Why legacy automakers are panicking and Akio had to go

4230 Views 134 Replies 38 Participants Last post by 1mrBlacky, 4 mo ago

katekebo

Discussion Starter · 4 mo ago

Panic is spreading among legacy auto manufacturers. Toyota lost valuable time and will pay the price.

EV market share has been doubling every year. In 3 years, EVs will represent half of total auto sales. And all these sales will go to Tesla, BYD, and those manufacturers who have a solid lineup of EV vehicles that appeal to customers in all income ranges (for example Hyundai/KIA, VW). Any manufacturer who doesn't have at least 4-5 EV models (a compact hatchback, a small SUV, a mid-size SUV and a couple of premium/luxury models) will lose market share. There is no way around it. Toyota MUST have competitive EV lineup in 2-3 years, or they will become irrelevant. Companies that didn't invest in EV technologies are panicking.

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/automakers-ev-surge-everything-everywhere-174004752.html

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lha

· #121 · 4 mo ago

jonbourg said:
Personally I think hybrids make a lot of sense. The battery pack is smaller and lighter. I think Mazda is on to something with using the rotary engine to charge the batteries like a diesel locomotive. One day battery tech will get there, but I do not think that day is here yet.

I relate the ev situation to a Cowboy in the 1890s shooting his horse after hearing of a horseless cariage. The electric grid will implode if we all get electric vehicles. Assuming Human nature,everyone will come home and plug in their vcars,exploding tranformers.

Reactions: 2

1mrBlacky

· #122 · 4 mo ago

lha said:
I relate the ev situation to a Cowboy in the 1890s shooting his horse after hearing of a horseless cariage. The electric grid will implode if we all get electric vehicles. Assuming Human nature,everyone will come home and plug in their vcars,exploding tranformers.

The cowboy used a pistol, we will use electric ⚡ Seems like
Too much EV positive fanfare, I believe producing terrific sales numbers probably resulting in future power brownouts

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lrayvick

· #123 · 4 mo ago

The shift from walking and horse power to ICE was cost and convenience i.e. market based. The shift to EVs is political i.e. not market based. The main issues in this attempted transition is the inability of the goverments to properly allocate the cost to the enviroment of ICEs and EVs. Until they do that there will be no clear incentives to make the change. Unfortunately governments have been notoriously inefficient in economic planning, the State of California being a primary example of such. Nobody in Sacramento has a clear idea of how the State will arrange for the generating capacity and distribution necessary to implement its no-new-ICEs policy in 2035.

As to practicality of EVs, I forsee advanced battery technology allowing for battery/charging stations much like the gas stations of today where either fast charging or fast battery exchange will make home charging unattractive.

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1mrBlacky

· #124 · 4 mo ago

lrayvick said:
The shift from walking and horse power to ICE was cost and convenience i.e. market based. The shift to EVs is political i.e. not market based. The main issues in this attempted transition is the inability of the goverments to properly allocate the cost to the enviroment of ICEs and EVs. Until they do that there will be no clear incentives to make the change. Unfortunately governments have been notoriously inefficient in economic planning, the State of California being a primary example of such. Nobody in Sacramento has a clear idea of how the State will arrange for the generating capacity and distribution necessary to implement its no-new-ICEs policy in 2035.

As to practicality of EVs, I forsee advanced battery technology allowing for battery/charging stations much like the gas stations of today where either fast charging or fast battery exchange will make home charging unattractive.

I foresee those charging battery-changing stations becoming substantially more available as-well. Then I also see confusion and conflicts between oil companies leased property holders sharing space with their arch rivals; Non Petrol Users 😱

T.N.T

· #125 · 4 mo ago

www.hagerty.com

When electric cabs ruled New York’s roads - Hagerty Media

It’s May 1899 and the United States’ first ever speeding ticket has just been issued to New York cab driver Jacob German.

www.hagerty.com

zythr

· #126 · 4 mo ago

NameofUser said:
An EV won't be for everyone.

A PHEV could be a transition vehicle for you? A hybrid would get a lot better mpg than your ICE only RAV4.

Since your home elec goes out with some regularity for you, get a generator or back-up battery system for the house?

Europe overall is better suited for mass transit unlike the US, so nobsurprises there.

The automakers would actually like vehicle ownership to go away for the US! They would want autonomous vehicles to be perfected so people buy a subscription vehicle service to get to everywhere they need/want to go.

That's true, they really are especially the Scandinavian countries. It is eye opening to visit there and see so few and in some areas no cars. I think this "broke" an NYC live streamer, since he spent several months in Europe with visits to several countries including Denmark and Sweden

mrmike7189

· #127 · 4 mo ago

QUOTE An EV won't be for everyone.

A PHEV could be a transition vehicle for you? A hybrid would get a lot better mpg than your ICE only RAV4. QUOTE

I dont have a RAV4....it's a 4 runner, and there are no electric/hybrid options for me. I live in the suburbs and there is no public transportation to work , ...........plus it's too damn cold to walk or bike. 😁

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zythr

· #128 · 4 mo ago

mrmike7189 said:
QUOTE An EV won't be for everyone.

A PHEV could be a transition vehicle for you? A hybrid would get a lot better mpg than your ICE only RAV4. QUOTE

I dont have a RAV4....it's a 4 runner, and there are no electric/hybrid options for me. I live in the suburbs and there is no public transportation to work , ...........plus it's too damn cold to walk or bike. 😁

That's a shame 🙂. Seriously though, it's great to be able to choose how to get around and not be limited to one or 2 modes of transportation.

Many European cities do have the advantage of still having their ties to their Medieval past

T.N.T

· #129 · 4 mo ago

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zythr

· #130 · 4 mo ago

I did not realize but just read that the Scion iQ may have achieved cult status, which may explain why used ones with low miles have become expensive.

NameofUser

· #131 · 4 mo ago

mrmike7189 said:
QUOTE An EV won't be for everyone.

A PHEV could be a transition vehicle for you? A hybrid would get a lot better mpg than your ICE only RAV4. QUOTE

I dont have a RAV4....it's a 4 runner, and there are no electric/hybrid options for me.

A hybrid 4Runner maybe around the corner!

www.hotcars.com

Why The 2024 Toyota 4Runner Hybrid Will Be Game Changing SUV

Toyota's iForceMAX hybrid unit combines a V6 mill and an electric motor to deliver a considerable threat against the 4Runner's segment rivals.

www.hotcars.com

Reactions: 1

got-rice

· #132 · 4 mo ago

zythr said:
I did not realize but just read that the Scion iQ may have achieved cult status, which may explain why used ones with low miles have become expensive.

Most Scions still have the Toyota tax

https://www.selectautowholesales.com/details/used-2012-scion-iq/90965911

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zythr

· #133 · 4 mo ago

got-rice said:
Most Scions still have the Toyota tax

https://www.selectautowholesales.com/details/used-2012-scion-iq/90965911

Yes they do. Can you imagine that 6 yrs after being discontinued? really surprised by the iQ since it did not sell that well, though that may be partly why the asking price for many of them are so much.

BlueMR280

· #134 · 4 mo ago

In case anyone was wondering, forcing a population over to EVs makes it extremely easy to control their movement, from a highly centralized position of power.

I'm sure that's just a coincidence though

Reactions: 1

1mrBlacky

· #135 · 4 mo ago

zythr said:
much of the US economy is currently dependent on ICE vehicles , from auto plants to auto parts.

Until 3D printers can reproduce vehicles; ICE, EV, PHEV, HEV, H2 fuel cells etc. auto manufacturing plants will still continue to be around and very productive !

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