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DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 2

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
DIY: 1996 Camry Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change 5S-FE (GEN3) - Part 2

Part 2......Click on the link below to go to Part 1 of this procedure.......
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264425

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40. Clamp the oil pump pulley in a vice. Remove the nut, then the pulley and drive rotor.

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41. Cover the tip of a flat screwdriver with electrical tape and pry out the oil seal. Note how far the seal is pressed into the housing before removing it. Apply a light coat of clean engine oil to the seal ID and OD press the seal into the bore. I used a vice to press the seal in flush with the outside of the housing. Do not press the new seal all of the way down to the bottom of the bore, or it will block the drain port (circled in red). I poked a small pin punch through this drain port to ensure that it was not blocked. Mine was not blocked.

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42. Apply a light coat of clean engine oil to the shaft, drive rotor and driven rotor. Reassemble the pump and install on the engine with the 7 bolts (10mm). I dabbed some clean wheel bearing grease in the o-ring gasket groove in the pump in several locations to hold o-ring gasket in place during assembly. Ensure that correct length bolts are installed in the previously noted locations. When re-installing the oil pump, ensure that the triangular indentation on the driven rotor faces out as shown in the photo above. The angular orientation of the drive rotor with respect to the driven rotor is not important as one has four lobes and the other has five lobes, so the relative angular position between the rotors constantly changes as the oil pump operates.


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43. Use the same sheet metal screw trick to remove the crankshaft seal. This time, I did not bother to cut the rubber seal lip away. The seal came out easily. Note how far the seal is pressed into the housing before removing it. Clean the shaft and bore with a Q-tip and paint thinner. Apply a light coat of engine oil to the new seal ID and OD. Press the new seal into the bore to the same depth as noted above. Remove the crank position sensor (see green arrow) by removing the crank position sensor bolt (red circle) (10mm) to clean and degrease this area.


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44. Slide crankshaft timing pulley onto the crankshaft. It should slide on easily. Install the camshaft timing pulley and tighten the bolt (14mm). I did not want to mess with removing the valve cover to hold the camshaft from turning, so I used a Bessey woodworking clamp to hold the pulley while I tightened the camshaft pulley bolt.


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45. Install the new idler pulley (14mm), tensioner pulley (14mm) and tension spring. Use a pinch bar to move the tension pulley to the `slack` position. Install the new timing belt with the match marks in the correct location on the camshaft timing pulley and crankshaft timing pulley. Loosen the tensioner bolt in order to tension the belt. Lock the tensioner in this position. Slide the round cupped washer (aka. the belt guide) on to the crankshaft. Install the lower timing belt cover. Ensure that the correct length of the bolts are installed in the proper location as previously recorded.


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46. Lightly clean the bore of the crankshaft harmonic balancer drive pulley with some emery paper and wipe clean the crankshaft with paint thinner. Slide the crankshaft harmonic balancer drive pulley onto the crankshaft. Mine went on about 3/4 way by hand and the crankshaft bolt took care of the rest. Tighen the crankshaft bolt (19mm) to 80 ft.lbs. using a torque wrench and the special tool.


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47. Rotate crankshaft bolt (19mm) clockwise to align “V” notch on the pulley with “0” position timing belt lower cover.


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48. With moderate tension in the timing belt between the camshaft and the water pump, align “V” notch in camshaft seal housing with hole in camshaft pulley. If you look at the right hand side of the mirror, near the edge, in the above photo, you will see a round indentation. That is NOT the mark you want. The one you want is the "V" shaped notch.

[Edit Apr. 4, 2010] This information was provided by TN member Rattlin_Steele: Since there seems to be a lot of confusion about the V-notch vs the circle/dot on the camshaft alignment, I'd point out to novices like me that the the proper mark (V-Notch) is at the 12:00 position with respect to the vertical axis of the engine.

[Edit April 4, 2010] TN forum member fenixus also reported that there was no round indentation on his '00 Camry 5SFE. It is possible that Toyota may have ditched the round indentation in later model years to avoid confusion.

In my case, I was off by one tooth, so I had to back off the timing belt tension and rotate the camshaft by one tooth. A small mirror and small flashlight is helpful for this step. It took me a few tries to get this step right as the timing belt tended to skip a tooth each time I restored tension to the timing belt. I finally got an assistant to push down on the timing belt between the camshaft and water pump to prevent the belt from skipping as I loosened the tensioner bolt to tension the belt. This did the trick for me.

With the timing belt tight on the water pump side and the marks aligned, LOCK THE TENSIONER (this is important - many forget to lock the tensioner at this point and the belt skips during this step causing the timing to be off and the engine run rough or it will not run at all!!!!!) and rotate the crankshaft clockwise 720 degrees. Ensure that the “V” notches are aligned. Mine did. Ensure that the timing belt is tight between the camshaft and the water pump pulley. Mine was. Note that the crankshaft rotates 2 revolutions for each revolution of the camshaft. That is why it is necessary to rotate the crankshaft 720 degrees to get the camshaft to rotate 360 degrees.

Next, I rotated the crankshaft another 720 degrees, just to be sure. Everything was still in alignment, and the timing belt was tight between the camshaft and water pump. Everything looked good.


49. Before going any further, I installed the spark plugs (with a light coat of anti-seize on the spark plug threads) and turned on the engine for 15 seconds to ensure that the timing was OK. This step can be done with the car still on the stands and the alternator and power steering pump disconnected. The engine started (transmission in was in Park position) and ran well at low and moderate speeds. So I knew that the timing was good!


50. Clean, dry and wire brush all of the multigroove drive pulleys. Install the power steering pump belt using a pinch bar to tension the belt. Install the upper timing belt cover. Note the tip in step 16 & 17. Install the alternator. Install the air conditioner / alternator belt. Install the aluminum engine mount and the new torque rod mount. Snap the coolant reservoir back into place. Re-connect the two ground connectors.


51. Flush the radiator with clean tap water until it runs clear. Close the drain port and fill with 50-50 mix of distilled water and coolant. Fill the overflow tank with 100% coolant. With radiator cap open, run the engine with heater in the “hot” position and watch for coolant flow in upper radiator tank. When the level will drops add a bit more coolant. Close radiator cap and allow engine to cool. Add additional coolant if needed when engine is cool. Add a timing maintenance sticker to timing belt cover indicating date and mileage of timing belt change.

EDIT...After about a week, I noticed a high pitched squeal when the steering wheel was cranked fully right or left. Also occasionally noticed a squeal when the AC was on. I tightened the power steering belt and AC/alternator belt and that took care of the problem. Either I didn't tension the belts tight enough originally or the belts stretched a small amount after installation.

UPDATE: March 25, 2010: After about 1.5 years and 20K Kms, I could hear some rattling under the timing belt cover when the engine was cold. The noise went away when the engine was warm. It sounded like the timing belt was getting loose and hitting the cover. I was planning to tear it all down and tighten the belt when the weather got a bit warmer, but the belt broke before I got it apart. I am not sure if the original belt was defective or if I installed it too loose to begin with. Bottom line is if you hear some rattling, it is a good idea to take the timing belt cover off and check the belt tension. I used a Contitech belt (more expensive) this time. Hoping that this one will perform better.

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#3 ·
If I may add this little bit of info.

You should also replaced the o-ring between the back half of the water pump and the block, especially when you remove or loosen the front half. The O-ring do get harden over time. And don't forget the thermostat while you are there, since you already drain all the coolant out.

N.E.O.
 
#9 ·
If I may add this little bit of info.

You should also replaced the o-ring between the back half of the water pump and the block, especially when you remove or loosen the front half. The O-ring do get harden over time. And don't forget the thermostat while you are there, since you already drain all the coolant out.

N.E.O.
Good call on the O-ring. It would not be too much more work to do this at same time.
 
#4 ·
Could you be a bit more descriptive on what to do? JUST kidding, nice write up!

I had my timing belt off my camry to put in a new crank shaft seal, the shop who did the T-belt ignored that step, would have cost $4 more and a few extra minutes of their time.

I have also done the T-belt in our 99 4runner, and 2 4cyl rangers, and early 90's cavalier. The job can be a bit scary for a newbie, but the camry engine is a good one to give it a shot on, at least if you put the belt on slightly wrong, you won't have to worry about the pistons hitting the valves.

I also like the home made tools, I have a few of those laying around from various projects!

by the way, holding 2 cam sprockets in position ( on the 4runner V6) is a bit more of a challenge, I can't imagine doing it on a motor with 4 cam sprockets (like the GM 3.4 dohc motor), but I'd certainly do it.
 
#29 ·
Could you be a bit more descriptive on what to do? JUST kidding, nice write up!

I had my timing belt off my camry to put in a new crank shaft seal, the shop who did the T-belt ignored that step, would have cost $4 more and a few extra minutes of their time.

I have also done the T-belt in our 99 4runner, and 2 4cyl rangers, and early 90's cavalier. The job can be a bit scary for a newbie, but the camry engine is a good one to give it a shot on, at least if you put the belt on slightly wrong, you won't have to worry about the pistons hitting the valves.

I also like the home made tools, I have a few of those laying around from various projects!

by the way, holding 2 cam sprockets in position ( on the 4runner V6) is a bit more of a challenge, I can't imagine doing it on a motor with 4 cam sprockets (like the GM 3.4 dohc motor), but I'd certainly do it.
:headbang:could you take a few more photos,just kidding,thank you for the great photos and text
 
#6 ·
dz63,

I have a follow up question crank the car to check timing..

You installed and tight the bolt alternator (without belt installed) back and connected the both battery terminals back and spark plugs back before you crank the car to check correct timing, right?

can you fill more details on this step? I haven't heard this step before, but this is great step suggestion before tight everything down.

thanks
 
#7 ·
dz63,

I have a follow up question crank the car to check timing..

You installed and tight the bolt alternator (without belt installed) back and connected the both battery terminals back and spark plugs back before you crank the car to check correct timing, right?

can you fill more details on this step? I haven't heard this step before, but this is great step suggestion before tight everything down.

thanks
I did not disconnect the battery during the procedure. The alternator was just sitting loose when I started engine to check timing. No radiator fluid either, so I didn't run the engine for very long.
 
#8 ·
dz63,

you didn't disconnected the battery during your procedures, would ground of the alternator touch any metal creats a spark? what you did to prevent the alternator (ground) to creat a spark when the alternator loose and touch any metal part of the engine??

would you harm the engine when you crank or engine run for short time without cooling at all?
 
#10 ·
dz63,

you didn't disconnected the battery during your procedures, would ground of the alternator touch any metal creats a spark? what you did to prevent the alternator (ground) to creat a spark when the alternator loose and touch any metal part of the engine??

would you harm the engine when you crank or engine run for short time without cooling at all?
I am not sure if there is potential for spark at alternator. Perhaps someone with more experience than me can respond to this question. Running the engine for short time without coolant is OK.
 
#13 ·
Thanks Hajoca :)

The Haynes manual says to disconnect the battery as the first step. I purposely ignored this step, because Haynes manual also says you have to take the car to the Toyota dealer to reset something (can't remember what?) if the battery is removed for an extended period of time. I wanted to avoid taking the car to the Toyota dealer.

I am not sure if this is true though, because I have already installed a new battery in the Camry and I did not have to reset anything. Would be nice to know for future reference. Can anybody comment on this point?
 
#14 ·
Hi!
When you changed the oil seal in your oil pump, you'd better to change the drive rotor too, because it looks used, there's the trace from the oil seal lips.
I had the same problem on my camry, like you I changed only the oil seal, but it wasn't efficient. So later I changed the drive rotor, and it's nice now.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Hi!
When you changed the oil seal in your oil pump, you'd better to change the drive rotor too, because it looks used, there's the trace from the oil seal lips.
I had the same "problem" on my camry, like you I changed only the oil seal, but it wasn't efficient. So later I changed the drive rotor, and it's nice now.
What "problem" did you have and what changed when you installed the new drive rotor? Did you installed a new drive rotor or a new driven rotor? Please describe in more detail. Thanks!
 
#21 ·
Your welcome. I have learned a lot from the TN forum. I find that the members on TN are genuinely helpful and very knowledgeable too. It really surprises me how many people have had the exact same problems that I have had on my Camry. I just wanted to give a little back by writing up the timing belt procedure. Glad it helped.
 
#22 ·
This weekend, I followed these procedures to replace all of the same parts.

The camshaft pulley would not budge. We tried literally everything to get it off and nothing worked. Same deal with removing the bolt from the crankshaft pulley. It was getting to the point where I was worried that the teeth of the pulley would get damaged by clamp, so we gave up. So the seals in those two pulleys did not get changed.

Any ideas why the camshaft pulley wouldn't come off?
 
#23 · (Edited)
Without the special tool, I think you will need an impact gun to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt. If you don't have access to an impact gun, take it to your local garage and ask them to loosen the bolt up with their impact gun, then re-tighten it loosely, so you can drive the car home and finish the job yourself.

As far as the camshaft pulley is concerned, I simply removed the camshaft pulley bolt and the camshaft pulley just slid off the camshaft. It was a piece of cake. Not sure why your's is giving you such a hard time. The camshaft pulley is at the top of the engine in a dry location, inside the upper timing cover, so I can't see it being rusted onto the shaft. There is not enough space for a puller in that area, so I am not sure what tool you could use to get it off.

Hopefully there are some others with more experience who can chime in and offer some advice. If not, try PM'ing NEO on this forum. He is very knowledgeable.

dz63
 
#24 ·
Without the special tool, I think you will need an impact gun to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt. If you don't have access to an impact gun, take it to your local garage and ask them to loosen the bolt up with their impact gun, then re-tighten it loosely, so you can drive the car home and finish the job yourself.

As far as the camshaft pulley is concerned, I simply removed the camshaft pulley bolt and the camshaft pulley just slid off the camshaft. It was a piece of cake. Not sure why your's is giving you such a heard time. The camshaft pulley is at the top of the engine in a dry location, inside the upper timing cover, so I can't see it being rusted onto the shaft. There is not enough space for a puller in that area, so I am not sure what tool you could use to get it off.

Hopefully there are some others with more experience who can chime in and offer some advice. If not, try PM'ing NEO on this forum. He is very knowledgeable.

dz63

I'm sorry, I totally got my words mixed up. The Crankshaft Timing Pulley is the one that would not budge. We even tried using... some special tool and failed miserably, almost getting it jammed into the hole.

The larger Crankshaft Pulley came off easily, without a harmonic balancer, because we had removed it twice before over the last couple of years.

And it was the camshaft pulley bolt that would not budge either.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Kevin - I am not sure if the O-ring is a standard size, nor do I know the size of the O-ring. Also, not sure if the the O-ring supplied in a universal seal kit is sufficient. Sorry I could not be more helpful. Hopefully, someone with more experience will respond to your question.

dz63
 
#30 · (Edited)
Hi,

I talked to this Machine Shop, and the guy said he will do for me " CLUB tool" for $60 bucks that included material and labor. IS THIS a good deal/or expensive?

Now, I have a question on this GREAT CLUB TOOL before I go back to this MACHINE SHOP. Since the drawing show center from HOLD TO HOLD (3/8 inches) is 72mm.

Here is my math that I figured it out...Please tell me if I am right/wrong...

convert 72mm= 2.83 inches
since the Outside Diameter (OD) has 3.5 inches, so I just take
3.5 inches - 2.83 inches (from center hold to hold) = .67 inches that I need to go IN from OUTSIDE (from Y-axis) diameter EDGE to drill two 3/8 inches holds . IS THIS right thinking?

Hints.. X-axis (horizontal)... Y-axis (vertical)...

Here is my second question.. HOW FAR DO I NEED TO go (X-axis) FROM OUTSIDE EDGE (OD) TO center HOLD THAT I NEED TO DRILL 3/8 inches holds? please share if you have already make this great CLUB TOOL....

I WORRY IF I GO in from (x-axis) too far/ or not far enough, then MY TWO 3/8 HOLDS WILL NOT FIT (screws) ON my 5SFE's CRANKSHAFT?
 
#31 ·
Hi,

I talked to this Machine Shop, and the guy said he will do for me " CLUB tool" for $60 bucks that included material and labor. IS THIS a good deal/or expensive?

Now, I have a question on this GREAT CLUB TOOL before I go back to this MACHINE SHOP. Since the drawing show center from HOLD TO HOLD (3/8 inches) is 72mm.

Here is my math that I figured it out...Please tell me if I am right/wrong...

convert 72mm= 2.83 inches
since the Outside Diameter (OD) has 3.5 inches, so I just take
3.5 inches - 2.83 inches (from center hold to hold) = .67 inches that I need to go IN from OUTSIDE (from Y-axis) diameter EDGE to drill two 3/8 inches holds . IS THIS right thinking?

Hints.. X-axis (horizontal)... Y-axis (vertical)...

Here is my second question.. HOW FAR DO I NEED TO go (X-axis) FROM OUTSIDE EDGE (OD) TO center HOLD THAT I NEED TO DRILL 3/8 inches holds? please share if you have already make this great CLUB TOOL....

I WORRY IF I GO in from (x-axis) too far/ or not far enough, then MY TWO 3/8 HOLDS WILL NOT FIT (screws) ON my 5SFE's CRANKSHAFT?
1996Camry - you are way over complicating things. The tool is dead simple to make. Just show the photo to any machine shop and they will be able to make it. There is tons of clearance on the 3/8"(9.5mm) holes for the 6mm bolts, so even if the shop is off by 1-2 millimeters on 72mm dimension, the 6mm bolts will still fit. Price is reasonable, but IMHO, if you can't make it yourself, it would be much cheaper for you to get a local garage to loosen the crank bolt with their impact gun, and then drive your car home and finish the job yourself.

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#35 ·
timely stuff, i started today and found your story to help answer some questions

that was really great stuff. i found that the standard puller wouldn't work. so i guess i'll need the 6 x 50mm bolts and a couple washers. i hadn't planned on cleaning up the oil pump but now would be the time. i am a little scared about starting it the first time. i'm probably waaay over my head as far as technical proficientcy (spelling/verbage). you seem to have a mechanical background, did you mention working at a machine shop?
 
#36 ·
that was really great stuff. i found that the standard puller wouldn't work. so i guess i'll need the 6 x 50mm bolts and a couple washers. i hadn't planned on cleaning up the oil pump but now would be the time. i am a little scared about starting it the first time. i'm probably waaay over my head as far as technical proficientcy (spelling/verbage). you seem to have a mechanical background, did you mention working at a machine shop?
my mechanical proficiency is non-existent, at best. However, if you take your time and remain patient while following all the steps; the entire process is far less intimidating than it looks.

Dz63 is also pretty good at following up on questions or problems that you may have.

good luck!
 
#43 ·
Hey, I did the mistake of not paying attention to the bolt lengths when taking apart. Does anyone have a picture indicating where the long ones go for the upper and lower timing covers and water pump? Thanks soo much
P.S i'm screwed :(
For the lower timing cover the two short bolts are circled in red and the long bolt is circled in green. See photo in Step 24 of the procedure.

For the upper cover and water pump, you will just have to try the longer bolt in each position. If the long bolt bottoms out, then you know that a short bolt is required in that position. I didn't pay attention when I removed the bolts and found myself in the same situation you are in. Good Luck!

P.S. Poser had a great idea with the cardboard. Next time, I will use this method to keep track of the bolts.
 
G
#39 ·
If its just the timing belt, i would guess around $200-300 depending on the labor rate at the shop of your choice. That would only cover the belt though. There are other parts that may need to be replaced such as water pump, oil seals and tensioners which will increase the cost of the job. Is it 4 or 6 cylinder?
 
G
#41 ·
I'm guessing around $700-800 to do everything. Seals, water pump, timing belt and tensioners. You can have the shop look it over before you give the ok to do the job. It will cost you 1 hr labor and they can check for oil leaks and look over the whole car for any other problems. The water pump is usually replaced for preventitive maintenance when doing the timing belt.