. Hope to see 315 k miles out of this car. At 72 I need to make life simple and I absolutely love this "new to me" car.

In my earlier crazier years I bought a 67 Formula S 383 Barracuda that got 10 MPG, no matter how you drove it it got 10 MPG, but I was making $13,500 a year and gas was 32 cents a gallon. The Cuda cost me $1400. I bought a 1959 Corvette for $2000 and it got twice the mileage of the Barracuda, with a 71 Z28 engine and transmission it would go 140 in third gear, but the 4 wheel drum brakes would melt if you floored it and stomped on the brakes.
Great to read some of my very own automotive life through others! This reader has tried to stay current and knowledgeable while approaching 80 year of circling our sun. Old Mechanic, Im guessing that ol鈥 Cuda and Z28 still cross your mind, happly and damned silly - But that HEV Vett sure will be terrific !
 

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I more or less 100% disagree with the OP's statements. EVs as a percentage of new car sales are still a fraction of overall sales. Less than 10%. And the technology is still halfbaked and not ready for prime time. Toyota is sacrificing very very little by instead pushing hybrids (which have a bigger positive impact on CO2 reduction compared to EVs [thanks to higher adoption and lower cost]) and developing/waiting for solid state battery tech to mature.

And both of your charts are misleading if you don't show what percentage EVs are compared to ICEs. A 200% increase of a tiny market share is still a small number. But it can look convincing, and alarming, on a chart lacking perspective.

The Chinese EV industry is being fostered/pushed by the CCP. The Continental car makers are more or less being forced into EV adoption by EU political pressure. US ones less so, mostly pushes by the stock market and left side of the government. It would appear that Japan is the only region where automakers are more freely able to make their business decisions in the real world, rather than a fantasy one.
And yet most of the low hanging fruit has already been plucked. Once all the early adopters, Greenies, rich people wanting the latest tech and people that buy EVs because of government giveaway money have bought their cars, adoption of the general public will slow down. I'm not saying market share won't continue to increase (government regulations have all but made that a certainty). I know very few (if any) people that are interested in paying premiums for EVs (over conventional vehicles).

But a lot of people are waiting for the technology to sell itself, as a superior choice over an ICE vehicle, and we're not there yet. In fact governmental push even turns some people off. Meanwhile, PHEVs, which Toyota is a leader in, make much much much more sense for all factors involved.

Good debate though (y)
Most companies shouldn't decide their policies based on communist China. And BYD is basically communists holding their thumb down on the scale...

But you're right in that my statements are heavily biased towards North America (land of the free).
You are so dead on and can't agree with you more.

The rush to EV is cool and hip right now. Yes it will continue to grow and technology as it does will also change very rapidly. The problem I see that will really cause these crazy % increase curves to slow is infrastructure which NO ONE wants to talk about because it isn't sexy. California (probably the largest growth and adoption I don't know for sure) can't even handle it's normal load on electricity. Rolling brown outs and black outs FOR DECADES and still no infrastructure plans. Fires caused by exploding old equipment. Let's get the horse in front of the cart. Let's address the charging infrastructure FIRST not last when the grids can't handle the growth and charging stations can't handle the # of cars. You thought gas lines can get long in crisis. It takes 5X the time to charge a car then fill up a tank.

Toyota will be just fine. The Japanese don't fail at much and certainly a company like Toyota isn't going anywhere. Sure they don't have the new shiniest toy but really only Tesla has that right now and we even saw a little ***** in the armor when they had to slash prices to drive demand when it was starting to soften. EV's still have a very specific use case with current infrastructure and ability to charge. Not everyone is racing to go buy one and if they wanted to current based on their use case.
 

BeerSteakTxas
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Lots of valid points by everyone folks.

1) EVs are the trend and future, like it or not.
Bingo, EVs are the modern trend, like showing your stupidity or boobs on tiktok, like wearing cloth that doesn't fit or doesn't look good on you, like going pro transvestite and other twisted bs, none of it benefits the planet or society, it just trendy.
The only reason so many governments and manufacturers are into EVs cuz it's a new and easy way to profit and tax.
At his point of time even cheapest EVs make absolutely no financial sense. Evs are cool trendy toys, nothing else.
 

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I drive a 25 minutes to work everyday. 10 min stop and go and 15 minutes highway. How would a hybrid car benefit me over gas. Thanks.
Is this is a serious question? A hybrid will give you a higher overall MPG.

What is your current tankful average MPG? # gallons filled divided by total miles driven since last fill-up.
What vehicle and year are you currently driving? This is asked to see if your ICE only yr/model had a hybrid equivalent that year. If so, the MPG difference could be looked-up, and you will have your answer.
 

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I have an 05 corolla and I am getting 29 mpg
Seeing is believing.
Motor vehicle Font Car Material property Automotive lighting


2020 is when Toyota introduced a Corolla Hybrid. Granted yours is a 2005, and a hybrid version was NOT available.
For the 1st year of the Corolla Hybrid vs ICE only Corolla, 33 vs 52 MPG. Difference of 19MPG.
Your 2005 ICE Corolla vs 2020 Corolla Hybrid, 29 vs 52 = 23MPG difference. The 2020 Corolla Hybrid almost gets DOUBLES your 29mpg.

How/Why you don't know or accept that hybrids get much better MPG vs ICE only cars is baffling. The hybrid technology is not NEW, and has proven its worth. Some people don't like hybrids, and that's fine.

You just need to run the numbers comparing. To see when the break even point is w/ a Hybrid, as they usu cost a little bit more.

Say 12,000miles/yr. Say low point of gas was $3.00/gal, high point of gas was $5.00/gal.
12,000miles/yr / 29mpg = 413.8gal/yr * $3.00/gal = $1241/yr in fuel costs.
12,000miles/yr / 29mpg = 413.8gal/yr * 5.00/gal = $2069/yr in fuel costs.

US News and reports 2020 ICE only Corolla, average purchase price of $21,727 - 26,879. Multiple models for ICE only: L, LE, SE, SE manual, XLE, XSE.
US News and reports 2020 Corolla Hybrid, average purchase price of $24,681. Only ONE model/trim.

Corolla Hybrid vs Corolla ICE break even point: $24,681 - $21,727 = $2954 / $1241/yr = 2.4yrs to break even when gas is $3/gal.
Corolla Hybrid vs Corolla ICE break even point: $24,681 - $21,727 = $2954 / $2069/yr = 1.4yrs to break even when gas is $5/gal.
Lets just average the gas/break even point, since gas fluctuates throughout the seasons and world events. (2.4+1.4)/2 = 1.9yrs to break even. Not bad.

Corolla Hybrid vs Corolla ICE break even point: $24,681 - $26,879 = -$2198 = Hybrid already ahead vs a likely XSE ice Corolla; no need to go further.

The more expensive gas is and/or the more you drive, that faster the break even point becomes.

Hybrid vs ICE only lesson is now over.
 

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For a hybrid car when do you use the electric on hyway or stop and go. Is parts and maintenance more or less.
The computers will determine when it is all elec or both. The computers factor in many inputs:
Throttle demand (light press or heavy lead foot press) on gas pedal.
Vehicle speed.
Engine temp.
HVAC demand.
SOC (State of Charge) of the high voltage battery. If the computers determine the HV batt needs to be replenished, the ICE will kick in, even if standing still/parked.

You just drive the hybrid like a normal ICE only car. The computers will do the rest. Keep overall speeds low, helps w/ MPG, just as it does w/ an ICE only car. Easy huh?

A hybrid is an ICE primarily, w/ elec motors providing an assist. This is why hybrids get great MPG in city/heavy traffic; you can potentially cover a great distance w/ little to NO gas being burned. ICE only car would be burning gas the entire time/distance.

Maintenance is pretty much the same as an ICE. Exception being there is a second independent cooling loop for the inverter; likely an additional 1gal of coolant.

Brakes on hybrids last a long time! As long as brakes aren鈥檛 neglected, meaning the caliper slide pins are cleaned and lubed regularly (once a year or every other year). Still on original front rotors & pads, and rear drums & shoes, for a 2007 Prius, 168k miles! How many pads and rotors have you gone through on your 2005 ICE Corolla?

Still on original High Voltage battery too! Original owner when the car was new. As w/ any vehicle, most people will likely have a ok to positive experience. A small percentage will have a bad experience. I am happy to be the former.

Brakes on a hybrid may feel wired/different b/c there is no constant vacuum, due to the on/off frequency of the engine. But the brakes work fine on a hybrid.

Borrow a friends hybrid, or rent a hybrid to experience for yourself. Pretty much just like an ice except quieter when in elec mode and much better MPG. Some Toy dealers are set-up as Toyota Rent A Car.
 
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