Why legacy automakers are panicking and Akio had to go
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Freeway/Highway driving at speed, the ICE is pretty much always running, but you will see the elec motor intermittently kick-on and stay on for various duration. Again, the computers determine when and how long the elec motor w/ or w/o ICE stays on. The computers will do everything to maximize MPG, based on the many inputs: vehicle speed, throttle demand, engine temp, HVAC, SOC of HV batt.
FLAT road, the elec motor will likely cycle on/off, meaning the ICE doesn't have to work as much/hard = better MPG.
DOWN hill, you will likely let your foot off the gas a little bit, ICE will likely shut off, elec motor may or may not kick-in.
UP hill, ICE will likely stay on, w/ elec motors kicking in, but even this will help w/ MPG.
You REALLY need to just drive a hybrid, to experience it for yourself. Just like experiencing a concert in person, Niagra Falls, Grand Canyon, Machu Picchu, Angkor Wat, Egypt Pyramids, etc, 1st hand experience is always best: words and pictures don't do it justice.
Go borrow/rent a hybrid for a day or a weekend, and go on a trip: flat roads, mountain driving, down hill, etc. You will see all and experience all. At the end of this drive, you may just come to appreciate Hybrids. Or you may just come to hate them too, which will be unfortuante, but fine.
NEW OEM battery replacement cost will vary.
Quantity.
Chemisty: NiMh (lower cost) vs Li-Ion (more expensive)
Most recent (ie 2023) usu more expensive than an older vehicle (ie 2013).
New OEM replacemnet HV (High Voltage) battery.
$2291, covers Toyota Prius and Corolla NiMh batteries, 2016-2022.
$1759, covers my Gen2 Prius (2004-2009)
One can also buy HV batt from low mileage wrecks, $few hundred-$2k+, from auto dismantles/salvagers.
One cal also attempt to repair their HV batt, but these module swapping repairs are UNRELIABLE and shor lived.
There are 3rd party companies that make good equivalent replacements, for same or less cost than a new OEM.
NewPriusBatteries.com | Home is such a good and legitimate option, if one does not have a dealer nearby who won't sell to them or price match other online dealer prices. The founder of newpriusbatteries, is an Elec Engineer by occupation, and an auto enthusiast. He started this company as a way to help people, as not all dealers will sell the HV batt to the public, OR at a reasonable price. He is still active on PriusChat.
YES, the HV batt will need replacing at some time WAY DOWN the road. Even at $2k-$3k for a replacement, you will likely still come out ahead, after the hybrid premium break even point.
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If I could only get that cost to own money, oh that's right, I do have that money and I sure as I'm breathing it is now making ME money. I was running two cars on a hundred a month, gas mileage in the high 40s in the manual Echo, hypermiled to a hundred. I remember gas when it was 19 cents a gallon at the Hess station. That was 15k a year total miles, but it now has dropped so much with the hybrid, I might pull the tags on the Echo and let it become an antique.
The hybrid battery is refurbishable, replace the lowest 10 percent cells with culls from donor packs. You can buy a new 2nd gen battery for $1600 at McGeorge in Richmond. It was $6K in 2004. The tranny was $8K, now you get lucky and find them at the pick and pull.
The hybrid battery is refurbishable, replace the lowest 10 percent cells with culls from donor packs. You can buy a new 2nd gen battery for $1600 at McGeorge in Richmond. It was $6K in 2004. The tranny was $8K, now you get lucky and find them at the pick and pull.
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You put my C on cruise at 30 mph and it will peg the gauge at 99.9 MPG, not sure of the battery condition but more capacity would always be nice, higher regen efficiency. Varies between 2 and 8 mostly to have some reserve for a long downhill regen opportunity. My favorite car of all time is the Echo, damn cheap to keep going. If I have to accept the complexity of a hybrid it will be a Toyota, starting at 178k miles. the damn shocks work like new, never changed. The C in Florida with 315kmiles for $2900 was tempting, but I like what I have a lot better and the average miles will drop every year from their current 17k a year. Even going to spend acouple hundred with the dent doctor to get the dings "minimized" not perfect just damn good. Amazing car to have driven the LA traffic daily, got ring scratches in all 4 doors. Men dont wear that type of rings usually. Probably a group of gals in a car pool. Daily average miles was in the mid 50s, so about 350 miles a week.
Toyota Nation, I just came upon an interesting statement adding to much of the above dialogue. In InsideEVs by I. Dnistran, Toyotas counterintuitive idea, from their Chief Scientist, Gill Pratt. Interestingly with much mirroring of Spock’s statement, I’m paraphrasing;
The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. That many Hybrids (Toyotas) would make a bigger positive impact of total emissions, than would a smaller fleet of EVs! Numbers matter, what you all?
The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. That many Hybrids (Toyotas) would make a bigger positive impact of total emissions, than would a smaller fleet of EVs! Numbers matter, what you all?
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Doesnt matter what you, "Spok", or the auto reviewer/enthusiasts say. Policy makers in Europe and China have set EV percentage of total vehicle sales goals, for the auto makers. The automakers are willing to meet those aggressive goals. No arm twisting was involved. If they did not want to make EVs, they would have vokuntarily chosen to leave.
Akiko Toyoda lost that argument (many vs few), as the board is replacing him. The BZ4X is a horrible 1st EV introduction, when compared to the other auto makers. Toy is abandoning their e-TNG platform and will redesign something else, that might come in 2027/2028.
Kinda sad knowing Toy is far behind the EV curve, given the bold introduction of the Prius, and all the hate/skepticism that immediately came w/ such a bold concept. Fast forward 10yrs, every manufacture adopted hybrids and PHEVs.
Just as vehicles eventually replaced the horse and wagon, EV will slowly displace ICE vehicles. The US will be much slower compared to China & Europe.
Akiko Toyoda lost that argument (many vs few), as the board is replacing him. The BZ4X is a horrible 1st EV introduction, when compared to the other auto makers. Toy is abandoning their e-TNG platform and will redesign something else, that might come in 2027/2028.
Kinda sad knowing Toy is far behind the EV curve, given the bold introduction of the Prius, and all the hate/skepticism that immediately came w/ such a bold concept. Fast forward 10yrs, every manufacture adopted hybrids and PHEVs.
Just as vehicles eventually replaced the horse and wagon, EV will slowly displace ICE vehicles. The US will be much slower compared to China & Europe.
Inch by inch, step by step, the US will get there, slower as you say but then it is a numbers game.
much of the US economy is currently dependent on ICE vehicles , from auto plants to auto parts.
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Thanks
Someone posted on Scotty's recent video why Toyota is hesitant with EVs; it does deal with apartments. many Japanese live in apartments near or in the major cities which could make it difficult to set up charging stations to cover every car driving residents living there.
Japan has electric infrastructure issues. They shut down their nuclear power plants after Fukushima and still have generation capacity issues. Their distribution infrastructure is also in worse shape than the US. Japanese government has been prioritizing hydrogen as the fuel of the future.
In general, this insular mentality has costed Japan a lot in more areas than just automotive. The world is much bigger that Japan (and the US), and this has forced Japanese companies to develop two different product categories, one for the domestic market, another for the rest of the world. China and Korea are much more "global" thinking allowing them to optimize their industry. Consequently, Japan has lost their leadership in many industries where they were the undisputed leader a few decades ago: electronics, shipbuilding, just to name a few. And now it's their automotive industry that is quickly losing leadership to China.
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I lose electricity often in winter storms. How am I going to go to work if my EV vehicle plugged in at my home will not charge. Is my boss, going to accept this as an excuse to not go to work?.....I doubt it. For now, at least my ICE will get me to work, all day. everyday.😁
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I understand your situation and accept your decision and yes, it is unfortunate yet this is realistically where we are at in this current transportation time. You might find yourself more readily switching over to a hybrid vehicle (HEV) When the conversation focuses around “The Grid System“ it sure means more than just super-fast public chargers that need to be improved nationwide
Possibly, In Toyota's case, it does make sense. A good example, there is a large suburb of Cleveland that has many apartments; it could be pretty difficult to be able to have enough outlets to cover all residents of these apartments who would have an EV. Japan probably has residents that are similar.
You may not know, but Norway eventually wants to drastically cut car ownership to emphasize walking, biking and public transportation. I believe the other Scandinavian countries are going to follow suit.
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An EV won't be for everyone.
A PHEV could be a transition vehicle for you? A hybrid would get a lot better mpg than your ICE only RAV4.
Since your home elec goes out with some regularity for you, get a generator or back-up battery system for the house?
Europe overall is better suited for mass transit unlike the US, so nobsurprises there.
The automakers would actually like vehicle ownership to go away for the US! They would want autonomous vehicles to be perfected so people buy a subscription vehicle service to get to everywhere they need/want to go.
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I rent therefore any changes I make to the electrical have to be approved by the landlord and would probably become his property if I move and cant take it with me. Financially it's not worth it for me to buy a generator or a charging station. For all of these reasons, an EV will not work for me and my SUV.
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Actually, depending on the EV charger chosen (NEMA plug or HARDWIRED), would determine if the EV charger would stay or go.
I know of four renters who had these situations.
generous landlord: cost of the wiring from electrical panel to final location was paid by landlord. Tenant supplies EV charger.
reasonable landlord: cost of wiring from elec pannel to final location was split by landlord and tenant. Tenant supplies EV charger.
cheap landlord: tenant responsible for all costs.
unreasonable landlord: NO work allowed, even if tenant paid all costs by a licenses electrician and city permits.
Confusion is the default position in this new EV world!
Personally I think hybrids make a lot of sense. The battery pack is smaller and lighter. I think Mazda is on to something with using the rotary engine to charge the batteries like a diesel locomotive. One day battery tech will get there, but I do not think that day is here yet.
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