No wayyyyy, co cant evarrrrr turbo a 3E... It will blow up instantly!!! The ONLY way to make the mad tyte jay dee emm powarr is with a 4EFTE, thats jay de emm you know. I know this for certain because Im an E-mechanic with no REAL experience.

haha ha .

Kidding of course, I think I was the only dude that had a turbo 3E.

Looks like a nice setup. I like the "sinktrap" mani. Should work tops.

Just take the coolant lines from the TB and use them... simple. Oh yeah. DONT thread a T fitting into the blok. It will break.... alot. Ask me how I know!

Looking good man! Cant wait to see the numbers.

 

Nice, stock engine? How much boost you planning on running?

 

i see failure but ok?good work kid.

 

So you had a boosted 3E then?

 

You guys are hilarious. Normally I'd take offense to the outlandish comments, but this is the 3E-E engine... With that said, yes it could blow up!

No worries, I'm a mechanic. I built my engine myself from the ground up, so if it does blow up, I can build another one for about $300.00. A set of new pistons with rings for a 3E-E is $68.00 including shipping and handling, and that's for oversize pistons. To get the block bored for the new pistons, it is $32.00 total at my machine shop down the road... No worries on blowing up engines!

I like 4EFTE's and all those other cool engines, but I'm more of an inventor, not a racer. I just want to see what I can do with my 3E-E because it's not very common, and it is challenging.

The engine in my car is not stock, its ultra high compression with a larger stage 3 custom ground cam. With the right timing and lots of fuel, I can run 8 lbs of boost with no problem. I've got 40,000 miles on my engine so far, and it has ran pretty good since I put it together. That's plenty of use if you ask me, and if I do blow it up, at least it got a good service life.

And as far as failure goes. I have a Megasquirt, and I Just installed 295cc Supra low ohm (faster response) fuel injectors. It idles really good even though the stock injectors were only 155cc. That will provide plenty of fuel all the way up to about 160hp. The mega squirt controls spark too, so I can keep my timing very modest so I don't blow anything up - if you use the factory timing curve for a NA engine, you'll blow it up instantly.

The 3E-E will be able to make 160hp no problem. I have heard of one other person making at least 160hp to the wheels with a stock 3E-E engine driven daily, so it will work fine. The engine has a long stroke which is perfect for turbo charging, because turbo charging makes the power stroke longer. It won't need to be revved to more than 5500rpm, so it's not going to blow up completely, just a little bit... :lol:

 

I can run 18 lbs of boost with no problem.

fixed it for ya

 

Ha ha, let the "haters" hate. I was told I couldnt boost my 3E either. Wrongo.

I cranked 12psi daily for like a year. Still wokred tops when I parted it out too. And its not like I babied it either, the rev limiter was a way of life in that car. Never mind that, you have MS.... all I ever had was a SAFC hack and 315s.:lol:

I DO love all the "e-mechanics" that pass on misinformation about things that they've never tried and have no experience with.

 

12 psi on a stock 3E?? That's a lot of boost for a stock NA engine, it seems. Not to doubt you, but my experience w/ turbo'd imports is with my brother's and his friends' Hondas, and I have yet to see the stock Honda engine that will reliably run anymore than 5psi. Even 8psi is enough to kill a B18 in 6 months or less. Obviously, a Toyota is not a Honda, so if it can hold up to it that's great, just sounds like a lot of boost in comparison. Toyota has always built tough engines.

SAFC and 315cc injectors? How did it idle? What did you do with the timing to keep it from detonating?

 

Hey Astro, thanks for the respect, and the good information. It is very rare to hear real true stories about boosted 3E engines, so that's good info. 12 PSI is damn good to have such good reliability so that gives me even more hope..

I spent this whole night trying to get my car to run with the 295cc injectors, it would idle fine, but getting it to revv up with all that extra fuel was pretty difficult. I had to scale down the fuel big time and now it runs about as good as stock. With more tuning (and the installation of my 2nd wideband, since my first LC-1 burned up instantly, I went with a new AEM) I'll be able to bolt on my turbocharger and tune for boost!

I'm holding off on the boost just yet because tuning the megasquirt is difficult with ZERO experience. I just want to get the car to a perfect running state, and that is at least a few days away.

Thanks again Astro! I liked the comments!

 

Regarding to my last comment about the oil inlet, i just thought it was too high because i always see it lower on the oil pan on turboed vehicles so i thought maybe it wouldnt get enough oil that high up, but if it works thats all that matters, its lookin better evertime you update, keep it up

 

I think you have the oil feed and the oil drain confused

 

Is there anything else holding the turbo in place besides the manifold?

The setup is looking good. I'm interested to see how it performs.

 

The ONLY thing I *might* do on your build is throw in a double thick Cometic headgasket. Only because you've got it built as a high comp engine it might not hurt to bring it down a bit. Even then, I would try it first and only change it if I had an issue.

I had my wastegate line burn off once. I dropped a gear and jammed it to pass on the highway...... 19psi blew that head gasket RIGHT out, ha ha ha.... I drove it the rest of the way to Toronto and home again (200km) with radically fluctuating temps. When I got home I put in a metal headgasket from a 1995 / 1999 and it was fine. Now THATS a tough ass engine right there.

Oh yeah..... AEM Wideband ?.?.?. holy smokes there Mr. Millionaire !!!! This is how I roll. http://www.14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm $115 and a bosch sensor. Straight ballin!

 

Wow thanks for telling me NOW after I already bought my stupid AEM!!!

I would have rather went with JAW!!! :disappoin

I thought all widebands were $250 OR MORE! I didn't know you could get one cheaper. The other DIY widebands from Australia cost a ton! Like $500 or more! I didn't know there were more DIY widebands on the market. I guess I should have researched it. Well I guess now I get to be a high roller, lol!! By the way, my car cost $200, the AEM was $270 I own a Tercel, so with the money I saved buying the car, I guess I should be able to justify a fancy turbo, a fancy aftermarket computer and some cool gauges... at least I hope I can justify it. Most people think I'm crazy... I'm starting to doubt myself! ha ha.



IF anyone here can provide an actual link to a site that sells metal head gaskets for the 3E-E I will buy one, or maybe even 2.

 

You are right, it's not good to compare a Honda engine to a Toyota. The 3E-E has a very low volumetric effeciency, so it's not filling the cylinders very full at high RPM, and it's not putting out very much power, even with some small modifications.

On the other hand, a 1.6 or 1.8L Honda starts out with 115hp and up, so with or without a turbo those engines are moving way more air and putting out more horsepower, so it's only logical to assume they might not last as long if your pushing them hard. The Honda's are also around 10:1 compression or more stock, aren't they?

Low performance engines appear to be very reliable when you add a turbocharger. The total performance is also less, so I guess that solves the mystery. :hammer:

Ok, did I mention I have a wideband controller, so I can check my fuel on the fly. :naughty: I can also tell the engine to run at a preset air/fuel ratio, and I can allow the wideband to adjust my fuel mixture while I drive, even at wide open throttle / full boost! I'll be able to get my fuel mixture dead on, and I have fully adjustable timing that I get to program, so I don't have to deal with any dangerous factory timing curve! :clap:

I don't know if I'll run more than 8 psi of boost for awhile because I've never tuned a computer from scratch, I want some experience first before I get over confident. I don't have a dyno or a knock detector, so the timing will be mostly by ear, so I need to play it safe.

 

One more question I meant to ask, then I'll stop hijacking your thread How strong are the axles in these cars? I'm assuming, since I have seen any mention of broken ones here yet that they are pretty tough, but you all know what ASSuming can get you

 

they are strong enough to have withstood multiple hard launches with me behind the wheel. mind you, i was on different R-compound tyres (i.e.; Yokohama A008R, A008RSII, BFG Comp T/A, BFG R1, Hoosiers, etc.). pretty much a drag race-type of start when participating in Pro Solo 2 events and even at any track events...one has to 'warm-up' the tyres sometimes...

 

Well... Someone else will need to answer this one. Personally, I don't *think* I'll ever break an axle because I have done at least 100 or more burnouts with terrrible wheel hop, with the entire car bouncing forward, it felt like something was going to break off. I highly doubt the turbocharger will load the axles much more than that. I *read somewhere* that if you control wheel hop, you stop the axles from excessive torque loading. But as far as a horsepower limit, I don't know.

 

congrats. looks like a decent set-up. i'm interested to see how this goes after a bit of daily driving duty. i'm NOT doubting, just interested.

and for those who doubt so damned much, bite me. seriously. if i listened to people like you my entire life, i would never have achieved much when i didn't know much. true-one has to learn (sometimes) by trial and error, but with the sheer number of 3E 'tuners' (sarcasm here) and manufacturers of quality go-fast parts supporting this car, there isn't much room for much of anyone to talk unless they (talkers) themselves have done the r&d (e.g.; leg-work) themselves.

kudos for taking the road less-traveled!

 

Thanks ToyotaTechGeek and Astro for the kind words and support, I really appreciate it.

Astro, since you were running 12 psi of boost, I am even more excited now. I had originally figured that 12 PSI was too much, but since you have first hand experience and I have the same fuel injectors (within 5 cc) than all is well, at least if I can nail down the tuning at least as good as you did. (As it turns out, my 295cc 7MGE low ohm injectors work great on my tercel, perfect idle, and they flow 317 cc @ 42 PSI, 2 psi more than the 315's.) So at least I know I'll be safe! The pulse width is ridiculous, they aren't even being utilized at all on my engine, they are WAY overkill for naturally aspirated.

I've been using "Autotune" in megasquirt, and I have to say, megasquirt is super easy to tune. I already have a perfectly good spark map with about 30 degrees total timing. I tuned it by using a Dodge SRT4 turbo spark map (easily uploaded to megasquirt in 2 seconds) and then I retarded the SRT4 spark map down about 7 degrees in some spots, so now no pinging and lots of driveability, just as good as stock, minus a few degrees for safety. As it turns out, making a fuel and spark map is the easiest part of the whole process, and of course I have always thought it would be a nightmare.

My fuel mixture runs at about 12.5 under load, and 16.5 cruise, which is pretty damn good, except there are a few points where it runs very rough and indicates at 10:1 mixture on the gauge, which I didn't even know was possible, I thought the engine would stall, but it doesn't, it just bogs a bit.

There is an 8 x 8 fuel table that asks you for the air fuel mixture you want at the specified engine RPM/vacuum. You just input the air fuel ratio you want, and the megasquirt automatically adjusts your fuel map while you drive, you can literally watch it adjusting the map. You can see a small computer cursor on the screen literaly moving around and adjusting the map as you drive, its creepy and mind blowing. I never knew something like this even existed, and now that I know how it works, I know it was worth EVERY penny buying a megasquirt... Forget video games, this is way way too much fun!

Now I gotta work on my starting... my engine drives perfect, but starts worse than ever, with violent pinging when it first starts, and sometimes it chugs and doesn't even get idling properly for 5 seconds or so, and sometimes it just starts and sputters and dies. There is so many settings, I haven't figure it all out yet... Time should fix it.

:clap:

 

Wow... mabey I should got MS..... Frickin autotuning, thats baller right thur.

I was just totally affraid of having to tune from scratch, hence I got the AEM F/IC piggyback. It has some limitations, but for $390 shipped to my door I cant complain.

As far as startup....Maybe check the timing at full vac at idle, or if there a "cold start" circut. IT sounds to me like it just getting WAY too much advance.. Can you compare the low end of the SRT map vs. the one you initially had.?

As far as the metal headgasket...... Just buy them from teh dealer. Order one for a 1995 - 1999 Tercel. Done deal.... and cheap.

You should be able to rock 12psi no worries. I was asking GT_REVVA about running 20psi on my 5SFE Camry... He thought it should be cool with conservative timing and 11.5 AFRs. Im guessing similar AFRs should be good for high boost on your setup. Shit, on my Tercel all I had was an autometer A/F gauge (weaksauce) and my shit didnt blow up, ha ha ha.

 

Oh yeah.....



VIDS OR BAN....

we need ripper vids ASAP..

Dirty thirds FTW...

lets see some snakes!

P.S. do you have a proper tach cluster yet. If no, Ive got one with the proper Tercel tach (no, not a paseo cluster) with a 150 MPH speedo in it... if you're interested.

 

I think you guys have me wrong, I'm not trying to hate on you or nay-say you, just making sure I understand you right. I'm thinking of turboing mine (against all my friends' advice ) and am just getting all the info I can. When you're stuffing almost double the normal amount of air into an engine, it's real easy to blow crap up. I know, I've burned a hole slam through a piston ring land on the engine that was in my GLHS when I got it, and that was built for boost from the factory.

That's why I was asking about the axles, cause I figured they would be the weak link. I had bad wheel hop on my first two launches at the track last time, and was a little worried about them. I have the same turbo supermuble does sitting in the shop (IHI turbo from a Probe), and have access to metal and welding equipment, plus do all my own work, so I could turbo my Tercel really easy. Tuned right, it would get the same mileage or better and have probably close to double the horsepower when needed.

 

UPDATE!

The Tercel runs damn near PERFECT on the Megasquirt. You need to shut OFF dwell control, otherwise you will get HORRIBLE excessive spark advance while cranking, and the Bosch module I'm using controls dwell all by its self, so I don't need need dwell control with megasquirt. It is very simple and I accidently had it set wrong! I also *accidently* had my revv limiter set to 5300 RPMS (spark retard @ 5300RPMS) so my top end power was way down. Now that's its fixed the car flys.... I'd say I'm well over 100hp now total, about 5 or 7 hp more than the stock ECU. The car pulls way past 6,000 rpm now, I had no idea it could do it so well. When you free rev it, it sounds like a BEAST, i mean, so awesome I can't even believe it... It just doesn't sound right, it sounds way meaner than any 4 cylinder I've heard. I also went through and set all the valves for 1 hour so they are perfectly set, no more ticking, just smooth clean revvs!

Now the engine starts in half a second, turn key, just like stock. *Though* when it's cold, I have it set too rich, with the larger supra injectors, I have to simply take 2 minutes and expirement with "COLD START ENRICHMENT, AND CRANKING PULSEWIDTH" to get it to start better.

On Megasquirt you tell the computer how many Miliseconds (ms) you want the injectors to open up for during cranking. A small change makes it start easier, so you expiriment for a few minutes until it starts. Too much (ms) on the injector opening time, and you flood your engine, then you got to hold the pedal to the floor to start it. It sounds hard, but its definitely not. Still the most fun I've ever had playing around with a car!!!!! Mega squirt rocks!

Hey what does this mean?

"VIDS OR BAN....

we need ripper vids ASAP..

Dirty thirds FTW...

lets see some snakes!



I read it a few times, but couldn't figure it out. I might sound stupid, but are you looking for videos of the car running good?

HOW much for the factory Tach and Speedometer cluster???


BTW since my tuning is so close now, and since my car starts good, I can put the turbo on this weekend! In 1 or 2 weeks we will have the results, first i need to take it slow and tune for boost before I blow it up... I will let auto tune help me with that!!!!

 

VIDS or BAN hes sayin he wants to see some videos, ripper vids- burnouts ripping through gears, dirty thirds FTW- BURNOUT IN THIRD GEAR lol

 

let's see some snakes = black tire marks down the road.

 

Good motivation guys! I will be DESTROYING the tires.. I mean absolutely OBLITERATING them, since they are junkyard tires that are 4 years old, and they were $12.00 each and I've been too stupid, and too RETARDED, and too idiotic to replace them. I am going to DESTROY them when I put the turbo on. A video of this, I will do, that's for sure! LOL

I've been needing an excuse for new tires for awhile...:lol:

I took my friend for a ride today. He has never seen stand alone management before. I showed him all the settings in mega squirt and he was really impressed. He has no computer skills at all and he was convinced of putting Mega squirt on his Chevy truck.

You guys will like this. On Megasquirt, you simply hook up your lap top, open Megatune (the tuning software) and then you go to the menu and select "Datalog, Record." When you drive, it just starts recording everything, but it doesn't show any special program on the screen, it just looks normal, you don't need to push any buttons or do anything special. When you close down the tuning program, it automatically saves the file.

You use a program called "MSTweak3000." You open up the recorded datalog file, and the program generates a brand new fuel map based on the settings. You upload the new fuel map to Megasquirt, and your tuning is 95% done..... This is even faster than trying to use "autotune" while driving, or trying to fight with the fuel curve yourself.... Amazing how simple this is!!!

The turbo is going on this weekend! It will take me 8 or 12 hours to finish my turbo downpipe, but I am going to do it!!!! I am determined!!! :hammer:

Thanks again for all the motivation!!!

 

Nice dude, can't wait to see some vids. How's the fuel mileage now, or have you noticed?

 

Cant wait for vids.

You make MS sound SOOOOOOOO easy, ha ha ha.

Il have to let you know how the AEM works out.

 

Sorry I must have missed something. Astro are you getting an AEM UEGO like mine?

Man, AEM is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned. For the small inaccuracy it might have compared to an LC-1 it is much much easier to hook up, it works all the time, no resets or weird problems and the wiring isn't critical at all, they don't tell you it will FAIL if you use the wrong ground, etc. The LC-1 should be considered for people who are experts at tuning and who are competetive. Personally, I think the LC-1 wide band kit is ABSOLUTELY NOT for average street tuners!

Megasquirt *is* really really easy. You have to have working computer knowledge, because you need to do a lot of stuff with the lap top, like making new folders to save settings. You have to know how to rename a file. If you cannot create a new folder in windows, or rename a file in windows, then you have no business using Megasquirt. But if you have basic computer knowledge, it's very very easy.