[aston4]

I've had 5 Toyota's over the last 10 years. The hydraulic steering cars were OK, but the electric steering cars are absolute garbage.

Progressively weighted steering. Do you know what that is? That's right, you don't because Toyota does not have it.

I am so sick of Toyotas that won't go down the road in a straight line, the require extraordinary stamina to go long distances, and leave me absolutely exhausted at the end of a long trim.

I was time to get a new commuter car to replace the Camry, and yes I did test drive the new Camry (and a Corolla, and a GS350), and Toyotas are all still garbage in the steering/suspension dept.

Did I mention complete lack of road feel?

Let's see, cars that steer better than Toyota that I test drove:

VW
Mercedes
BMW
Hyundai (!!!)
Kia (!!!)
Honda
Mazda
Ford (!!!)
Jeep (!!!!!!!!)


I have never had cars that steer worse, or have less responsive/transmissive suspensions than Toyotas in my 40 years of driving.

I LOVED loved loved the reliability, but I'm tired of struggling. I was also becoming increasingly worried that one of these days I was going to end up in a ditch because I let my attention wander from staring straight down the road and gripping the stering wheel hard for more than 0.5 seconds.

My new commuter car just sticks in the lane like it's on rails, and requires no thought whatsoever to be where I want it to be.

If it breaks down at some point, oh well, at least my forearms won't be aching.

I'm I'm getting rid of the Gen3 Sienna too pretty soon.

 

[WebDev]

I've had 5 Toyota's over the last 10 years. The hydraulic steering cars were OK, but the electric steering cars are absolute garbage.

Progressively weighted steering. Do you know what that is? That's right, you don't because Toyota does not have it.

I am so sick of Toyotas that won't go down the road in a straight line, the require extraordinary stamina to go long distances, and leave me absolutely exhausted at the end of a long trim.

I was time to get a new commuter car to replace the Camry, and yes I did test drive the new Camry (and a Corolla, and a GS350), and Toyotas are all still garbage in the steering/suspension dept.

Did I mention complete lack of road feel?

Let's see, cars that steer better than Toyota that I test drove:

VW
Mercedes
BMW
Hyundai (!!!)
Kia (!!!)
Honda
Mazda
Ford (!!!)
Jeep (!!!!!!!!)


I have never had cars that steer worse, or have less responsive/transmissive suspensions than Toyotas in my 40 years of driving.

I LOVED loved loved the reliability, but I'm tired of struggling. I was also becoming increasingly worried that one of these days I was going to end up in a ditch because I let my attention wander from staring straight down the road and gripping the stering wheel hard for more than 0.5 seconds.

My new commuter car just sticks in the lane like it's on rails, and requires no thought whatsoever to be where I want it to be.

If it breaks down at some point, oh well, at least my forearms won't be aching.

I'm I'm getting rid of the Gen3 Sienna too pretty soon.

An IS, GS, or RC with stiffer springs, poly steering bushings and thicker sway bars would give you what you want.

My SC on Supra coil overs was one of the best handling cars I've ever driven. It's not that Toyota can't do it, it's that non-car people don't care enough and if you want it, you'll need to mod it.

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

 

[kemo sabe]

I felt exactly the same way about the steering & suspension on my "previous" 2012 SE V6. Even with Michelin tires. Sold it after 2 years. Bought a 2014.5 Camry XLE----all the difference in the world.

 

[molson.david]

I had 4 Toyotas and I would take Toyota's electric steering over hydraulic without a second thought. I have 12 and had 14 Camry and in both cases had no issues with straight line tracking. In 90% of cases tracking issues related to aliment or defective tires.
Most BMW's and even Merc's have bumpy supervention and excessively heavy steering to my liking, but GS350 and Genesis sedan have just perfect steering and suspension setting imo and they definitely better than anything VW, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Mazda, Ford, Jeep, Chevy etc. has on the market.

 

[molson.david]

It's not that Toyota can't do it, it's that non-car people don't care enough and if you want it, you'll need to mod it.

Most Toyotas are designed for "non-car ppl" that need good all around transportation and Camry is exactly what these ppl are looking for and that's why Camry is so popular. The Camry is a great cheap car, nothing less, nothing more.

 

[steptide]

I dunno man, my wife has a 30 thousand dollar kia sorento and I'll take my camry everyday over it. I realize I'm comparing a camry to an suv, but still, I'll the camry a million times over my wife's kia

 

[got-rice]

My new commuter car just sticks in the lane like it's on rails, and requires no thought whatsoever to be where I want it to be.

If it breaks down at some point, oh well, at least my forearms won't be aching.

I'm I'm getting rid of the Gen3 Sienna too pretty soon.

So what is your new commutermobile? A Mazda?

 

[JimBowNut]

I was also becoming increasingly worried that one of these days I was going to end up in a ditch because I let my attention wander from staring straight down the road

I'm thinking you need a Tesla where you let the car steer itself! Of course, you might find yourself under a Semi-truck!

 

[GreatAvalon]

So what did you get for your new commuter car?

Hey man, I think you made the right call. If it was bothering you (I agree, they can be touchy and hard to keep "on center", though they have gotten progressively better since 2012), dump it and get something that you enjoy driving.

 

[Zembonez]

Bye Felicia

 

[oilmutt]

And your new car is...............................!

 

[kitacamry]

Steering and stability can be improved with choice of tires.

Typical OEM supplied and "long-life" tires with hard rubber compound and tread for low wear do limit road feel and response that can be improved with aggressive tread and softer rubber to grip the road better. Generally they don't last as long. but that's the trade off for better handling.

 

[mapirc]

I second that: my 2012 XLE with wide, low-profile tires, and stiff rear sway bar, tracks extremely well, with only the slightest occasional correction at the steering wheel required to maintain course. Even so, the system lacks minute, small-signal finesse: it's as if I'm dealing with jitter riding on top of the tactile signal I want. The best of good old-fashioned mechanical hydraulic steering performs better.

I have to imagine that the electronics part of the system is challenged to provide a linear torque response: that is, a certain torque input at the steering wheel, provides a certain torque output to the steered wheels, that are in direct proportion to each other. And, for good sense of feedback, the converse must be true as well: a mechanical upsetting torque input to the wheels, whether from road irregularities or steering effects, should produce a feedback torque output to the steering wheel in direct proportion. I wonder whether there is signal conditioning going on that may be interfering with that proportionality? Maybe that transfer function has some poles and zeroes where they shouldn't be? The electronics interface should allow the system to act as a pure transformer or gyrator, and evidently, it's falling short in that regard. Or maybe an electronic/mechanical interface is to blame?

Best,
Mark

 

[Esoteric Image]

+3

Mine with aftermarket performance tires tracks pretty good.. in fact i was just noticing today on the hour drive into work how it takes minimal effort to steer it.

 

[GreatAvalon]

Any bets on what the OP got? I'm guessing a Hyundai

 

[Esoteric Image]

 

[Northwoodshyun]

I have to imagine that the electronics part of the system is challenged to provide a linear torque response: that is, a certain torque input at the steering wheel, provides a certain torque output to the steered wheels, that are in direct proportion to each other. Maybe that transfer function has some poles and zeroes where they shouldn't be? The electronics interface should allow the system to act as a pure transformer or gyrator, and evidently, it's falling short in that regard.

Where do you come up with these wonderful ideas? I am really dumb because I have no clue what you are talking about. It must be the way a smart senior engineer thinks and writes.

 

[Esoteric Image]

Yea, sometimes Marc talks like the inventor of scrabble... you kinda get used to it after a while

 

[jblackburn]

I take it the other Toyotas you owned were neither Corollas nor a Gen 5-6 Camry? Somehow, they managed to numb the crap even out of hydraulic power steering, and the Corolla EPS was in no way actually connected to what the wheels were doing.

EPS took some getting used to for me at first, but I never had trouble keeping the 2012 Camry in between the lines after like the first week or two. Some manufacturers do EPS a lot better than others, though. As long as it's not a Cobalt...

 

[mapirc]

Hi Jlackburn,

Good point: the problem isn't necessarily restricted to the electronic aspect; it may be mechanical as well. On the front ends I've designed/built, steering feedback was much better than anything I've driven with the Toyota badge on it.

Best,
Mark