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2012 Toyota Camry defective Torque converter replaced in 2017 and same symptoms are occurring 4 years later

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#21 ·
nozama said:
Thanks, dddd.
I just cleaned the pan, installed a new filter, added two more magnets, did a full flush of the fluid (used a total of ~10.5 quarts fluid), also added 2 oz shudder fix. Now it seems the shudder is no longer noticeable.
Do you have any suggestion on if I should have the ECM reprogrammed now by a dealer, or wait? any other recommendations on how to prevent the shudder from coming back?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't have any experience with having the ECM reprogrammed, but your dealer should be able to confirm if it's been done yet.

Since you did such a thorough job(!), people here will be very interested in how long that your car's torque converter clutch continues to behave.
It would be valuable data then if you could perhaps update us on your car's performance periodically, this possibly saving other owners thousands of dollars. We all want to know for how long (in miles) that your work remains effective.
Others here have reported needing new fluid again after some tens of thousands of miles if I recall, but the work does go much quicker after one becomes familiar with the simple job of replacing the fluid.

Good job!
Which particular fluid did you choose?
Was 2oz the recommended amount for a 7-quart transmission?
 
#22 ·
I will come back and update the performance once a while.

I bought all parts from a dealer (filter, magnet, gasket, and fluid). the fluid is Toyota ATF WS.
I just added one tube of Lube Gard Instant Shudder Fixx (2 oz) as I don't see recommendations for Camry. The description on Advanced Auto Parts website says one tube can treat a 10 quart system, and up to 2 tubes can be used safely in a 10-quart system.

BTW, if anyone wants to DIY, one nut in one corner between the pan and the frame (next and underneath the nut) is very very difficult to remove/reinstall due to limited space. in the end I used one offset close end wrench to remove, but need 3, still not very convenient, for reinstallation. A "very short" socket with a joint adapter may work but I don't have.

dddd said:
Sorry, I don't have any experience with having the ECM reprogrammed, but your dealer should be able to confirm if it's been done yet.

Since you did such a thorough job(!), people here will be very interested in how long that your car's torque converter clutch continues to behave.
It would be valuable data then if you could perhaps update us on your car's performance periodically, this possibly saving other owners thousands of dollars. We all want to know for how long (in miles) that your work remains effective.
Others here have reported needing new fluid again after some tens of thousands of miles if I recall, but the work does go much quicker after one becomes familiar with the simple job of replacing the fluid.

Good job!
Which particular fluid did you choose?
Was 2oz the recommended amount for a 7-quart transmission?
Click to expand...
 
#23 ·
dddd said:
Toyota's hands have been tied since the time when these shuddering problems began.
Since Toyota EPA-certified these cars with their very-thin, US-spec Toyota WS fluid, they were not free to correct the problem by spec'ing a heavier fluid such as the thicker WS-rated fluid which is the highest-grade offered by Aisin, the transmission's manufacturer.
Also, Toyota nor Aisin may even sell that thicker synthetic grade of fluid in the US, and I'm certain that no Toyota dealer would be permitted to refill your transmission with it if you brought it to them.

But, other oil suppliers may sell a good and proper WS-compatible fluid that is as thick as the foreign-market, premium synthetic fluid sold elsewhere by Aisin.

After inspecting the oil manufacturer's specifications for WS-compatible fluid, two inexpensive, full-synthetic, domestic, WS-rated fluids are found to be on US shelves everywhere and which will have a considerable added damping effect on the buildup of any shudder harmonics in the TC's lockup clutch (which is the source of the shudder).
The recommended (thicker and full-synthetic) WS fluids are Valvolene MaxLife (WS-compatible) and Castrol ATF/CVT Universal (also WS-compatible). These fluids are only about $20 per GALLON, and have near the same viscosity as the best full-synthetic fluid that Aisin sells for these very transmissions (but which cannot be sold in the US).

What I recommend is to drain the pan (2+ quarts). Then refill the trans with that measured amount plus 1.3quarts and start the engine with the trans cooler return line routed and attached to a large and well-fixtured bucket. Move the shifter through the gear range until a full two quarts has emptied out into the calibrated bucket in about 50 seconds or so. Thenshut off the engine immediately and refill just the two quarts, then repeat the above after emptying the calibrated bucket.
You should then be able to use the remains of the two gallons of aftermarket fluid that you bought to restore a slight over-fill condition, after which you re-connect the cooler return line and do the level-checking process per the recommended procedures, within the correct 95F-113F temperature range (warm-hot bath water temperature)

The thicker fluid should remedy the shudder problem, and can even be further supplemented with an additive like ShudderGard, later on (if perhaps the effect doesn't last through a typical fluid service interval of perhaps 40k miles). Avoid leaving the fluid in for too many tens of thousands of miles!
Just be sure to check and adjust the level after adding anything to the already level-checked trans fluid!

It's important to replace the ATF fluid promptly when such problems arise, as wear patterns may develop on the lockup clutch friction surfaces which align with any unfavorable shudder's harmonic frequency.

I do not recommend adding anything to any well-used (especially low-viscosity, i.e. stock) transmission fluid.
Click to expand...
I have a 2012 Camry SE 2.5L 117k miles with the shudder issue. I've noticed the shudder issue I would say around 80k miles. My original dealer in Bayside, Queens did do the ECU update a few years back. I went to a dealer in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, they confirmed I have the shudder issue and charged me $300 for it. That $300 would be taken off the repair price if I was to proceed. The repair price was $3800! The repair would have replaced the torque converter with a 1 year warranty. I shopped around and found a shop outside of NY that would do it for $2100. It literally pays to shop around! I have not done the repair yet nor have I ever changed the ATF fluid.

I've been reading a lot of your comments and you sound like you know what you're talking about.

I would like to change my fluid myself as well but would like some clarification from this post on how to do it.

1) First, are these the products you mentioned:

2) I don't get what you mean when you say, "trans cooler return line routed and attached to a large and well-fixtured bucket." How exactly would I achieve this? What tools would I need?

3) Next, do you recommend using the regular Toyota WS fluid for the first transmission fluid change with my shudder or go straight to Valvoline/Castrol?

4) Between valvoline and castrol, do you recommend one over the other?

The way I would do it according to videos and alldatadiy.com is:

1) drain fluid from pan
2) remove pan
3) collect all fluid
4) measure that fluid
5) remove old filter
6) clean pan and magnets
6) add new magnets
7) add new gasket
8) install new filter
9) install cleaned pan
10) add fluid + 1 extra quart (or 1.3 like you say)
11) turn engine on
12a) attach ScanGauge - SG2 II Ultra Compact 3-in-1 Automotive Computer with Customizable Real-Time Fuel Economy Digital Gauges (link: )
12b) the car care nut suggests inserting a jumper wire into the obdii port and have the car run in diagnostic mode (video starts at right moment:
)
13) cycle thru the gears
13) wait for ATF fluid to read 95F to 113F.
14) with the transmission oil filler tube (plastic piece) still inside pan, drain until it starts to drip like shown here (video starts at the right moment:
)
15) if the correct drip is reached, seal up the pan with the overflow plug (drain plug)
16) shut engine off
Job COMPLETE

Thank you in advance.

Dzevat
 
#24 ·
I found this video is very helpful, it showed you how to do a true "flush" (from the trans cooler return line), as well as how to check the fluid level. be careful about one nut around the rear right corner, very difficult to remove/reinstall due to very limited space, unless you have proper tool.


Jotti said:
I have a 2012 Camry SE 2.5L 117k miles with the shudder issue. I've noticed the shudder issue I would say around 80k miles. My original dealer in Bayside, Queens did do the ECU update a few years back. I went to a dealer in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, they confirmed I have the shudder issue and charged me $300 for it. That $300 would be taken off the repair price if I was to proceed. The repair price was $3800! The repair would have replaced the torque converter with a 1 year warranty. I shopped around and found a shop outside of NY that would do it for $2100. It literally pays to shop around! I have not done the repair yet nor have I ever changed the ATF fluid.

I've been reading a lot of your comments and you sound like you know what you're talking about.

I would like to change my fluid myself as well but would like some clarification from this post on how to do it.

1) First, are these the products you mentioned:

2) I don't get what you mean when you say, "trans cooler return line routed and attached to a large and well-fixtured bucket." How exactly would I achieve this? What tools would I need?

3) Next, do you recommend using the regular Toyota WS fluid for the first transmission fluid change with my shudder or go straight to Valvoline/Castrol?

4) Between valvoline and castrol, do you recommend one over the other?

The way I would do it according to videos and alldatadiy.com is:

1) drain fluid from pan
2) remove pan
3) collect all fluid
4) measure that fluid
5) remove old filter
6) clean pan and magnets
6) add new magnets
7) add new gasket
8) install new filter
9) install cleaned pan
10) add fluid + 1 extra quart (or 1.3 like you say)
11) turn engine on
12a) attach ScanGauge - SG2 II Ultra Compact 3-in-1 Automotive Computer with Customizable Real-Time Fuel Economy Digital Gauges (link: )
12b) the car care nut suggests inserting a jumper wire into the obdii port and have the car run in diagnostic mode (video starts at right moment:
)
13) cycle thru the gears
13) wait for ATF fluid to read 95F to 113F.
14) with the transmission oil filler tube (plastic piece) still inside pan, drain until it starts to drip like shown here (video starts at the right moment:
)
15) if the correct drip is reached, seal up the pan with the overflow plug (drain plug)
16) shut engine off
Job COMPLETE

Thank you in advance.

Dzevat
Click to expand...
 
#25 · (Edited)
Jotti said:
I have a 2012 Camry SE 2.5L 117k miles with the shudder issue. I've noticed the shudder issue I would say around 80k miles. My original dealer in Bayside, Queens did do the ECU update a few years back. I went to a dealer in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, they confirmed I have the shudder issue and charged me $300 for it. That $300 would be taken off the repair price if I was to proceed. The repair price was $3800! The repair would have replaced the torque converter with a 1 year warranty. I shopped around and found a shop outside of NY that would do it for $2100. It literally pays to shop around! I have not done the repair yet nor have I ever changed the ATF fluid.

I've been reading a lot of your comments and you sound like you know what you're talking about.

I would like to change my fluid myself as well but would like some clarification from this post on how to do it.

1) First, are these the products you mentioned:

2) I don't get what you mean when you say, "trans cooler return line routed and attached to a large and well-fixtured bucket." How exactly would I achieve this? What tools would I need?

3) Next, do you recommend using the regular Toyota WS fluid for the first transmission fluid change with my shudder or go straight to Valvoline/Castrol?

4) Between valvoline and castrol, do you recommend one over the other?

The way I would do it according to videos and alldatadiy.com is:

1) drain fluid from pan
2) remove pan
3) collect all fluid
4) measure that fluid
5) remove old filter
6) clean pan and magnets
6) add new magnets
7) add new gasket
8) install new filter
9) install cleaned pan
10) add fluid + 1 extra quart (or 1.3 like you say)
11) turn engine on
12a) attach ScanGauge - SG2 II Ultra Compact 3-in-1 Automotive Computer with Customizable Real-Time Fuel Economy Digital Gauges (link: )
12b) the car care nut suggests inserting a jumper wire into the obdii port and have the car run in diagnostic mode (video starts at right moment:
)
13) cycle thru the gears
13) wait for ATF fluid to read 95F to 113F.
14) with the transmission oil filler tube (plastic piece) still inside pan, drain until it starts to drip like shown here (video starts at the right moment:
)
15) if the correct drip is reached, seal up the pan with the overflow plug (drain plug)
16) shut engine off
Job COMPLETE

Thank you in advance.

Dzevat
Click to expand...
I should have mentioned that I wanted to be able to see the fluid rising in my clear bucket while I sat in the car, so I added a length of tubing to the disconnected fluid line nipple and placed the clear bucket to the left of the left/front wheel.
This way, I could cycle the shifter through it's positions repeatedly while the fluid emptied with the engine running in Park.
And I could see when the fluid reached the bucket's 2-quart line, so as to prevent too much air from being pumped through when the level in the pan got too low.
Two quarts is what comes out IF you over-fill the transmission by 1+ quart, otherwise only one quart comes out with each refill.
Having air go through the transmission's pump apparently does no harm, and even helps expel more old fluid using less new fluid (the air displaces old fluid in the torque converter).
My "bucket" was a gallon milk container with a 2-quart line drawn on it. I attached the hose extension to the container and stabilized the container to prevent tip-over or spilled fluid.
Since some air likely will enter the trans fluid pump, be sure to cycle the shifter through it's positions a few times before beginning the final level-check. You don't want any air in the servos and accumulators taking up space or you'll end up with a low fluid level! Be aware that the coolant and fluid temperatures rise quickly when the engine is running, you need to be below 90F before starting the level-check procedure, so the ScanGage is a good tool to have.

The Castrol ATF/CVT Universal fluid is definitely the thickest WS-rated fluid at operating temperature to be found at a decent price, and will thus offer the best cushion to the modulated clamping of the converter's clutch plates. This offers the best chance of not having the shudder return.
Toyota's WS fluid is the thinnest type of fluid at operating temperature. It's also twice as expensive as the superior full-synthetic Castrol ATF/CVT Universal fluid.

The transmission cooler/return lines are simple "rubber" hoses that are secured with clamps that release using pliers.
A thin person's arm can reach straight down behind the radiator in order to work with the connection of the hose to the cooler.The YouTube video explains which hose is the one to disconnect, and how to connect your drain hose to the nipple on the cooler. It's really easy if you've worked with such hoses before, I did it one-handed.
It's best to clean the connections before disconnecting them, and to keep the disconnected return hose end plugged/shielded and thus clean.

Removing the pan requires a dedicated 10mm low-profile swivel socket on the one difficult bolt apparently.
Be sure that one and only one sealing ring is in place when installing the filter!

Since you are cleaning out your pan, you might get good results with only two 2-quart flush-outs. I did not remove my pan so I did three 2-quart flush-outs, even though my transmission was fairly new and perfect.

Please report back with your results.
 
#26 ·
nozama said:
I found this video is very helpful, it showed you how to do a true "flush" (from the trans cooler return line), as well as how to check the fluid level. be careful about one nut around the rear right corner, very difficult to remove/reinstall due to very limited space, unless you have proper tool.
Click to expand...
nozama said:
I found this video is very helpful, it showed you how to do a true "flush" (from the trans cooler return line), as well as how to check the fluid level. be careful about one nut around the rear right corner, very difficult to remove/reinstall due to very limited space, unless you have proper tool.
Click to expand...
I've seen that video before. Saw it again and see what you're saying. Thanks for sharing. Few questions:

1) which ATF did you use?
2) how is your car running since you worked on it?

Next, Chrisfix recommends doing a fluid flush if the ATF is in good condition. If it's not in good condition (i.e. black) or if one is not sure of the condition, it's better to do a change. He talks about it at 8 mins 34 secs mark in the following video:

As for that nut, another way to do it is to loosen the three transmission mount bolts slightly, jack up the tranny, and that will give you more clearance. I will try your way first.
 
#27 ·
dddd said:
I should have mentioned that I wanted to be able to see the fluid rising in my clear bucket while I sat in the car, so I added a length of tubing to the disconnected fluid line nipple and placed the clear bucket to the left of the left/front wheel.
This way, I could cycle the shifter through it's positions repeatedly while the fluid emptied with the engine running in Park.
And I could see when the fluid reached the bucket's 2-quart line, so as to prevent too much air from being pumped through when the level in the pan got too low.
Two quarts is what comes out IF you over-fill the transmission by 1+ quart, otherwise only one quart comes out with each refill.
Having air go through the transmission's pump apparently does no harm, and even helps expel more old fluid using less new fluid (the air displaces old fluid in the torque converter).
My "bucket" was a gallon milk container with a 2-quart line drawn on it. I attached the hose extension to the container and stabilized the container to prevent tip-over or spilled fluid.
Since some air likely will enter the trans fluid pump, be sure to cycle the shifter through it's positions a few times before beginning the final level-check. You don't want any air in the servos and accumulators taking up space or you'll end up with a low fluid level! Be aware that the coolant and fluid temperatures rise quickly when the engine is running, you need to be below 90F before starting the level-check procedure, so the ScanGage is a good tool to have.

The Castrol ATF/CVT Universal fluid is definitely the thickest WS-rated fluid at operating temperature to be found at a decent price, and will thus offer the best cushion to the modulated clamping of the converter's clutch plates. This offers the best chance of not having the shudder return.
Toyota's WS fluid is the thinnest type of fluid at operating temperature. It's also twice as expensive as the superior full-synthetic Castrol ATF/CVT Universal fluid.

The transmission cooler/return lines are simple "rubber" hoses that are secured with clamps that release using pliers.
A thin person's arm can reach straight down behind the radiator in order to work with the connection of the hose to the cooler.The YouTube video explains which hose is the one to disconnect, and how to connect your drain hose to the nipple on the cooler. It's really easy if you've worked with such hoses before, I did it one-handed.
It's best to clean the connections before disconnecting them, and to keep the disconnected return hose end plugged/shielded and thus clean.

Removing the pan requires a dedicated 10mm low-profile swivel socket on the one difficult bolt apparently.
Be sure that one and only one sealing ring is in place when installing the filter!

Since you are cleaning out your pan, you might get good results with only two 2-quart flush-outs. I did not remove my pan so I did three 2-quart flush-outs, even though my transmission was fairly new and perfect.

Please report back with your results.
Click to expand...
Thank you for clarifying. I looked up on youtube how to do a flush and basically, I overfill by 1 or 2 quarts, disconnect the return line hose with a clear vinyl hose that goes to a bucket, run the engine, shift through the gears, wait til I see bubbles in the line, shut car off, inspect the color of the fluid, and repeat if necessary.

As I mentioned to Nozama, Chrisfix recommends doing a fluid flush if the ATF is in good condition. If it's not in good condition (i.e. black) or if one is not sure of the condition, it's better to do a change. He talks about it at 8 mins 35 secs mark in the following video:

Nozama's video tutorial mentioned a third ATF and I wanted to get your opinion on it:
- Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid
- Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

Which one would I use for my vehicle? And would you still recommend the castrol as your top pick?

Thanks.
 
#28 ·
The "ATL" version above is the only one of those two that's WS-compatible.

It's not nearly as thick at 100C though, compared to the Castrol TransMax ATF/CVT Universal, which is thickest at 7.1 cSt versus the AmsOil's mere 6.3cSt kinematic viscosity.

There is no question which fluid I would use in a Toyota with torque converter shudder issues, since the thicker fluid will better cushion the cyclic modulated converter lockup clutch engagement which is the source of the shudder.

Using the thickest WS-rated fluid gives your car a very good chance of shudder-free operation over a quite-decent service interval before another fluid replacement will be needed.

Interestingly enough, the AmsOil "ATF" version (which is a replacement for Toyota T4/TIV fluid) is only .4cST thicker than the Castrol ATF/CVT Universal, so would offer an additional measure of shudder-resistance in cases where perhaps the car is never used in extremely cold weather. My best guess is that it would work perfectly here in Central California, and might save someone literally thousands of dollars versus having major work done.
 
#29 ·
dddd said:
The "ATL" version above is the only one of those two that's WS-compatible.

It's not nearly as thick at 100C though, compared to the Castrol TransMax ATF/CVT Universal, which is thickest at 7.1 cSt versus the AmsOil's mere 6.3cSt kinematic viscosity.

There is no question which fluid I would use in a Toyota with torque converter shudder issues, since the thicker fluid will better cushion the cyclic modulated converter lockup clutch engagement which is the source of the shudder.

Using the thickest WS-rated fluid gives your car a very good chance of shudder-free operation over a quite-decent service interval before another fluid replacement will be needed.

Interestingly enough, the AmsOil "ATF" version (which is a replacement for Toyota T4/TIV fluid) is only .4cST thicker than the Castrol ATF/CVT Universal, so would offer an additional measure of shudder-resistance in cases where perhaps the car is never used in extremely cold weather. My best guess is that it would work perfectly here in Central California, and might save someone literally thousands of dollars versus having major work done.
Click to expand...
You are correct. So below I put a list together with sources of the options we've covered and not mentioned. From thickest at 100°C to lowest:

AMSOIL Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid
7.5 cSt @ 100°C​
source on page 8 from: https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/msds/atf.pdf
Castrol Transmax ATF/CVT Universal
7.1 cSt @ 100°C​
source on page 1 from: https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...glis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/311C447845A9150B80258671003E7CAF/$File/wepp-by27kq.pdf
AMSOIL Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid
6.3 cSt @ 100°C​
source on page 8 from: https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/msds/atl.pdf
Valvoline Valvoline Multi-Vehicle (ATF) Full Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid
5.91 cSt @ 100°C​
source on page 2 from: https://www.bimmerfest.com/attachments/valvoline-max-life-multi-vehicle-spec-sheet-pdf.734569/Valvoline's website interestingly does not provide the cSt @ 100°C; only at 40 °C (source on page 6 from: Datasheet Download
AMSOIL OE Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid
5.8 cSt @ 100°C​
source on page 7 from: https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/msds/otl.pdfThis one was recommended when I called AMSOIL and spoke to a technician rep. because it's closest to Toyota's ATF-WS listed below.
Genuine Toyota ATF – WS part # 00289-ATFWS
5.45 cSt @ 100°C​
source on page 7 from: https://www.filpacinc.com/_files/ugd/7dc173_32757faaab334555ae3820a1f358fa01.pdf
 
#30 ·
Melissa2828 said:
I have a 2012 Camry and Smithtown dealer replaced original "recalled aka DEFECTIVE" Torque Converter back in 2017 with 60k miles. Today, 4 years later with an additional 60k miles, I am having the same shudder and it is worse than the first time. I went to the dealer and they confirmed it was the Torque converter again. They also told me there was nothing they can do but quoted me a price to replace. I called Toyota Corp and spoke with rep named Drew who seemed like a puppet for Toyota. They must have a script to reply to the customer because he kept repeating the same thing. He said that the enhancement program was a COURTESY! They did what they think they should have and they are not responsible for this same problem. The warranty expired 8 years after purchase which was jan 2021. I do not believe that anyone should be so accepting of this problem and I am appalled that Toyota is NOT standing behind their vehicle. The "replaced" torque converter that doesn't routinely cause problems in any car especially a Toyota, is clearly Defective! I don't see any recent posts on this and I was hoping someone had advice on how to deal with this or if anyone is experiencing the same problem after the repair? I do not have the ability to go and buy a new car and I do not have the funds to replace it. In addition, there must be something I could do about the conveniently expired warranty as we have been experiencing a Pandemic and it has effected everyone in some way. How does Toyota not take that into consideration? I would appreciate any feedback on this matter and thanks in advance for taking the time to respond!
Click to expand...
I am having the same issues. Took mine to Toyota, now its worse then it ever was before. Mine has 210,000 miles now and I will have to spend the money to repair the converter. Toyota said they aren't responsible once out of warranty period. I feel screwed over by them and probably wont ever by another one.
 
#31 ·
aprilneal86 said:
I am having the same issues. Took mine to Toyota, now its worse then it ever was before. Mine has 210,000 miles now and I will have to spend the money to repair the converter. Toyota said they aren't responsible once out of warranty period. I feel screwed over by them and probably wont ever by another one.
Click to expand...
Did you read any of the above few replies?
A thorough fluid replacement (i.e. 10-quart flush) using the heaviest/thickest WS-rated fluid would be a very good investment gamble at this point imo. A Toyota dealer can/will not install a better fluid, you have to go to an independent shop for that.

The sooner the watery Toyota fluid is replaced, the better. Again, read the above few posts.

Please follow up here with any results, positive or negative (these are valuable data points for other Toyota Camry 2.5l owners).
 
#32 ·
dddd said:
Did you read any of the above few replies?
A thorough fluid replacement (i.e. 10-quart flush) using the heaviest/thickest WS-rated fluid would be a very good investment gamble at this point imo. A Toyota dealer can/will not install a better fluid, you have to go to an independent shop for that.

The sooner the watery Toyota fluid is replaced, the better. Again, read the above few posts.

Please follow up here with any results, positive or negative (these are valuable data points for other Toyota Camry 2.5l owners).
Click to expand...
Since there are varying levels of thickness available and Toyota's ATF fluid is rated at 5.45 cSt, which from the below would you recommend trying first:

1) AMSOIL Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid at 7.5 cSt (2.05 cSt difference from Toyota's)
2) Castrol Transmax ATF/CVT Universal at 7.1 cSt (1.65 cSt difference)
3) AMSOIL Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid at 6.3 cSt (0.85 cSt difference)
4) Valvoline Valvoline Multi-Vehicle (ATF) Full Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid at 5.91 cSt (0.46 cSt difference)

Thanks.
 
#33 ·
aprilneal86 said:
I am having the same issues. Took mine to Toyota, now its worse then it ever was before. Mine has 210,000 miles now and I will have to spend the money to repair the converter. Toyota said they aren't responsible once out of warranty period. I feel screwed over by them and probably wont ever by another one.
Click to expand...
I feel ya. I'm going to update this thread when I flush out the old fluid and see if that helps. If changing the fluid (and with thicker fluids) does not help, then a class action lawsuit would be an option to help out folks that were left with no recourse.
 
#34 ·
Jotti said:
Since there are varying levels of thickness available and Toyota's ATF fluid is rated at 5.45 cSt, which from the below would you recommend trying first:

1) AMSOIL Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid at 7.5 cSt (2.05 cSt difference from Toyota's)
2) Castrol Transmax ATF/CVT Universal at 7.1 cSt (1.65 cSt difference)
3) AMSOIL Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid at 6.3 cSt (0.85 cSt difference)
4) Valvoline Valvoline Multi-Vehicle (ATF) Full Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid at 5.91 cSt (0.46 cSt difference)

Thanks.
Click to expand...
You didn't mention where you live that I can recall, so best to go with the Castrol ATF/CVT version as it is the thickest while still being WS-rated for these newer cars.
If that didn't give you enough of a "service interval" going forward (without shudder), then climate-permitting I might use the Amsoil Multi-Vehicle product or add in some ShudderFix to perhaps save the transmission from needed replacement.

Since you have one of the earlier gen-7 cars, I would drop the pan and filter and add the extra magnets from Toyota together with your 10-quart flush. At least the Castrol product is very reasonably priced with no boutique markup, not to say that the more-expensive fluids aren't in some way better.

Note that newer fluids often manage to be both T4 and WS-compatible, so it's not such a weird thing to try using a thicker T4-rated product (that isn't WS-rated) if the car isn't going to be seeing temperatures below say 20F or so.

A thicker, synthetic fluid is probably going to maintain the minimum needed viscosity for a lot longer than a thinner or non-synthetic fluid, all else being equal.

Note also that I was addressing a more-recent post by aprilneal86 in my most recent post.
 
#35 ·
dddd said:
You didn't mention where you live that I can recall, so best to go with the Castrol ATF/CVT version as it is the thickest while still being WS-rated for these newer cars.
If that didn't give you enough of a "service interval" going forward (without shudder), then climate-permitting I might use the Amsoil Multi-Vehicle product or add in some ShudderFix to perhaps save the transmission from needed replacement.

Since you have one of the earlier gen-7 cars, I would drop the pan and filter and add the extra magnets from Toyota together with your 10-quart flush. At least the Castrol product is very reasonably priced with no boutique markup, not to say that the more-expensive fluids aren't in some way better.

Note that newer fluids often manage to be both T4 and WS-compatible, so it's not such a weird thing to try using a thicker T4-rated product (that isn't WS-rated) if the car isn't going to be seeing temperatures below say 20F or so.

A thicker, synthetic fluid is probably going to maintain the minimum needed viscosity for a lot longer than a thinner or non-synthetic fluid, all else being equal.

Note also that I was addressing a more-recent post by aprilneal86 in my most recent post.
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I live in NY. On occasion we get under 20F.

Also, why 10 quarts? My fluid capacity is 6.9 quarts according to my owners manual.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Jotti said:
I live in NY. On occasion we get under 20F.

Also, why 10 quarts? My fluid capacity is 6.9 quarts according to my owners manual.
Click to expand...
There is going to be some mixing of new and old fluid since you're not draining all the oil out of the pan.

Draining the pan alone seems to yield only 2-1/2 quarts max, there's still another full quart in the pan (below the top of the threaded drain-plug bung).
Then there's all the places that the fluid gets pumped to, mainly the large torque-converter housing that holds ~2-3 quarts, plus the pump housing, the servos, accumulators, clutch packs and valving.

So considerable extra fluid is needed to purge most of the old fluid out, and the shifter should be kept moving every few seconds while the engine is idling (as the fluid drains out of the return line). I used a 4' extension hose so I could see from the driver's seat when any air starts burping into my clear waste jug.
Doing a conscientious "flushing" procedure as described, one might get nearly all of the benefit of a 12-quart flush using only 8 quarts, but read on. I fashioned a thin, flexible piece of curved silicon tubing to vacuum-extract an extra full quart of old fluid from below the pan's drain bung, so that this fluid wouldn't be able to mix with the new fluid I was adding. But I still ended up using 10 quarts for the full job as follows: 3qts refill pan, 1 quart over-fill pan, plus three 2-qt refills (the last one partially drained off during the level check).
Doing only two 2-qt purge/refills instead of three, and thus using only 8 quarts (2 gallons) of new fluid, would not be the end of the world (but be sure to use the thicker Castrol "ATF/CVT Universal" product for greatest effect).

The volume of air that belches out of the return line each time that the level in the pan gets low actually helps to expel more dirty fluid using less new fluid, so I only over-fill the trans fluid level by one quart before each startup as I run each successive ~2 quarts out from the cooler/return line.

Lastly, I believe that you can leave the left front tire and fill plug alone for this job, instead just use the disconnected return-line hose with an ~18" hose extension up to a funnel, and gravity-feed the new fluid in (warm fluid will flow faster if it's cool out).
This is useful if you're using tire ramps to perhaps level your car as I had to, see picture below.

The shifter needs to be run through the gears a couple of times after the final refill in order to displace all of the air now left in the servos and accumulators, so be sure that the trans is cool enough to allow for this extra minute of run time before the temperature starts exceeding the level-checking temperature (I try for 100-105F). Not purging the air will result in a low fluid level after your level-check drain-off (air will be displacing fluid!).
Note that it takes "forever" for the engine/transmission to cool below the fluid level checking temperature on a warm day, so allow for a possible "two-part" job with possible hours of cooling time before the final level-check. You could definitely speed the cooling somewhat by using a large fan.
Also be aware that IR temperature "readers" will read 5-10F LOW when aimed at bare or plated metal, or at white-painted surfaces. I applied a spot of black paint to my cylinder head to keep tabs on the overall lengthy cooling process on one warm afternoon.
You can calibrate such temperature-measurement devices using a medical thermometer, (those are usually accurate within one degree in the temperature range that we are talking about).

One more thing, don't drink beer during a job like this, if only to prevent spilled fluid (all in all this is an easy job to screw up in one way or another).

Image



Vacuum jar apparatus I made as a teenager in the late 1970's that I used for fully draining the Camry's transmission pan (albeit shown here being used to extract fluid from an older Corolla's transmission dipstick tube).
Image
 
#37 ·
aprilneal86 said:
I am having the same issues. Took mine to Toyota, now its worse then it ever was before. Mine has 210,000 miles now and I will have to spend the money to repair the converter. Toyota said they aren't responsible once out of warranty period. I feel screwed over by them and probably wont ever by another one.
Click to expand...
What work did they do to your vehicle?
 
#38 ·
Melissa2828 said:
I have a 2012 Camry and Smithtown dealer replaced original "recalled aka DEFECTIVE" Torque Converter back in 2017 with 60k miles. Today, 4 years later with an additional 60k miles, I am having the same shudder and it is worse than the first time. I went to the dealer and they confirmed it was the Torque converter again. They also told me there was nothing they can do but quoted me a price to replace. I called Toyota Corp and spoke with rep named Drew who seemed like a puppet for Toyota. They must have a script to reply to the customer because he kept repeating the same thing. He said that the enhancement program was a COURTESY! They did what they think they should have and they are not responsible for this same problem. The warranty expired 8 years after purchase which was jan 2021.
I do not believe that anyone should be so accepting of this problem and I am appalled that Toyota is NOT standing behind their vehicle. The "replaced" torque converter that doesn't routinely cause problems in any car especially a Toyota, is clearly Defective!
I don't see any recent posts on this and I was hoping someone had advice on how to deal with this or if anyone is experiencing the same problem after the repair? I do not have the ability to go and buy a new car and I do not have the funds to replace it. In addition, there must be something I could do about the conveniently expired warranty as we have been experiencing a Pandemic and it has effected everyone in some way. How does Toyota not take that into consideration? I would appreciate any feedback on this matter and thanks in advance for taking the time to respond!
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Hey! I am filing a class action lawsuit on them. They screwed thousands of people and want them to foot the bill of their faulty torque convter...infact, toyota is making a fortune on those thousands of dollars repair. Not only that, those camry's also gave worst gas mileage and weakened the transmission as well. Let me know if you want to be a part of it. I have had it with these crooks.
 
#39 ·
Melissa2828 said:
I have a 2012 Camry and Smithtown dealer replaced original "recalled aka DEFECTIVE" Torque Converter back in 2017 with 60k miles. Today, 4 years later with an additional 60k miles, I am having the same shudder and it is worse than the first time. I went to the dealer and they confirmed it was the Torque converter again. They also told me there was nothing they can do but quoted me a price to replace. I called Toyota Corp and spoke with rep named Drew who seemed like a puppet for Toyota. They must have a script to reply to the customer because he kept repeating the same thing. He said that the enhancement program was a COURTESY! They did what they think they should have and they are not responsible for this same problem. The warranty expired 8 years after purchase which was jan 2021.
I do not believe that anyone should be so accepting of this problem and I am appalled that Toyota is NOT standing behind their vehicle. The "replaced" torque converter that doesn't routinely cause problems in any car especially a Toyota, is clearly Defective!
I don't see any recent posts on this and I was hoping someone had advice on how to deal with this or if anyone is experiencing the same problem after the repair? I do not have the ability to go and buy a new car and I do not have the funds to replace it. In addition, there must be something I could do about the conveniently expired warranty as we have been experiencing a Pandemic and it has effected everyone in some way. How does Toyota not take that into consideration? I would appreciate any feedback on this matter and thanks in advance for taking the time to respond!
Click to expand...
Hi! I Just started a thread about this issue recently. After I did that more threads started popping up about this model series faulty torque converters. I found a thread with screen name Toyotasuit who is going to file a class action suit against toyota for this known issue.

Thread link
www.toyotanation.com

Torque Converter 2012 Camry

I purchased my 2012 Camry brand new. I have taken it to the dealership for every single oil change, maintenance and tire purchase. I have taken great care of this vehicle. It only has 103,000 miles. Over the last few months it has developed a shudder at lower speeds. After reading about this...
www.toyotanation.com www.toyotanation.com

Perhaps we can find more people experiencing this same issue and add to the class action suit. From all the accounts of people experiencing this issue they sound damn near the same if not identical. Same symptoms same complaints for same model. So many documented cases already.
 
#40 ·
nozama said:
Recently I realized I had the same issue.I started to notice shaking when accelerating around ~40 miles/hr a year ago but it's not severe and only noticeable on very smooth newly paved road. because of the pandemic, I didn't bring it to a shop. recently I talked to a mechanic and he said it's transmission shudder and suggested a few things to try.

then when googling this issue, I noticed this extended warranty. however, unfortunately, for my car, this 8 yr extended warranty expired 4 months ago. I just brought the car to a dealer and they declined the request for warranty coverage.
the problem is that I didn't know it's called transmission shudder and didn't know the extended warranty (I didn't check Toyota recall a few times and apparently nothing there).

any Camry owner had a successful case in convincing Toyota to offer this extended warranty a few months after expiration?

PS: the 1st owner (a friend) bought this car in Nov 2013 but he didn't receive any letter about the extended warranty. I bought it from him in 2017 and now has 90k on it. very frustrating as I always trust the quality of Toyota.
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I tried so hard to convince them but they declined the service at no charge 100009 miles warranty 5 months ago I never this issue I never got a letter stating anything about this shudder but always getting letter to buy new cars lol this need legal issue it should be a recall not warranty their TC malfunction not our problem why we have to deal with their mistakes that’s wrongful from Toyota .
 
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