You might as well keep your 8 year old SUV and try to upgrade it with what all your options. I don’t think any new cars are easy to work on nowadays.

 

As a general rule, I agree with you on the maintenance issue. I'm certainly not getting any younger and the modern automobile is getting more sophisticated with more computers and software taking the place of, shall I say, analog/mechanical functions. Anyway, I do the majority of my maintenance because I come from a family of auto mechanics and my 2 brothers each have large auto repair businesses where I have access to all the necessary diagostic equipment and expertise. Having those 2 knucklehead brothers is not always a plus, by the way. The availability of parts is part of my maintenance equation. My other vehicle is an Audi. The AWD is surprising good, much better than I expected, but during a recall I had to wait over 3 months for a part to be shipped from Germany. I'd perfer that not to be the case with my next SUV.

Anyway, I do want to replace the old 2 row SUV, even though like you mantioned, I seriously did consider keeping it until it rusts into oblivion.

 

5. Maintainable, i.e. easy to work on, I do all my own maintenance

For every new vehicle I buy, I've slowly relinquished my ability and right to service. Heck, I need techstream to bleed the brakes on my HiHy. Best I can hope for are tire and some fluid changes.

 

I need techstream to bleed the brakes on my HiHy

Pardon my (genuine!) ignorance but what part of the brake procedure requires Techstream? Just looking to learn something here...

 

You could look at a Mazda CX-9 as I think you can get one that meets all of those requirements (I don't know about DIY maintenance though). The deal-breaker for me though was that the CX-9 only comes with a turbo-charged 4 cylinder, and I wanted a V-6. That's just a personal bias of mine, although it does seem like very capable engine from the reviews I've seen.

For the first time this year Mazda ranked #1 on Consumer Reports reliability list. Although I did hear somewhere that could be due to the fact that Mazda refreshes their models less frequently than say Toyota. So a less frequently refreshed model that's had the kinks worked out will be more reliable (although perhaps not as modern), than a more frequently updated model line which Toyota seems to be doing a lot lately.

People love the Kia Telluride and the Hyundai Palisade as well. But I still have that personal, perhaps unfounded, prejudice against those brands that they have great initial quality and the warranty, but deteriorate over time, and aren't a good "drive until the wheels fall off" type of vehicle.

I looked at the Honda Pilot as well, but I had a Honda Odyssey a while back and that taught me Honda's Achilles heel in their bigger vehicles is the transmission.

 

Thank for your thoughtful response. Its interesting you mentioned the CX9, Mazda wasn't originally on my radar, but my wife also recommended we look at it. I wasn't a big fan of turbos either, but we ended up with one in my wife's Audi. So I'm knocking on wood that so far after 6 years so good ... no issues, no repairs etc. So based on that I've become more comfortable with turbos ... but ask me again in another 100,000 miles and I may be singing a different tune. Unfortunately, Central New York weather is really hard on vehicles, so its a crap shoot. I like your comment that the Mazda's don't change much year over year ... I actually like that as a characteristic, it speaks of stability. I also agree with your assessment on the the Telluride/Palisade ... while they get rave reviews it is too hard for me to make that leap. I haven't diven one and suspect I probably won't, but what I have read is pretty much positive. I'd like to hear owners' experiencs after 100,000 miles.

 

I thought about doing the same with my 2001 Lexus LX470, but I only need one car that’s dependable and the Lexus would have surprise issues because of age. My father was a mechanic all his life and fixed his own car until he retire in the early 2000. He said with the new computerized cars, he wasn’t able to work on his own car anymore.

 

It comes down to personal preference, since most of the vehicles in that segment will meet your basic feature requirements (bench 2nd and 3rd row seats, heated steering wheel and seats, AWD). The configurations may differ – for example, the Highlander (and possibly the Palisade) are captain‘s chairs only in their top trims, so that could push you a different way if you’re looking at a fully optioned vehicle.

As for maintenance, I’m totally the opposite. Toyota includes scheduled maintenance for the first two years and I have no qualms taking it to the dealer for oil changes and other maintenance beyond that. I don’t have access to the tools or expertise or experience working mechanically on vehicles, and don’t have a strong desire to invest in it.

My uncle is a retired auto mechanic, but, like others have mentioned, with the increasing amount of proprietary equipment and expertise needed, he also takes his car in to a dealer vs. trying to do it himself (though he does his own oil changes).

 

It comes down to personal preference, since most of the vehicles in that segment will meet your basic feature requirements (bench 2nd and 3rd row seats, heated steering wheel and seats, AWD). The configurations may differ – for example, the Highlander (and possibly the Palisade) are captain‘s chairs only in their top trims, so that could push you a different way if you’re looking at a fully optioned vehicle.

As for maintenance, I’m totally the opposite. Toyota includes scheduled maintenance for the first two years and I have no qualms taking it to the dealer for oil changes and other maintenance beyond that. I don’t have access to the tools or expertise or experience working mechanically on vehicles, and don’t have a strong desire to invest in it.

My uncle is a retired auto mechanic, but, like others have mentioned, with the increasing amount of proprietary equipment and expertise needed, he also takes his car in to a dealer vs. trying to do it himself (though he does his own oil changes).

Thank you for your insights, I've been getting some good ideas from the forum. It seeems like the majority of the SUVs in the 3 row segment will probably work for me. I like the free two year maintenance. I don't know what it covers but the free oil changes; especially if it is synthetic oil, is a big plus.

I can relate to your uncle ... the key to maintenance is having the right tools and gearing up with the necessary diagnostic equipment can be a big investment.

 

I'm a "keep it till the wheels fall off" kind of guy. If I was buying a new car, I'd be looking at a 25 year ownership span, at a minimum. I still have my 2001 Camry we bought new almost 20 years ago, with no plans on getting rid of it within the next decade.

There is not a single vehicle besides the Highlander or Highlander Hybrid I'd consider in this class.

Pilot --- 2020 model with the 6 speed auto is OK. I actually like the Pilot better than the Highlander, since it's roomier inside, but they are dropping the 6 speed auto and going with a ZF-designed 9 speed automatic starting in 2021 that has not been reliable.

Pathfinder --- CVT. No. Nissan makes the most unreliable CVTs in the market, and CVTs are a particularly bad application on a heavy vehicle like the Pathfinder. Better suited for a Civic/Corolla type car.

Ascent --- CVT, and 2.4L turbo, and direct injection. No way.

CX-9 --- turbo is a no-go for me.

Atlas --- VWs have never been known for reliability. I don't expect this to change with the Atlas.

Palisade/Telluride --- brand new direct injected engine. I don't have confidence that this engine won't suffer from carbon buildup as it ages. Too early to tell.

Explorer, Traverse, Durango --- none of these have a strong reliability record.

So, in my opinion, Highlander or Highlander Hybrid is the only thing I would even look at.

 

Good vehicle by vehicle summary, thank you. I haven't considered test driving some of these SUVs at all, like the Ford Explorer or Dodge Durrango. It seems the long term reliability may be their biggest short coming. And because, like you, I keep my vehicles a long time. You said, you keep your vehicles 20+ years; I'd love to do that but unfortunately that isn't an option in Central New York, because as long as there is metal in the body and underbody, they corrode into a pile of rust around the 10 year point ... unless of course, you don't drive them in the winter. Which is exactly what I do with our 2 vintage Corvettes, 71 and 91. And because of that, they still look and drive like brand new ... that's brand new trucks.

To your point, I do like what I read, as well as, the YouTube video reviews on the Highlander. It is definately high on my very short list. I'm not a fan of any of the hybrids, and I have no data to back up why I feel that way, although most of my collegues at school have them.

I agree with you on CVTs, I like the concept; but it appears that their implementation is flawed. From what I've read, they have a tendancy to overheat and their drive band tends to stretch prematurely. Hey, I'm no transmission expert but I suspect these problems will solved eventually. They probably need to work the kinks out of them which is probably a few years off yet. Turbos on the other hand, I wasn't a big fan until my wife got her Audi A4 six years ago... and knock on wood.... no issues yet. So I've softened my resistance to them. But we haven't quite hit 100k miles yet, so I may be changing my mind. I'll check with my brothers to see how many turbo repairs come into their shops. Something a smarter man would have done before buying our Audi.

Thank you for your input.

 

I'm starting my research looking for input. Looking to replace and upgrade my current 8 year old SUV. My requirements include:

1. 3 row seating with bench seats in 2nd and 3rd row, although these will be rarely used
2. Heated seats and steering wheel, we have pretty darn cold winters
3. AWD, we get on average 130 inches or more of snow each winter
4. Needs to be reliable
5. Maintainable, i.e. easy to work on, I do all my own maintenance
6. Well manored, i.e. handles well and predictably

I'm sure there are other characteristics or options I'd like to have but those above are the important ones for my needs, any others are nice to have. Of course, price is a consideration and from what I can tell all of the major 3 row SUVs are similairly priced and we are fortunate here in Central New York where all dealer brands are discounted so I'll leave price out of our discussions for now.

There are a number of SUV good choices in this 3 row market so I'd appreciate your vehicle experiences both pro and con for any of vehicles in the segment. thank you all.

You're posting in a Highlander forum, of course, it's going to be biased towards the Highlander.
2. Heated steering wheel: I believe while the Highlander is available with it, it's not the entire steering that is heated, just the sides.
3. AWD.. that's a given for everyone... but since CNY gets a lot of snow, and upstate NY just got hammered by the recent Nor'easater... I hope you're considering a separate set of wheels with winter tires for it also.
4. Toyota's are reliable. Honda's are usually reliable, except for the ticking time bomb known as their transmission. Ditto with the Ascent CVT, and other Jatco transmissions (ie Nissans).
5. The VW Atlas is fairly maintainable and although special tools are needed, specialized VW scanners are readily available (ie VCDS and OBD-eleven), and because it's pretty maintainable, it's pretty modifiable also. Spark plugs are easy to do on a VR6 and 2.0TSI engine, for example.
6. All of them are pretty much well mannered.

 

Thank your your candid input. I expect and hope that most of the members of any forum have biases, in this case the Highlander. You are the people than know the Highlander the best. So I value your comments. I have no insight into any of the new SUVs, its been over 8 years since I last shopped for an SUV. I can read all I want or watch a zillion YouTube videos, but they are no substitute for people like you that live with the vehicle every day.

2. Heated Steering wheel: I'm ok with just the sides been heated. Better than no heat at all. I suspect the manufacturer does this for some reason... not sure why.
3. AWD: My understanding from other and supported by YouTude that Toyota has 2 versions of AWD. I'd like to know the pros and cons of each.
4. Reliability: I owned a RAV and a Corolla years ago. They were pretty reliable but not any more reliable than what I have now, which all good. If the Highlander is as reliable, then I'll be happy.
5. Maintainability: I realize the modern automobile is so much more dependent on computer/software but there are advantages such that they mainain and report error codes taking the guesswork out of alot of maintenance problems. From what others have reported Toyota offers free two year maintenance, which is a plus. I do quite a bit maintenance by myself, which I actually enjoy. But oil changes are messy so having Toyota do them is something I'd take advantage of. However, if brakes, spark plugs, oil filter, water pump, fuel pump are reasonably accessible that's a big plus for me as well. For exhaust systems, front-end work and engine rebuilds I'd outsource to my brothers. Which usually puts me down on the list where paying customers get priority.
6. Well-mannored: I like to drive. Here in central New York there is no traffic, so driving can still be fun. So a spirited, good handling vehicle would be greatly appreciated.

Good comments, Thank you.

 

Whatever you buy it will be obsolete within 10 yeara
I feel we a close to an automotive revolution
Some of toyotas recent decisions tend to indicate this

 

Whatever you buy it will be obsolete within 10 yeara
I feel we a close to an automotive revolution
Some of toyotas recent decisions tend to indicate this

Well, obsolete for the person wanting to buy the latest and greatest. I'm content with the tech currently in place and will be for many, many years to come.

 

I went with the V6 Highlander Platinum for the Torque Vectoring AWD. With proper tires it should, technically, be the best AWD system.

Watch the Driving Sports TV videos on YouTube for each of the vehicles on your list. He tests out the AWD systems.

I gave up on the Hyundai/Kia lineup after reading their forums and hearing about their poor dealer experiences.

 

Tell me more about torque vectoring. It seems that this AWD system isn't used across the full line of Highlanders, or so I've read. Is it better than the other AWD from other brands?

I'm leary about the Kia/Hyundai vehicles. They need more time of actual use. From the stats I have found on goodcarbadcar.net Highlanders outsell them at least 3 to 1. However, I just don't see many on the road around here. I may look at them in 3+ years if they continue to get good reviews and are priced right. I'm just not an early adopter.

 

IDK, in about 10 years, I'd get bored of driving one vehicle and would look to replace it...the only Toyota that are known to outlast everything else including other Toyota models would be a 4Runner or Land Cruiser...the Highlander has more tech than ever before.

 

Toyota AWD systems.

 

You state you own an Audi and have access to repair facilities. I grew up in that environment, and know the mindset. (We are fixing a ML350 with a typical bad balance shaft right now and it is just a brainless matter of doing the job. Cost not in the equation.) BUT BUT BUT as a good buddy who also comes from a shop family says: Toyotas are God's gift to man. No much fixing required (usually.) I used to get near new wrecks and fix them. Easy. Well not today anymore....too much potential for really bad pitas unless it is a light fix and then maybe too.

Note my dad a devote Mercedes person led us to go off reservation when he bought a Prius. 12 years later, it needs nothing to be safe, but it getting old. It is dated. I took a cue from him and our family friend and we have gone Toyota. They are NOT the most advanced. BUT, they tend not to have issues requiring any real work or let you walk. We buy the extra warranty. It gives us olders a warm fuzzy and has been worth it in the past. Mind you we made, and still do, good money off car repair but I am TIRED of fixing my own cars! I will play with one. I will flip one. But I do not need to rely on those. My own cars simply need to be nice and drive. I see the Toyotas will be dated in 10 years. The tech for sure. So it is off to the next one. Simple.

In 2035 I will be driving new electric just like Gavin wants us to. For now, it is easy to use the Toyota Care. Double up on the fluid changes. Let the warrenty take care of the rest for the next 8 years. Mindless.

I suggest you read up here about the Highlander "faults" which tend to be in the realm of who cares and we can not do anything much about it. There are near zero serious systemic things to worry about. Let me state the Toyota has quirks. Stuff that bothers. Things you scratch your head about. But no show stoppers.

My life's experience tells me to stay away from any car that has a history of wanting constant mechanical attention. (My Porsche, old Mercedes and old VW Multivan are all toys.....and those do not count....)

Toyotas are near brainless to own. I enjoy that aspect a lot. But they are not perfect.

 

You state you own an Audi and have access to repair facilities. I grew up in that environment, and know the mindset. (We are fixing a ML350 with a typical bad balance shaft right now and it is just a brainless matter of doing the job. Cost not in the equation.) BUT BUT BUT as a good buddy who also comes from a shop family says: Toyotas are God's gift to man. No much fixing required (usually.) I used to get near new wrecks and fix them. Easy. Well not today anymore....too much potential for really bad pitas unless it is a light fix and then maybe too.

Note my dad a devote Mercedes person led us to go off reservation when he bought a Prius. 12 years later, it needs nothing to be safe, but it getting old. It is dated. I took a cue from him and our family friend and we have gone Toyota. They are NOT the most advanced. BUT, they tend not to have issues requiring any real work or let you walk. We buy the extra warranty. It gives us olders a warm fuzzy and has been worth it in the past. Mind you we made, and still do, good money off car repair but I am TIRED of fixing my own cars! I will play with one. I will flip one. But I do not need to rely on those. My own cars simply need to be nice and drive. I see the Toyotas will be dated in 10 years. The tech for sure. So it is off to the next one. Simple.

In 2035 I will be driving new electric just like Gavin wants us to. For now, it is easy to use the Toyota Care. Double up on the fluid changes. Let the warrenty take care of the rest for the next 8 years. Mindless.

I suggest you read up here about the Highlander "faults" which tend to be in the realm of who cares and we can not do anything much about it. There are near zero serious systemic things to worry about. Let me state the Toyota has quirks. Stuff that bothers. Things you scratch your head about. But no show stoppers.

My life's experience tells me to stay away from any car that has a history of wanting constant mechanical attention. (My Porsche, old Mercedes and old VW Multivan are all toys.....and those do not count....)

Toyotas are near brainless to own. I enjoy that aspect a lot. But they are not perfect.

Very thoughtful, thank you. I've owned 2 Toyotas (12 and 15) and they have served us well. You are correct they weren't flashy or sexy, but dependable. My wife always complained about our RAV and Camry saying the seats weren't comfortable, so we gave them to our kids. They did require maintenance but, no more so than my other cars. However, I do find Toyotas easier to work on than say my wife's Audi. I can appreciate that auto maintenance is a personal choice and to do maintenance requires expertise, curiousity, right tools, space, physical endurance so I can see why most people outsource it. Many of our friends and relatives have moved to Florida to walk the the beach, play golf and consume copius amounts of alcohol. So we all pick our own poison. I suspect in the age of all electric vehicles the majority of the maintenance will be battery replacements and body repairs. Since I'm a tinkerer, I enjoy fixing stuff. Keeps me young.

So back to the Highlander, the Limited looks like it checks off most of my boxes and is high on my short list. Now its time to schedule test drives and face the music with the sales people which to me is the most distasteful part of the car buying process.

Thank you for you insights.

 

BTW: The issue of spark plugs is near mute too. The new plugs are rated at 120K miles. So for me, that is about once a decade......I may do that once in my ownership life time. They are designed not to need too much parts replacement. Toyotas are good like that.....

 

Hmm, I thought the plugs only good for 60K ever since Toyota went to direct (& port) injection?

I know the 2017-2019 Highlanders called for 60K plug replacements. Does your 2020 call for 120K? That would be interesting, as I thought the engines were the same.

 

I'm starting my research looking for input. Looking to replace and upgrade my current 8 year old SUV. My requirements include:

1. 3 row seating with bench seats in 2nd and 3rd row, although these will be rarely used

I'm not sure why you listed 3-row as a requirement (and #1) even though rarely used, but I think you may be looking in the wrong SUV class if you intend for anyone but little kids to sit in the 3rd row for long.

 

Highlander does not meet that requirement, period.

 

I'm starting my research looking for input. Looking to replace and upgrade my current 8 year old SUV. My requirements include:

1. 3 row seating with bench seats in 2nd and 3rd row, although these will be rarely used
2. Heated seats and steering wheel, we have pretty darn cold winters
3. AWD, we get on average 130 inches or more of snow each winter
4. Needs to be reliable
5. Maintainable, i.e. easy to work on, I do all my own maintenance
6. Well manored, i.e. handles well and predictably

I'm sure there are other characteristics or options I'd like to have but those above are the important ones for my needs, any others are nice to have. Of course, price is a consideration and from what I can tell all of the major 3 row SUVs are similairly priced and we are fortunate here in Central New York where all dealer brands are discounted so I'll leave price out of our discussions for now.

There are a number of SUV good choices in this 3 row market so I'd appreciate your vehicle experiences both pro and con for any of vehicles in the segment. thank you all.

I'm not sure if most of people responding to your reply listen to your questions.

I'm starting my research looking for input. Looking to replace and upgrade my current 8 year old SUV. My requirements include:

1. 3 row seating with bench seats in 2nd and 3rd row, although these will be rarely used
2. Heated seats and steering wheel, we have pretty darn cold winters
3. AWD, we get on average 130 inches or more of snow each winter
4. Needs to be reliable
5. Maintainable, i.e. easy to work on, I do all my own maintenance
6. Well manored, i.e. handles well and predictably

I'm sure there are other characteristics or options I'd like to have but those above are the important ones for my needs, any others are nice to have. Of course, price is a consideration and from what I can tell all of the major 3 row SUVs are similairly priced and we are fortunate here in Central New York where all dealer brands are discounted so I'll leave price out of our discussions for now.

There are a number of SUV good choices in this 3 row market so I'd appreciate your vehicle experiences both pro and con for any of vehicles in the segment. thank you all.

Reading the replies, no one replied to your questions. Buy a used 2014 to 2019 highlander, awd. Have a second set of winter tires. If you need a more rugged vehicle buy a little bit older landcrusier. Still, have a second set of winter tires.

 

I'm not sure if most of people responding to your reply listen to your questions.

Reading the replies, no one replied to your questions. Buy a used 2014 to 2019 highlander, awd. Have a second set of winter tires. If you need a more rugged vehicle buy a little bit older landcrusier. Still, have a second set of winter tires.

Um, post number 5?

 

I cannot speak to the maintenance since we do not do our own maintenance. I have a 2004 4Runner that I bought new that has ~235K miles on it and is still running like a champ. We actually thought we'd get another 4Runner, but were discouraged by the lack of updates. We rented a Nissan Pathfinder on a recent trip and my husband loved it, so we went to look at new Pathfinders. We did like them for the most part, but they just didn't fit us as well as the old 4Runner (even though we find the leg room to be a bit lacking in it, and the headroom to be a little restrictive for my husband... we're both tall). With the great reviews online, we went to check out the Kia Telluride and the Hyundai Palisade. Both were impressive from a distance but were really cheap looking up close, from the exterior paint with no depth whatsoever and faint orange peel to the interior with cheap looking controls and fake woodgrain that looked like it was painted on and would rub off in no time. We were so put off by the visual lack of quality that we didn't even test drive them.

I then took to the internet to find out of the 4Runner was set to be overhauled next year since we didn't really HAVE to get a new car this year and saw the great reviews on the Highlander, including all the safety features and the 5-star safety rating. When I bought my 4Runner 16 years ago, I had actually set out to buy a Highlander. However, the Highlander at that time didn't "fit right." The salesperson listened to what I was explaining about the Highlander and said I might want to try a 4Runner... sat in it, took it for a test drive and was hooked. Got to thinking that maybe we should take a look at today's Highlander since the style had changed so much.

We headed back to the Toyota dealer to take a look at the new Highlanders. Right off the bat, it was obvious that Toyota provides a higher quality paint job than many of its competitors (yes, this is important to me). We got into the on of the vehicles on the lot and were impressed by the legroom, the headroom and general look and feel of it being a higher quality car. Since the saleman kind of disappeared on us (I guess he thought we were just lookie-loos?), we didn't take it for a test drive at that time and instead left and did some more research. We like what we found in the reviews. One of the biggest complaints online was the lack of legroom in the third row and that didn't matter to us as it's unlikely we'll ever use it.

We went back later and found a different salesman and did test drives in a couple of different models until we felt pretty confident we'd made a decision. The purchase was a whole 'nother adventure, as it took us three dealderships to finally get what we wanted a week after we did the initial test drive, but we're very happy with our purchase. We love the features. My husband, who's always too warm, rides with his seat cooler on. I'm more likely to be cold and love my heated seat (even when we're running the A/C, the heated seat helps my problem back). The 360 view cameras, automatic slowdown when on cruise control and approaching another vehicle, and numerous other safety features make me very happy. The sound system is quite impressive. Note that if you really need a third row for regular use with actual people, you may need to look at other vehicles. We got the hybrid, and based on our first fill-up, the impressive mileage is right there where it's supposed to be. We're both IT workers and find all the the built-in technology of the car, particularly the hybrid, to be fascinating. We're learning how to best use it a little at a time, but I can see where it would be a bit overwhelming if you're not tech-comfortable.

 

I cannot speak to the maintenance since we do not do our own maintenance. I have a 2004 4Runner that I bought new that has ~235K miles on it and is still running like a champ. We actually thought we'd get another 4Runner, but were discouraged by the lack of updates. We rented a Nissan Pathfinder on a recent trip and my husband loved it, so we went to look at new Pathfinders. We did like them for the most part, but they just didn't fit us as well as the old 4Runner (even though we find the leg room to be a bit lacking in it, and the headroom to be a little restrictive for my husband... we're both tall). With the great reviews online, we went to check out the Kia Telluride and the Hyundai Palisade. Both were impressive from a distance but were really cheap looking up close, from the exterior paint with no depth whatsoever and faint orange peel to the interior with cheap looking controls and fake woodgrain that looked like it was painted on and would rub off in no time. We were so put off by the visual lack of quality that we didn't even test drive them.

I then took to the internet to find out of the 4Runner was set to be overhauled next year since we didn't really HAVE to get a new car this year and saw the great reviews on the Highlander, including all the safety features and the 5-star safety rating. When I bought my 4Runner 16 years ago, I had actually set out to buy a Highlander. However, the Highlander at that time didn't "fit right." The salesperson listened to what I was explaining about the Highlander and said I might want to try a 4Runner... sat in it, took it for a test drive and was hooked. Got to thinking that maybe we should take a look at today's Highlander since the style had changed so much.

We headed back to the Toyota dealer to take a look at the new Highlanders. Right off the bat, it was obvious that Toyota provides a higher quality paint job than many of its competitors (yes, this is important to me). We got into the on of the vehicles on the lot and were impressed by the legroom, the headroom and general look and feel of it being a higher quality car. Since the saleman kind of disappeared on us (I guess he thought we were just lookie-loos?), we didn't take it for a test drive at that time and instead left and did some more research. We like what we found in the reviews. One of the biggest complaints online was the lack of legroom in the third row and that didn't matter to us as it's unlikely we'll ever use it.

We went back later and found a different salesman and did test drives in a couple of different models until we felt pretty confident we'd made a decision. The purchase was a whole 'nother adventure, as it took us three dealderships to finally get what we wanted a week after we did the initial test drive, but we're very happy with our purchase. We love the features. My husband, who's always too warm, rides with his seat cooler on. I'm more likely to be cold and love my heated seat (even when we're running the A/C, the heated seat helps my problem back). The 360 view cameras, automatic slowdown when on cruise control and approaching another vehicle, and numerous other safety features make me very happy. The sound system is quite impressive. Note that if you really need a third row for regular use with actual people, you may need to look at other vehicles. We got the hybrid, and based on our first fill-up, the impressive mileage is right there where it's supposed to be. We're both IT workers and find all the the built-in technology of the car, particularly the hybrid, to be fascinating. We're learning how to best use it a little at a time, but I can see where it would be a bit overwhelming if you're not tech-comfortable.

It would be nice to see reviewers test drive vehicles 2 years old with similar mileage
A highlander and say a telluride might be similar new but are they comparable after a couple of years use or more?
My guess the Toyota will still feel good and the Kia will seem a bit tired
Switch gear on Toyota’s are of good quality
Running gear etc are of good quality you get what you pay for
Other brands will give more flash but that has to come at the expense of what you don’t see

 

The 12.3" display with the 360 birds-eye view was a must for us as well and pretty much the reason we got the Limited since it was not an option on the lower models. It was the birds-eye view that we wanted... the 12.3" display just came along for the ride. We also would have liked the camera rear view mirror, though I think it would take a little getting used to, but that's only on the Platinum. We were ambivalent on the bench vs. captain's seats for the middle row (the one we bought has the captain's seats), but did not want the Platinum's panoramic glass roof. I think that optional caramel interior is a "love it or hate it" kind of thing. The first dealership showed us one of those and the immediate reaction from both of us was, "EWWW!!!" I can see where someone who's into orange and wants something different might like it, but it was not for us.

I also hate the car buying process. Maybe that's why I buy Toyotas, so I don't have to do it again for 15 years or so. My only "fun buys" have been used classic cars. The main driver car buys are never fun.

 

I agree with you on a number of points ... I'm leaning toward the Limited and I also can do without the Platinum's unique interior colors and the Pano roof, but I would love a review camera and 360 view. And boy do I love classic cars ... actually have 2 of them. Guess I'm just a motorhead.

 

I upgraded from a 2012 Highlander Limited to a 2019 Highlander XLE. Great SUV with the exception of the transmission, I don't like it and considering selling this one and moving over to a competitor. This has been my fourth Toyota, always liked them, but not this one!

 

Care to share why?

 

As someone who had a 2019 4Runner limited before my 2020 Highlander platinum. The 4Runner definitely feels more sturdy and well built over the highlander. Reason I got rid of it was space and height. My elderly mom can’t get in the 4Runner easy due to its height. She slides right into the highlander. Also more cargo space in the highlander and a smoother ride with better gas mileage. I had the 3rd row. It was completely not usable even for kids. However if I didn’t need it for kids or my mom, it stay with the 4Runner.

 

I considered getting another 4Runner Limited. I'm usually not a fan of black paint, but the all black Nightshade was tempting. I'm going Highlander this time around largely to get something different -- and I really like what Toyota did with the current-gen Camry and the TNGA platform.

I'm looking forward to the next-gen 4Runner, reportedly arriving for the 2023 model year.

 

I'm starting my research looking for input. Looking to replace and upgrade my current 8 year old SUV. My requirements include:

1. 3 row seating with bench seats in 2nd and 3rd row, although these will be rarely used
2. Heated seats and steering wheel, we have pretty darn cold winters
3. AWD, we get on average 130 inches or more of snow each winter
4. Needs to be reliable
5. Maintainable, i.e. easy to work on, I do all my own maintenance
6. Well manored, i.e. handles well and predictably

I'm sure there are other characteristics or options I'd like to have but those above are the important ones for my needs, any others are nice to have. Of course, price is a consideration and from what I can tell all of the major 3 row SUVs are similairly priced and we are fortunate here in Central New York where all dealer brands are discounted so I'll leave price out of our discussions for now.

There are a number of SUV good choices in this 3 row market so I'd appreciate your vehicle experiences both pro and con for any of vehicles in the segment. thank you all.

Tough question, I have been in the market for a year. In the end I will likely get a Highlander but I am not excited by them.
I currently drive a gen 2 pilot and I love the boxiness. I dislike that all midsize SUVs look alike. When I was driving my wife’s highlander I decided why new midsize suvs make me feel claustrophobic. The windshield feels like it goes to your face, my pilot the windshield is more upright. I really wish there was a good boxy midsize option.

 

I would not compare a 4Runner to the Highlander... one is a truck and the other is a SUV. Two very different rides.

 

I think you meant to say, the 4Runner is a truck and the Highlander is a glorified station wagon.

 

Just a short update... I test drove the 2021 Highlander XSE yesterday. I wanted to test drive the Limited because that trim has the heated steering wheel, which was one of my requirements, but our sales person was new and didn't know much about the product line but we agreed to work with him anyway. So here is our experience with the 30 minute test drive of the XSE:

1. The XSE can only be had with captain's chairs which is fine for some, but doesn't work for us.
2. We took it on the road and when we got to 50+ MPH there was a loud wind noise coming from the driver's side. At first I thought the driver's window was open a crack so I tried closing the window. The window was already closed, so I don't know where the noise was coming from. The sales person didn't know either and acted nonchalant.
3. The transmission seemed to hunt for the right gear usually when slowing down for a traffic signal then accelerating.
4. The steering wheel had no road feel, just effortless turning. Its either a good thing for some and ungood for others
5. The tailgate wouldn't open all the way, it openned about 6 inches then stopped. The sales guy had to pull it open the rest of the way
6. The dashboard was well layed out and the graphics were great, The traffic sign recognition worked great.
7. I found the driver's seat firm but comfortable, my wife found the passenger seat uncomfortable stating that it was cutting in the thigh area. But she said this about the other two Toyotas we owned in the past.
8. The sales person said the XSE is supposed to be the sportier and better handling Highlander, I didn't feel that it cornered and better than the other Highlander trims.

I think the Highlander is a nice SUV but our first test drive of the 2021 XSE was plagued but a few unexpected challenges. I hope our experience was the exception, has anyone else had a similar experience?

Poppy D

 

2. We took it on the road and when we got to 50+ MPH there was a loud wind noise coming from the driver's side. At first I thought the driver's window was open a crack so I tried closing the window. The window was already closed, so I don't know where the noise was coming from. The sales person didn't know either and acted nonchalant.

5. The tailgate wouldn't open all the way, it openned about 6 inches then stopped. The sales guy had to pull it open the rest of the way

- Wind noise seem to be a common issue with a lot of people. I didn't have any in my Limited. Neither did my brother, who also got a limited.

- As for the lift gate, it might have been manually set to only a short distance. This is an easy fix in the setting.

- As for the salesperson not being knowledgeable, this is very common. People on this board are far more knowledgeable about the car than the salespeople. Same with Service Reps. I've dealt with service reps who know nothing about the car.

 

The transmission in particular has received some complaints. A lot of people don't like how it shifts. It's supposed to "adapt" to your driving style. I think you would get used to it with time, and the car will also get used to you as a driver, but make sure that you can live with the transmission as-is. There have been a few failures on the early models when this transmission first came out on the Sienna, around 2017-2018, but they seemed to have fixed it with the newer models and I have no doubt that Toyota's 8-speed is still the most reliable one on the market. Just make sure the transmission gearing and programming isn't going to drive you nuts.

 

The members in this forum all seem to have reliable Highlanders. It also sounds like yours is shifting normally which is assuring. I just figured the XSE, being so new, wasn't programmed to shift normally, so I wasn't concerned. I was hoping for an intelligent explanation from the sales guy. I get the sense that most sales people don't care to learn about the cars they sell. As an aside, I test drove a CX9 GT yesterday, nice vehicle. The sales manager came out to talk to me and said he has two Toyotas, Tundra and Camry ... what does that say to a potential customer?

 

When we test drove a Highlander L, wind noise started about 45 MPH. Seems to be a common complaint.

 

I just purchased my Highlander Platinum a few hours ago. I did have 2 test drives (both in Platinum trims) prior to making my purchase. I did not notice much of a wind noise during my test drives and on my way home with my Highlander. Also the transmission shifting patterns I have no issue with as I am coming from a 2018 Camry XSE V6. Talking about the competition my old lady just got out of her Mazda CX-5 and into a Mazda CX-9 Carbon Edition (picked it up in NY) last Friday and drove back to MD. I will admit the Mazda is much quieter, the interior look a lot better and it is more engaging to drive (handling, steering feel etc...). It was tempting but I had to stick with Toyota because I know the reliability and the V6 sound is something the 4 banger turbo just cannot replicate.

 

I think both the Highlander in the upper trims, like the Limited and up, and the CX9 in Grand Touring and up are very refined and comfortable vehicles. I did find that the CX9 handled much better than the Highlander XSE, the sportier Highlander version. I think many of the Mazda buyers like that characteristic about their vehicles. I have to admit I was impressed with the CX9 too. For people that tow or have an adversion to turbos the V6 Highlander is the way to go. Since our other car has a 4 cyl turbo, is over 6 years old and high mileage I've gotton used to the turbo and I have no intention to tow.

I do think the Highlander will have a much better resale value ... but for some people who drive their vehicles until the wheels fall off or rust into oblivion, then resale value isn't an issue for them. Again just one man's opinion.

Poppy D